For the Pro Mechanics here, should a person put some grease inside the bushings on new control arms? Thanks.
Greasing bushings of control arms
- Thread starter Snagglefoot
- Start date
Why would you? To lubricate a non-moving joint?
Bushings aren’t supposed to move...this is why you torque the bolts with the weight of the vehicle on the suspension. So that the bushings are locked in place in the middle of their travel.
Grease attacks rubber. Grease would make them more likely to move. Both bad for the bushing.
So, are you trying to prevent corrosion? Use a zinc primer on the bolt and busing sleeve.
Bushings aren’t supposed to move...this is why you torque the bolts with the weight of the vehicle on the suspension. So that the bushings are locked in place in the middle of their travel.
Grease attacks rubber. Grease would make them more likely to move. Both bad for the bushing.
So, are you trying to prevent corrosion? Use a zinc primer on the bolt and busing sleeve.
Let me add that it’s a typical noob mechanic mistake to torque a bushing bolt with the car still up on a lift or jack stands. That puts the bushing at “rest” (zero twist in the rubber) with the suspension fully extended, so that when the car is lowered, and the suspension is in its normal position, the bushing is now twisted to full deflection. So, any further compression of the suspension twists the bushing beyond the intended max range of twist. Bushings then fail very quickly.
You torque bushings with the suspension in its normal position, with the vehicle weight on it. Then the bushing is at “rest” with the suspension in its normal position. Compression twists it a bit, as does extension, and they last a long time.
You torque bushings with the suspension in its normal position, with the vehicle weight on it. Then the bushing is at “rest” with the suspension in its normal position. Compression twists it a bit, as does extension, and they last a long time.
Control arms rotate constantly at the bushing. As for torquing the bushing bolt with the wheels on and weight on them, good luck with that.
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Seriously?
Control arms rotate constantly through the flexing of the rubber bushing, but if you want to believe that it’s because the sleeve rotates on the bolt...well...
Then grease away, dude. Make certain that you lubricate them well. Perhaps even back off the bolt torque so that they can rotate more easily.
Enjoy your new rotating bushing sleeves.
I’m sure that will work much better than flexing rubber.
If you can’t figure out how to torque them with weight on the suspension, you shouldn’t be doing suspension work...but if you believe bushings rotate, well, then. I guess it doesn’t matter.
Control arms rotate constantly through the flexing of the rubber bushing, but if you want to believe that it’s because the sleeve rotates on the bolt...well...
Then grease away, dude. Make certain that you lubricate them well. Perhaps even back off the bolt torque so that they can rotate more easily.
Enjoy your new rotating bushing sleeves.
I’m sure that will work much better than flexing rubber.
If you can’t figure out how to torque them with weight on the suspension, you shouldn’t be doing suspension work...but if you believe bushings rotate, well, then. I guess it doesn’t matter.
Stick to flying airplanes Dude. No pro mechanics crawl under the car to torque the bushing bolts with the wheels bolted on and weight on them.
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- Jul 11, 2014
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Just use a rubber safe grease like what you use on caliper pins, if you must. All bushings that I've installed were greased to ease installation.
Rubber bushings act like torsion springs in some suspensions. Torque those with the wheels on and with the weight on them. No crawling needed since vehicle is on a lift.
Lot of hacks out there. Forums are full of people complaining about noises after suspension work. Those "pro mechanics" are a joke.
Rubber bushings act like torsion springs in some suspensions. Torque those with the wheels on and with the weight on them. No crawling needed since vehicle is on a lift.
Lot of hacks out there. Forums are full of people complaining about noises after suspension work. Those "pro mechanics" are a joke.
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Astro is correct here man. You have to preload them to tighten them properly. If you want too use grease I suggest something with silicone in it to condition the rubber. Dielectric grease doesn’t harm rubber I do know that but I’m not sure how well it lubricates it. Grease will definitely ease the installation for them but also could make them swell.
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the bolts for the bushings should be torqued with the suspension loaded. You don’t need to crawl underneath the car to do that.
How do you like to load the suspension.
Drive it up on ramps or a floor jack or through the wheel well
Watch this video from A-1 Auto. Even after the torquing the bolts to 140 ftlbs, the bushings were free to rotate with a pry bar. The force of bouncing down the road is considerably more that pry bar. The bushings are capable of rotating. They will find their own neutral point, then flex with rotation after that. Watch carefully at 18:19. He didn't even bother to hook up the ball joint. However, he did move the control arm to horizontal but even that is a waste of time because the bushing was free to rotate as he pulled it towards the ball joint to make it up. Its only the very last movement where the bushing was flexing. Thanks for all the free advice.
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How does one load the suspension with the vehicle raised high on a lift, the very definition of unloaded suspension?
I've always torqued the bolts down by crawling underneath the car with it on the ground (or on ramps) and wheels installed, but I'm extremely skeptical that most pros follow this practice. I have a hunch that most slap a control arm on with the car on the lift, then proceed to tighten the bolts as they are with no effort at all to load the suspension.
I've always torqued the bolts down by crawling underneath the car with it on the ground (or on ramps) and wheels installed, but I'm extremely skeptical that most pros follow this practice. I have a hunch that most slap a control arm on with the car on the lift, then proceed to tighten the bolts as they are with no effort at all to load the suspension.
OEM vulcanized bushings that are vulcanized to the inner main installing bolt center hole steel tube and also vulcanized to the outer steel ring or tube do not need grease in anyway other then the grease being used as an anti-seize. With this bushing the rubber flexes and after time cracks and breaks apart to a point of failure. Grease or better yet anti-seize could be used so the bolt doesn't seize to the center steel tube after long term use, in a rain prone or especially in a winter/salt prone areas. Here we see a soon to fail, dryed out, over worked, old, ready to rip OEM bushing that will soon fail. ALL the movement is in the rubber. The inner and outer press point are pressed in with extreme psi and there is ZERO movement in the steel to steel or steel to aluminum press fit.
This OEM style bushing, the center bolt metal tube is stationary through high pressure bolt torque, if loose it would destroy the bolt/ inner bushing tube and the fitment area or say ...sub-frame receiving "ears" that the bushing/control arm fits into. If I have OEM bushing I always drive the back and forth on the drivway and then torque the bolts with the full weight of the car of the car on it's suspension, so there is no twisting load on the bushing while the car "that just drove back and forth " is just sitting there.
Grease can and should be used in aftermarket high performance polyurethane bushing where in most cases they come in non-vulcanized 2-piece or 3-peice "slip/press fit take apart" configuration. Some bushings can be dual surface vulcanized with soft polyurethane durometers, or one surface vulcanized and the other slip in fit where grease needs to be used. Such bushings here would be from company's like Whiteline, Energy Suspension, Prothan, and SuperPro, just to name a few.
In extreme street and race cars you have heim-joint or bearing ball bushings that require grease because of metal on metal contact.
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This OEM style bushing, the center bolt metal tube is stationary through high pressure bolt torque, if loose it would destroy the bolt/ inner bushing tube and the fitment area or say ...sub-frame receiving "ears" that the bushing/control arm fits into. If I have OEM bushing I always drive the back and forth on the drivway and then torque the bolts with the full weight of the car of the car on it's suspension, so there is no twisting load on the bushing while the car "that just drove back and forth " is just sitting there.
Grease can and should be used in aftermarket high performance polyurethane bushing where in most cases they come in non-vulcanized 2-piece or 3-peice "slip/press fit take apart" configuration. Some bushings can be dual surface vulcanized with soft polyurethane durometers, or one surface vulcanized and the other slip in fit where grease needs to be used. Such bushings here would be from company's like Whiteline, Energy Suspension, Prothan, and SuperPro, just to name a few.
In extreme street and race cars you have heim-joint or bearing ball bushings that require grease because of metal on metal contact.
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I apologize for how I posted earlier. I was sarcastic, and that was uncalled for.
I should have been more precise, as well as more gentle. So, for regular vulcanized rubber bushings, torque with weight on the suspension so that the flex is minimized when the suspension is at ride height, and the flex in the rubber itself is equal, and small, when the suspension goes to full compression and full extension.
I’ve used Energy Suspension polyurethane bushings, and they do get greased.
As far as what practices are employed by “professional mechanics”, well, professionals fall into four categories, a hierarchy, really, that stretches from goober to true professional. The categories look like this:
1. People who call themselves professional because they collect money for a task.
2. People who not only collect money, but also meet minimum standards for the practice of that profession.
3. People who not only meet standards, but work hard to improve themselves and learn more about the profession.
4. People who not only work hard to improve themselves, but work hard to improve their peers and their profession.
Trav, Clinebarger, greasymechtech, and others who post on BITOG fall into that fourth category. True professionals who want to help improve others.
Folks who torque suspensions improperly, well, I would say that they fall into the first category.
They collect money, while doing a job that fails to meet standards, and will be a disappointment, not to mention dis-service, when those bushings live a short life on their customer’s cars.
I should have been more precise, as well as more gentle. So, for regular vulcanized rubber bushings, torque with weight on the suspension so that the flex is minimized when the suspension is at ride height, and the flex in the rubber itself is equal, and small, when the suspension goes to full compression and full extension.
I’ve used Energy Suspension polyurethane bushings, and they do get greased.
As far as what practices are employed by “professional mechanics”, well, professionals fall into four categories, a hierarchy, really, that stretches from goober to true professional. The categories look like this:
1. People who call themselves professional because they collect money for a task.
2. People who not only collect money, but also meet minimum standards for the practice of that profession.
3. People who not only meet standards, but work hard to improve themselves and learn more about the profession.
4. People who not only work hard to improve themselves, but work hard to improve their peers and their profession.
Trav, Clinebarger, greasymechtech, and others who post on BITOG fall into that fourth category. True professionals who want to help improve others.
Folks who torque suspensions improperly, well, I would say that they fall into the first category.
They collect money, while doing a job that fails to meet standards, and will be a disappointment, not to mention dis-service, when those bushings live a short life on their customer’s cars.
While can easily use a jack to put the suspension at the riding height. The vehicle doesn’t need to be sitting on the ground and under its own weight.
If they are not hacks, yes they do. It is WAY easy if they have a drive-on rack with center jacks . They just roll the car back and forth or some have bearing plates where the tire sit, so the plates move and let the suspension relieve it's "arch movement" side energy holding the car up from it's correct resting ride height. On scissor spreader twin pole lifts you can measure ride height on a lug nut to fender lip and lower the car at ONE suspension point with a jackstand under it get it to it's sitting resting point. It is just part of the correct way to do it. Unless you get very very close to running ride height, bushing life can be reduced drastically.
At home here, since my car is somewhat low, in the front I drive onto ramps. In the rear, I have access on my back to get at it from the back.
