Green Diamond Traction (Snow) Tires

[jason07-1zzfe]

Interesting. I'm not looking for an all season tire. I don't believe there is such a thing. But I do want a snow tire that is still decent in wet and ok in dry.
The website does not work...

 

[Bill J.]

Sorry about that. I found out a couple of days ago it has changed to "greendiamondna.com" then you can scroll down to various dealers through the U.S.

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

I like the carbide granules idea (wonder why no one else does it though? )
But I really am not comfortable putting my life in the hands of a "remolded" tire.

 

[Bill J.]

Jason, I was suspicious of the tire also, stumbling across them on a website. I communicated by phone over a period of time with the gentleman who started the internet sales of the tire.

Mike Bednorski started greendiamonddirect.com. He believed in the future of internet sales for the tire, and he believed in these tires. He had been using them for a couple of years on his own vehicles in Wisconsin and throughout the Upper Peninsula with real good results.

Mike was a former computer engineer for Weyerhauser Corp in Wisconsin. He passed away in his sleep as a young man a couple months back, leaving a wife and two children.

I started off early this summer with one set on the turbo, and ran like hell all summer. The results were great.

Now after two snow episodes and the usual aftermath, the technology has won me over. We have sets on 3 family vehicles. Two sets of 195-65-15's and a set of 205-55-16's.

The tires are manufactured in Sweden, and they meet tough European standards and a tougher German standard.

The "remanufactured" doesn't scare me, they start off with high quality innards and build the tire up just like a new tire.

They were originally conceived as and used for an "ice racing" tire, in Iceland, and then the technology was applied for regular tire usage. They found out the tires were quieter than "snow" tires and they performed well. They have mandates against the damage caused by studded tires in parts of northern europe and this tire, and others met the challenge.

This year, Nokian Tyres through an arrangement with the Green Diamond people, manufacture Nokian tires with the Green Diamond technology. The catch is - they only sell those Nokians in Europe. They are not available here.

I got the last set from Twin Tier tire in New York State, as they filled in after the sudden passing of Mike Bednorski.

There is a dealer in Wisconsin (see the website) and they can ship a set of four for about $27.00 to Illinois.

Visit the website and cruise around on it. It answered many of my questions.

I am not affiliated with them, nor do I derive any benefit from touting this brand. I think I found a true ALL season tire that can handle winter action here in the snowbelt.

 

[Bill J.]

Jason, Green Diamond dealers are found all throughout Scandanavia and Northern Europe. I don't think they would be popular if they didn't work. Ya sure.

 

[Bror Jace]

Jason, why haven’t I bothered with Nokian's compromise tire? Because I don’t like compromises. In the winter, I want the knobbiest, most aggressive tread pattern available on the thinnest tire width approved for my car. That’s the formula for traction in ice & snowy conditions. Don’t believe me? Just look at the tires the World Rally Championship cars (with 300 horsepower) use in the Swedish Rally (coming in February) As I indicated before, my next set may even have studs as they are legal in these parts.

You are correct in stating that dedicated snow tires squirm and scrub a great deal on dry pavement. I just know that from December through March, I have to make do with a little less dry pavement traction and I tailor my driving accordingly. The alternative might be a tire which handles better in the dry, but won’t give me the absolutely best traction available when driving home from work in snow storms or driving home 40+ miles from a friend’s house at 1:00AM. It’s such a great feeling not being fearful of the weather or limited by it I have dodged more winter accidents (people crashing all around me) in the last ten years than I care to remember. Much of this is due to the traction of my snow tires which allows me to stop shorter and/or steer around other motorists who have taken to waltzing with guardrails.

You said you don’t believe there is such a thing as an “all-season” tire? I agree, but take the concept to an even more extreme degree.

BillJ, you’ll have to forgive my nearly dysfunctional level of skepticism. I’d like to see, though, some independent testing which shows the Green Diamond tires competing favorably with the better-known brands. I’m like 2533a, it’ll take an act of Congress to get me to part with my tried and true Hakkas.

For the first couple of years after their introduction, people were swearing by Bridgestone Blizzaks … until people tried to use them after they reached the several thousand mile mark. The effectiveness of the first generation of this tire fell off rapidly during the second or third seasons. I hear the newest version (introduced 2-3 years ago?

) performs much better over the life of the tire.

If you have a link which shows some independent Green Diamond testing, however, please post it.

--- Bror Jace

 

[Bill J.]

Bror, I can understand what you a trying to say.

Green Diamond makes several different tread patterns/versions of their tires, including truck tires. Some of the patterns have very aggressive tread and are designed for the toughest conditions.

On their website, they quote a New York City cabdriver who thought they were the best tires he ever had for his cab. Imagine that - in the middle of congested New York. The cabdriver was impressed with the fact that they were the only tires that didn't loose traction over the slippery painted traffic stripes in the street.

We need better performance than that.

In our particular application in Chicago, we never know what to expect. Some years driving on a nearly bald tire could get you through the winter. I'm sure we always see some fools that do just that but we certainly don't.

Other years we've had heavy snow, repeatedly, and you need good snow traction for months. In our case, the late Mike Bednorski of Wisconsin recommended the "Icelander" version of their tire. He personally used this version in central & northern Wisconsin and the Upper peninsula of Michigan for a couple of years and he said they met his needs, and he was sure they would meet mine. And they were considered the "all-season" version of the Green Diamond line of tires.

We have this version on three of our RWD vehicles. Two of them had these these tires mounted throughout the summer. They were great. They behave like a well made performance tire. They wear like a normal tire. They are not wimpy.

They proved in the last weeks that they can handle snow, ice and slippery conditions better than any of the previously mentioned tires that we have used. Not only do they perform much better in snow, but traction on slippery ice is unbelievable. I didn't know a rubber tire was capable of such traction, and that includes stopping. I can only imagine it is the carbide "diamonds" sticking out of the tread. No other manufacturer has this feature. That I believe is the key.

Now if....we lived in the Grand Tetons we'd have a separate dedicated set of snow tires with a very aggressive snow tread. We've been there in May (couple years back) and could have used dedicated snow tires way up in the mountains. They have four seasons there too - June, July, August and Winter. Having experienced the Green Diamond technology I would find a dealer to ship me a set of one of their other versions, a dedicated aggressive snow tire.

No other company has this technology that I am aware of. The tire works like no other that I have experienced.

People like us needing winter traction tires research every year what tire manufacturers have to offer. Bridgestone came up with Blizzaks, accidently, by entraining too much air into a batch of rubber. They practically gave the tires away and later found they were "onto" something - the tires had hidden properties. Other makers tweak tread designs, market specially improved embedded compounds, "new and improved" blah, blah, blah. Show me the diamonds, that's what cuts it.

Spend some time cruisin on their website and read everything you can about these tires. They aren't lyin. It sure ain't false advertising.

We're not sure what lubricants are right for our vehicles. Thats why we appreciate, share information and enjoy this site. I do know this tire technology works the best for me.

 

[Bill J.]

Independent Testing of Green Diamond tires

Swedish Road and Transportation Institute (VTI)
One of only 2 ISO Certified facilities for testing snow tires in the world.

http://www.greendiamondna.com/testresults.html

 

[2533a]

Bill J.,

Thanks for the link to the website. I'm intrigued by the concept of the carbide granules and two of the tread patterns on the snow tires on the site look pretty aggressive. What is very interesting to me though is that no Nokian Hakkas were tested against the Green Diamond Tire. That in and of itself speaks volumes to me.

 

[Bror Jace]

Jason: ”I think we must live in different climates then. I know about snow tire sizing. Mine are still stock size though, which isn't very wide anyway (195/65-14). I don't think the NRW is a compromise tire, it is just designed for different applications. It may be marketed as "all-season" in the US ... but in Europe, it is marketed as a winter only tire for Alpine conditions. Majority of the times the roads are clear here and if not, they will be very soon.”

Yes, 10 years ago, I lived in Lombard, IL. People from around here told me that I was gonna be “in for it” when I’d have to deal with a Chicago winter. What a joke. This area (Upstate NY) gets at least double, if not triple the snow fall.

When I was in Chicagoland, I got by with two (2) mediocre BF Goodrich Winter T/As on fairly wide rims. Around here, using only two snow tires is a recipe for trouble.

If you live in a southern portion of Illinois, you’ll get even less of the bad stuff. So, I can see why a tire like the NRW is what you’d be looking for.

My summer size is 185/60HR14 … but I have them on 6” alloys so they are wider than usual with a stiff shoulder. My stock (painted) steelies are 175/70R13 … on 13” x 5” rims. Big difference with the dedicated snow tire on skinny, steel wheels.

Go to the following website: http://www.nokiantires.com/indexen.html and check the drop down menu for “Nokian Comparison.” You’ll see a spiderweb graph showing the different Nokian tires compared against each other and the amount of snow & ice grip given up by going with the NRW as opposed to a more single purpose tire like a studded Hakka 1 or the Hakka Q. Conversely, the graph shows the dry and simply wet grip advantage of the NRWs.

To sum it all up, Anywhere in IL, you can get away with a much less aggressive set-up in the winter. In this area, we get more snow and the back roads can stay slippery for a day or more.

Bill J, you’ve given me some to look at and think about … but I’m a hard sell. Since my current tires are good until spring, I don’t have to make up my mind on a replacement set for another 10 or 11 months.

--- Bror Jace

 

[Bill J.]

Bror, What do they call those ice storms up there in New Hampshire, noreasters or....?

I know you get a lot more snow and I would have a separate set. Do you miss the old homeland?

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

Bror, Good points, but I think we must live in different climates then. I know about snow tire sizing. Mine are still stock size though, which isn't very wide anyway (195/65-14). I don't think the NRW is a compromise tire, it is just designed for different applications. It may be marketed as "all-season" in the US (most Americans must not be used to real dry and wet traction a true summer tire gives, given how prevalent the "all-season" crap tires are). But in Europe it is marketed as a winter only tire for Alpine conditions.
Majority of the times roads are clear here and if not, they will be very soon.
And with the Yokohama AVS I have, you would have to have a death wish to drive them in the winter. ANY amount of snow and there is zero traction. Not to mention they harden up and loose some traction at low temps. I think my snow tires actually have better raw grip on dry pavement when its very cold.
So I guess my point is I don't want to use some crazy balls out snow tire for 4months in anticipation of maybe one night when the roads are heavily covered in snow. More common are wet roads and slush.
And actually I am just reading that it is being replaced by the WR. Supposed to have better snow traction, slush planing and wet traction. So I'll probably be using those, but I think I have another year out of the Dunlop at least.
Oh another thing is the H speed rating. The others are only rated to about 80mph and I do a fair amount of highway driving through winter and 99.9% of time it will be dry or wet. I hate having to drive 75mph so I dont overheat my tires

Although there probably is a good amount of fudge factor in those ratings and are likely good higher I don't want to take chances with something like that.
edit:Sorry, Q rating is 99mph, but sometimes if road is clear I like to cruise up there...

[ December 06, 2002, 12:10 PM: Message edited by: Jason Troxell ]

 

[Bror Jace]

Bill J, storms which travel up the coast are called "Noreasters."

No, I don't miss the western suburbs too much. I only lived there for 18 months. I prefer the Northeast, for better or worse.

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

That's cool, so you know exactly how it is then. Out here I've lived in Schaumburg, Oak Park, and now Lockport . And if you are getting that much snow, I wouldn't consider the NRW either!