Great Article on GM/Daewoo Engineering

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Nov 16, 2002
Messages
37,903
Location
NJ
GM, Hit by $3 Billion Loss, Leans on Daewoo's Engineering Skill
2005-08-29 21:27 (New York)

By Jeff Green, Alan Katz and John Lippert

Aug. 30 (Bloomberg)-- In General Motors Corp.'s most
efficient automobile engineering center, technicians in tan and
brown jackets measure the dimensions of metal car bodies with
beams of laser light as thin as the lead of a pencil.
The lab isn't based at GM's Detroit headquarters; it's a
five-story edifice that's part of a square-mile complex of worn
brick and concrete buildings in the Bupyung district of Inchon,
South Korea, located 15 miles (24 kilometers) southwest of Seoul
and hidden in a maze of identical white apartment towers that
reach to the horizon in all directions.
GM got the Bupyung complex when it paid creditors of
bankrupt Daewoo Motor Co. $251 million in 2002 -- a deal that
Ford Motor Co. had passed up. Today, GM says that Bupyung
engineers, who design, build and test prototype cars, are 20
percent more efficient than their U.S. counterparts. They also
work for half of the $85,000 annual pay of Detroit engineers and
toil nights and weekends.
The techniques they design for building $9,995 subcompact
cars are so precise that GM, the world's largest automaker by
sales, says it will adapt them to the $45,000 sport utility
vehicles it will sell next year in North America to take full
advantage of the GM-Daewoo union.
``It was a marriage made in heaven,'' says Michael Robinet,
an analyst at CSM Worldwide in Farmington Hills, Michigan. ``GM
needed low-cost development capabilities in Asia, and Daewoo
needed stability and an external market.''

Junk-Bond Status

GM Chief Executive Officer Rick Wagoner, 52, whose company
tumbled to junk-bond status in May as it discounted cars in the
U.S. as much as 29 percent to clear bloated inventories, is
relying more on overseas factories such as Bupyung to boost sales
abroad.
GM's North American auto business, hemorrhaging cash, had a
loss of $2.98 billion in the first half of 2005 to cap a
miserable five years in which the company's stock plunged 71
percent.
GM cars made with Daewoo, sold as Chevrolet Aveos, became
the best-selling subcompacts in the U.S. in the first half of
this year, surpassing Hyundai Motor Co.'s Accent. The Aveo also
contributed to sales gains in Korea, China and Europe.
``GM Daewoo is like a seed that they've planted and that
they're germinating,'' says Wil Stith, a portfolio manager at MTB
Investment Advisors in Baltimore, who helps manage about $2
billion in fixed-income assets, including GM debt. ``The future
growth for GM is definitely in Asia.''

$3 Billion Investment

By the middle of 2006, GM will have invested $3 billion into
GM Daewoo Auto & Technology Co., the Inchon-based company that
controls the plant and runs the engineering center, GM's third-
largest among 11 worldwide, says Nick Reilly, 55, GM Daewoo's
CEO.
By 2012, the Asia-Pacific region may be as important to GM
as the U.S. or Europe, Reilly says. GM must make that a reality
to avoid plunging into a profitless pit by decade's end, says
John Casesa, a Merrill Lynch & Co. auto analyst in New York.
``Capitalizing on growth in Asia through Daewoo is essential if
GM is to achieve a profitable mix of businesses,'' Casesa says.
``They can't do it by just cutting costs in North America.''
GM now considers GM Daewoo the company's leader in
engineering the alignment of metal body parts, a process that
makes cars sturdier, more responsive and more attractive to
buyers, says Mike McGarry, 51, GM's Warren, Michigan-based
executive director of vehicle bodies.
The company is studying ways to adopt GM Daewoo's methods
for making hoods, fenders and headlights join in a radius of 2
millimeters (0.08 inch), one-third of the 6 millimeters on past
GM models, McGarry says.

`Jewellike Features'

``Some of the jewellike features that GM Daewoo executed, we
spent time trying to learn exactly how they do that and how to
apply that learning to our programs in North America,'' he says.
The better alignment may help sell as many as 300,000
redesigned versions of GM's largest SUVs in North America during
2006, says Michael Bruynesteyn, an analyst at Prudential
Securities Inc. in New York. A sleeker look and better handling
will help the company avoid losing sales as it reduces its
average discount of $5,860 by an estimated $3,000 next year,
Bruynesteyn says.
GM has yet to announce discounts on the Chevrolet Tahoe and
Cadillac Escalade full-size SUVs. GM will give financial analysts
their first look tomorrow at trucks and SUVs that will replace
models such as the Chevrolet Suburban next year, in a
multibillion-dollar gamble that Americans paying record high
gasoline prices still want large trucks.

$51 Billion in Revenue

The current models generate about $51 billion in revenue a
year, according to Burnham Securities Inc. analyst David Healy --
more than the sales at three-fourths of the companies in the
Standard & Poor's 500 Index.
The automaker had said little about the new trucks, known
internally as the GMT900 line and which include the GMC Sierra
pickup and Escalade and Tahoe SUVs. GM has claimed that they will
be more fuel efficient than the models of pickups and SUVs they
replace. The U.S. price for a gallon of regular unleaded gasoline
reached $2.612 a gallon last week.
GM discounted nine of its 76 North American models more than
20 percent in July, led by the 29.6 percent price cut on the Saab
9-2X, according to Santa Monica, California-based Edmunds.com,
which tracks automaker incentives for consumers. Carmakers don't
release rebate data.
The discounts helped push down revenue 2.9 percent to $94.3
billion in the first half of 2005.

DaimlerChrysler

GM shares fell 15 percent to $34.04 in the year through Aug.
29 compared with a 19 percent gain in DaimlerChrysler AG stock
and a 0.3 percent advance in the Standard & Poor's 500 Index.
GM shares peaked at $93.63 on April 28, 2000, and closed at
$26.75 on April 28, 2005.
Standard & Poor's cut GM's rating on $196 billion of debt to
BB, two levels below investment grade, on May 5. The spread on
GM's 8.375 percent bonds maturing in 2033 widened to 519 basis
points more than comparable U.S. Treasuries on Aug. 9 from 302
basis points on Dec. 31. A basis point is 0.01 percentage point.
``The sooner GM can use investments like Daewoo to develop
overseas manufacturing and bring the lower costs inherent in that
to bear in North America, the better,'' says Scott Colbert, who
helps manage $7 billion, including GM bonds, at Commerce Bank
Investment Management in St. Louis.
GM Daewoo produced about one in 10 of the vehicles GM sold
worldwide in the first half of 2005, limiting the company's
losses in its auto production outside North America to $94
million. In the first half, sales of GM Daewoo-built Chevrolets
rose 67 percent in China and 22 percent in Southeast Asian
nations such as Thailand.

Aveo Sales

Sales of the Aveo gained 66 percent in the U.S. to 35,245.
That made it the country's best-selling subcompact, cars that are
less than 14 feet (4.3 meters) long, according to CSM Worldwide.
Subcompacts account for 1.2 percent of the 17.2 million vehicles
sold in the U.S.
GM needs GM Daewoo to succeed because GM devotes fewer of
its resources to engineering than its rivals, Casesa says. GM
allocates 8 percent of its total revenue to capital spending and
research, less than the 10.5 percent for Toyota City, Japan-based
Toyota Motor Corp.
GM will redesign or replace 64 percent of its U.S. vehicle
fleet from 2006 to 2009, less than the 90 percent for Toyota,
Casesa says.
GM first formed a joint venture with Daewoo Motor in 1978
and abandoned it 14 years later amid concern that Daewoo Group
founder Kim Woo Choong was taking on too much debt. Daewoo was
Korea's second-largest group of industrial businesses, including
shipbuilding, electronics and financial services as well as cars.

Cheap Korean Assets

Daewoo eventually failed in auto manufacturing because Kim
used debt to build 14 new or joint venture factories in overseas
countries such as China, India and Poland before attracting
customers for his cars, Reilly says.
Automakers around the world started buying cheap Korean
assets after July 1997, when Thailand scrapped its policy of
pegging its currency to the U.S. dollar, a change that forced
Indonesia, Malaysia and the Philippines to follow.
South Korea agreed to a $57 billion international bailout
organized by the International Monetary Fund in December 1997. GM
entered into negotiations to buy Daewoo in 1998 under then
Chairman John F. Smith. Kim fled the country in 1999.
In 2000, DaimlerChrysler took a 10 percent stake in Seoul-
based Hyundai, the country's largest automaker. Renault SA, based
in Boulogne-Billancourt, France, took a 70 percent stake in the
automobile division of Seoul-based Samsung Group.

Ford Offer Withdrawn

Ford offered $6.9 billion for Daewoo in June 2000 and
withdrew its offer three months later after examining the
company's books. DaimlerChrysler, based in Stuttgart, Germany,
sold its 10 percent stake in Hyundai last year.
GM's talks with Daewoo dragged on because Smith and then
President Wagoner said at the time they needed to assess the
value of the assets, including the Bupyung plant. As GM
negotiated in March 2001 to buy bankrupt Daewoo Motor, then
Korea's second-largest automaker, labor activists protested job
cuts by attacking GM's office in Seoul with fire bombs.
A month earlier, hundreds of union workers had clashed with
riot police outside the gates of the Bupyung complex.
In November 2002, GM and Suzuki Motor Corp., the Hamamatsu,
Japan-based automaker in which GM owns a 20 percent stake, along
with joint venture partner Shanghai Automotive Industry Corp. of
Shanghai and a group of Korean banks, paid a combined $1.17
billion for most of Daewoo's assets.

Shanghai Automotive

For its $251 million, GM received 42.1 percent of the
company. Today, GM has 50.9 percent, Suzuki owns 11 percent and
Shanghai Automotive holds 9.9 percent.
Kim returned to Seoul in June 2005, at age 68, to seek
treatment for an ailing heart. Korean prosecutors indicted him
two weeks later for exaggerating the group's assets by 41
trillion won ($39.8 billion) and borrowing 10 trillion won on the
basis of the inaccurate accounting.
In surrendering to authorities, Kim said in a statement: ``I
am solely responsible for Daewoo Group's inability to overcome
the financial crisis. I will accept the appropriate
consequences.''
The only assets at the Bupyung complex that GM doesn't yet
own are two Daewoo vehicle assembly buildings, though the
automaker controls the processes and has installed equipment
developed at the nearby GM Daewoo engineering center.
GM upgraded the assembly buildings because it had committed
to buying them from Daewoo Inchon, plant manager Han Ik Soo says.

Assembly Lines

GM Daewoo says it plans to buy the assembly lines, which are
already operating like other GM factories worldwide, by the end
of the year.
The only difference has been that GM has paid Daewoo Inchon
to assemble the cars.
GM's steady investment in the engineering center and in the
manufacturing buildings has encouraged assembly employees to
cooperate with GM management, Reilly says.
Productivity on the Bupyung assembly line that makes the
Aveo has climbed 21 percent to 18.6 hours per vehicle this year
from 2000, Han says.
Each morning at the complex, located in the same city as the
Inchon International Airport that serves Seoul, the assembly
plant employees who build GM Daewoo cars spend 15 minutes
brushing off their work areas before the assembly line starts.
Han sweeps the sidewalk near the main entrance with a 2-foot-wide
straw broom.
``Every leader should set an example like this,'' Han, 57,
says. ``Human beings cannot change other human beings directly by
shouting at them.''

Only 34 Westerners

Bupyung and GM Daewoo headquarters have 9,400 workers. The
complex employs only 34 Westerners like Reilly, a native of North
Wales in the U.K. who was transferred to Seoul in 2001 from GM's
Vauxhall Motors Holdings Ltd. in Luton, England.
A few steps away from the assembly building, GM runs the
engineering site, its most complete product development center in
Asia. Its prototype assembly shops, crash test center,
metallurgical lab and metal boxes for testing cars in freezing
temperatures and searing heat are all located in one building, up
or down a few flights of stairs from each other.
The engineering center can design safety upgrades such as
adding air bags to a car model in three to five months, as little
as one-third of GM's global average of nine months to a year.
Employees put in hours beyond their shifts to complete
projects, Reilly says, while making half the pay of workers in
Detroit. While GM wouldn't disclose U.S. salaries for engineers,
David Cole, chairman of the Center for Automotive Research in Ann
Arbor, Michigan, says it averages about $85,000 a year.

`Nights and Weekends'

``They work nights and weekends because they know that every
day they're missing is a missed day of sales,'' Reilly says.
When taking part in collaborative projects, GM Daewoo
engineers sometimes grow frustrated that their counterparts in
Detroit don't respond faster to questions, he says.
The engineering center maintained its technical edge even
after almost half of the workforce left during the bankruptcy,
says Sohn Dong Youn, 48, who runs the prototype engineering area.
The most important innovation, learned from studying automakers
in Japan and Europe, lies in the metal fixtures of various sizes
the engineers design and make to clamp metal body panels in place
while cars are welded, he says.
Bupyung makes fixtures to hold metal body panels in only one
position, Sohn says. Most other GM clamping devices around the
world allow so much variation that the engineers have to come up
with tools to measure the fixtures as well as design them.

Like a Mantra

``Here, there is no checking of fixtures,'' Sohn says often,
almost like a mantra. ``No checking of fixtures.''
In the engineering center, Sohn uses lasers to measure 1,300
surface locations around prototype cars for PIST, or percentage
of important points that satisfy tolerances.
As a result of the engineering, 90 percent of surface
locations at Bupyung typically fall within prescribed tolerances,
more than the 87 percent for automakers in Europe and just behind
the 92 percent for car companies in Japan, Sohn says, citing GM
data. In North America, which uses a different measuring system,
85 percent of surface locations fall within prescribed
tolerances, according to Sohn.
The engineering precision makes small cars feel more solid
and control better, says McGarry, the GM executive director. GM
says that helped GM Daewoo boost sales 18.8 percent to 507,900
cars worldwide in the first six months of 2005, more than three
times GM's global growth rate of 5.3 percent to 4.7 million.
GM Daewoo had a loss of $100 million last year as the
company expanded and improved plants, Reilly says.

Central to Future

GM Daewoo sold about 10 percent of its cars under the GM
Daewoo brand, which it uses only in Korea. The company sold 70
percent of its cars as Chevrolets in the U.S., Europe and markets
that GM considers central to its future, including Brazil, China,
Poland, Russia and Thailand.
The Aveo leads its sales category in the U.S. because it's a
solid model for the relatively low price of less than $10,000.
It's also popular in an emerging economy like China where it's
considered a standard family car, says Fritz Henderson, 46,
chairman of GM in Europe, who oversaw GM Daewoo when he was head
of the company's Asia-Pacific unit from 2002 to 2004.
GM sold 1.06 million vehicles in Europe in the first half of
2005, an increase of 2.3 percent from a year earlier. Chevrolet
sales rose 25 percent in the period to 117,000 vehicles on
increased demand in Central and Eastern Europe and as Korean-
built Chevrolets were introduced in Russia.

First Quarterly Profit

From April through June, GM Daewoo cars contributed to GM
Europe's making its first quarterly profit, $37 million, in five
years. The profit excluded a $126 million charge to cut as many
as 12,000 jobs.
GM Daewoo also provided a pipeline of small cars, allowing
Wagoner to sell in February a 10 percent stake he had taken in
Turin, Italy-based Fiat SpA's auto unit in 2000, the Center for
Automotive Research's Cole says.
As part of the sale, GM paid $2 billion to end an agreement
that could have forced it to buy the rest of Fiat's auto unit.
``GM Daewoo is turning out to be a real gem,'' Cole says.
Alois Chassot agrees. The salesman in an organic food store
in Chambery, in the French Alps, bought a red Chevy Kalos built
in Korea for 10,100 euros ($12,355) in July.
Chassot, 23, says he bought the car partly because Chevrolet
included at no charge an engine that runs on either liquefied
petroleum gas or gasoline; such engines usually cost 2,800 euros
extra. He'll also get a 1,525-euro tax credit from the French
government for buying a ``low-pollution'' car.

`The Chevrolet Brand'

``The Chevrolet brand really reassures me,'' Chassot says.
``I know they build a lot of four-by-fours. It gives me more
confidence to have that name on there rather than a Korean name
like Daewoo, even if I know that's silly.''
In June, GM and Shanghai Automotive opened a factory in
Shanghai to assemble 160,000 Buick Excelle sedans annually from
kits of parts provided by GM Daewoo. GM Daewoo also wants to buy
or build an assembly plant in India, Reilly says.
In total, GM Daewoo expects to sell 1.5 million vehicles
annually by 2008, more than the 1.05 million projected for this
year and the 405,673 sold in 2002, the year GM took over, Reilly
says. To accommodate this growth, the company has increased its
engineering staff in Bupyung by 43 percent, to 2,000, and expects
to hire 300 more engineers in coming months.
To maintain this pace, GM Daewoo needs to learn about making
big cars from GM. Next year, GM Daewoo plans to introduce its
first-ever SUV, with a four-wheel-drive design that GM gave to GM
Daewoo, Reilly says.

Auto Designer

GM also assigned an auto designer to GM Daewoo, which like
other Korean automakers had tended to rely on a contract design
house from Italy.
Dave Lyons, GM's executive director of Asia-Pacific design,
says his job in Seoul is to help transform Chevrolet, along with
the excitement of 1970s-era muscle-car models like the Chevelle,
into a brand with global resonance.
``Chevrolet is the main growth brand for China, and most of
the products will be developed here,'' Lyons, 36, says.
In July, GM designated Bupyung as the lead engineering
center for its next generation of Opel and Chevrolet subcompacts.
Global sales may total 800,000 annually, Reilly says.
Bupyung is also building prototypes for a small, front-wheel-
drive SUV for sale in Korea next year. Derivatives of this SUV
may one day be sold in the U.S., Europe and China under GM's
Cadillac, Chevrolet, Pontiac, Saab and Saturn nameplates, with
global sales topping 600,000 by 2010, CSM Worldwide's Robinet
says.
Corporate raider Kirk Kerkorian said on May 4 he was
increasing his GM stake to 7.2 percent of the company's stock.

Cash Consumption

His presence and GM's cash consumption are putting pressure
on GM's management to improve, Casesa says.
The company's automotive unit will burn through $4.6 billion
in cash during 2005, Casesa says. That compares with Chief
Financial Officer John Devine's initial prediction in January of
$2 billion in positive cash flow for the year.
Kerkorian, 88, can prod the company's management to cut
North American costs, says David Giroux, an analyst at Baltimore-
based T. Rowe Price Group Inc., which owns 4 million GM shares.
Not all investors share that optimism. Philadelphia-based
Delaware Investments, which has about $100 billion in assets,
sold 1.9 million GM shares during the second quarter after
spending five years acquiring the stock.
High gasoline prices may lower demand for GM's full-size
SUV, even as Japanese automakers such as Toyota boost sales, says
Jim Wright, an analyst at Delaware Management.
Lee Iacocca, former chairman of Auburn Hills, Michigan-based
Chrysler Corp., says GM is just emerging from an era in which the
company was dominated by so-called bean counters, executives who
can keep track of money but can't build cars.
``The great engineers at GM were sort of junior varsity,''
Iacocca, 80, says.
To help change that tradition, Wagoner is relying on a
center of engineering excellence in a nondescript Seoul suburb.
If the far-flung experiment continues to succeed, the unit that
Wagoner rebuilt from a Korean bankruptcy may help prevent him
from having to repeat the process in North America.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The only thing I think I agree with is Iacocca's assement of the bean counters running the show. As far as Daewoo, their bankruptcy speaks for itself and their arrogance about the hours they work, well maybe they need to get a life outside the company.
GM's problem is their styling and constipated management. Give them a coupleof hit models in the style department like DC's 300C and Ford's new Mustang and a lot of their problems will go away.
 
I liken GM's current state of affairs to Chrysler in the early eighties. Stagnant growth leading to crippled sales resulting in overseas partnering. Chrysler, like GM now, was held along by the reputations of their trucks/SUV's then finally scored big with the K-cars, just like GM's Aveo/Cobalt small car revolution. I predict GM will lie dormant for many years scoring the occasional big seller until they acheive penultimate styling success ala Charger/Magnum/300.
 
Let's see, GM has been in decline for 40 years, just when were the "great engineers" running the show?
dunno.gif
 
quote:

Originally posted by kenw:
300 is a styling success? Lord help us.

Yes, that is why it is car of the year and is flying off the dealer lots. Better to have a love/hate car than appliance cars like camcords.
 
GM is bragging that Koreans engineers are payed half what they pay Americans. The domestic makers want us to "buy American" and yet they have no loyalty to American workers. Who will buy their cars in America when so many of us are out of work?
 
I've worked in many asian factories and trust me, after-hours work is purely "face" time to let the boss see you. Nothing gets done after hours. It's a big joke.

and re: 300. It is flying off the lots because it is a marketing success, most definitely. Price/features and a savvy tie-in into the black community have made it a huge hit for D-C.

However, it is not a styling success, it is pure and simply 100% butt ugly.
 
It is a styling success because people are buying the car. 55 year old men and Tupak Shakur rappers. Not many cars can claim that feat. GM is so far behind IMHO.
 
When I say it's a styling success people aren't really buying it because it's maybe got a Hemi or it's cheaper than a Caddy, ask nine out of ten folks who buy one and it's "Maaaan..... That's one sharp looking car!"

Me personally, I think it's a cheap looking car that's a throwback to the gaudy plastic dinosaurs of the early eighties.

On the other hand my dad (a student of the Crown Vic/Town Car old man hot rod school) thinks it's one of the best looking designs since the 49 Merc or the 59 Cadillac, and we usually agree on styles.

So love it or hate it, people are buying this well built, great handling car because of it's looks; the price and performance are secondary. That IMHO qualifies as a stylistic success.
 
quote:

Originally posted by pbm:
GM is bragging that Koreans engineers are payed half what they pay Americans. The domestic makers want us to "buy American" and yet they have no loyalty to American workers. Who will buy their cars in America when so many of us are out of work?

offtopic.gif
GM (and most American top management) enjoy lucrative compensation packages which include stock options along with the usually bloated monetary compensation. Foreign (top)management usually do not get anywhere near the compensation that their American counterparts do. I'm not looking to start a 'class' war but if Americans don't curb our self indulgence I fear we will
end up like the Roman Empire.
 
quote:

Originally posted by kenw:
However, it is not a styling success, it is pure and simply 100% butt ugly.

But 100% better than the Toyota Camry/Accord. Whenever a friend of mine gets a car and says Camry/Accord... I pass on the test drive. The auto had boring cars until this thing came along.
 
quote:

Originally posted by pbm:

quote:

Originally posted by pbm:
GM is bragging that Koreans engineers are payed half what they pay Americans. The domestic makers want us to "buy American" and yet they have no loyalty to American workers. Who will buy their cars in America when so many of us are out of work?

offtopic.gif
GM (and most American top management) enjoy lucrative compensation packages which include stock options along with the usually bloated monetary compensation. Foreign (top)management usually do not get anywhere near the compensation that their American counterparts do. I'm not looking to start a 'class' war but if Americans don't curb our self indulgence I fear we will
end up like the Roman Empire.


****must refrain from posting link to Nero blog***

It was refreshing in my company last year that some very senior managers did not get their full bonus "entitlement", due to some poor management practices, and failing to take action when an employee was struggling with an issue.

The way that these people responded to this is interesting to say the least, particularly when they are trying always to reduce the pay of people that they think are not performing.

My direct supervisor was paid $8k more per annum to look after half as much plant with more people working for him, and twice the budget when he was where I am now.
 
quote:

Originally posted by VNT:
The only thing I think I agree with is Iacocca's assement of the bean counters running the show. As far as Daewoo, their bankruptcy speaks for itself and their arrogance about the hours they work, well maybe they need to get a life outside the company.
GM's problem is their styling and constipated management. Give them a coupleof hit models in the style department like DC's 300C and Ford's new Mustang and a lot of their problems will go away.


You have to understand that the work hours are not just Daewoo... this is basically all korean workers. My Uncle who is a engineer at Hyundai hasn't had vacation in 3 years. Koreans are not like us Americans, I must have vacation time or I will go crazy... As of life outside the company? 50 million people in a tiny country, millions of college graduates waiting for jobs(my cousin graduated 2 years ago and still waiting for a job, he still working at the restaurant).. its hard to actually get the "Fun Life" because everybody in Korea are either Studying, working or taking care of important business.
You guys have to understand that all countries are different and too many people compare other countries with USA,, and thats BS. but dang,, thank god I'm American
patriot.gif
 
"To maintain this pace, GM Daewoo needs to learn about making
big cars from GM."

Did anybody catch this little non-sequitor? Don't buy GM stock yet.
 
quote:

Originally posted by kenw:


However, it is not a styling success, it is pure and simply 100% butt ugly.


They look like someone dropped a big load on the roof.

I put them in the same category as a Scion xB. Not something I would care to own (or be seen in), but a well done job for what it is.

I don't have to like the way something looks to see that it's well integrated consistant design.

If you want to talk butt ugly, there's the Aztek. Its design is positively scizophrenic. It looks like someone was drivng a van by a tupperware factory when the factory exploded.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top