Got a new jump starter, for the big boys

[901Memphis]

Well you won't need to spend $400 to get a quality product, the JNC660 is around $120 online and should be able to jump anything athe averageperson would be driving for a personal vehicle

Those cables on Amazon are interesting because they are 20 foot 4 gauge but the thinner gauge is more expensive

 

[Ramblejam]

Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Well you won't need to spend $400 to get a quality product, the JNC660 is around $120 online and should be able to jump anything athe averageperson would be driving for a personal vehicle


Funny you mention that.

Years ago, I had a job that very frequently used that exact jump box (JNC660).

Long story short, they proved to be unreliable in commercial service. Eventually, I just went back to using jumper cables that were hard-wired into my truck (with a quick-connect). Always worked, and had no problem providing the power needed to crank an engine over.

In theory, I really like the idea of a jump box.
In reality, I'll go with cables and a good charger at the house.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[HangFire]

Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
There are some 20 foot 4 ga cables at home depot but they are only rated for 250 amps.


That's correct -- every other 4-gauge cable on the market is rated for at least 400.

Mine are 500.

Here are 600 AMP on Amazon for $27 with excellent reviews: http://amzn.com/B00AETUVM4

I would like to think it's the difference between 4 ga aluminum, copper plated aluminum and pure copper cable, but it's probably just amp inflation, like the 700A-1500A jump starters that have a 70-80 Amp peak output AGM battery inside.

 

[Donald]

One big issue with a jump pak is where you keep it in the winter. If its 0F out and your jump pak is in the trunk, good luck starting a V8 engine. I have a jump pak and keep it in the house. I use it around my home (various vehicles) and would bring it over to a neighbor. But it stays 70F all the time ready to go.

If your going to leave something in your trunk, get quality jumper cables.

 

[901Memphis]

Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Well you won't need to spend $400 to get a quality product, the JNC660 is around $120 online and should be able to jump anything athe averageperson would be driving for a personal vehicle


Funny you mention that.

Years ago, I had a job that very frequently used that exact jump box (JNC660).

Long story short, they proved to be unreliable in commercial service. Eventually, I just went back to using jumper cables that were hard-wired into my truck (with a quick-connect). Always worked, and had no problem providing the power needed to crank an engine over.

In theory, I really like the idea of a jump box.
In reality, I'll go with cables and a good charger at the house.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

But it started anything non commercial right?

 

[wrcsixeight]

Hard to argue with the convenience of a jumper pack, as long as the battery is charged when it is needed.

As far as the inflator goes, well they like to overheat and then become noisy tire deflators. If they say 5 minutes on and 30 off, believe it, and save it for that emergency, and do not use it any other time.

Now While the Asian AGMS in these have much less self discharge than a regular wet/flooded battery, they do not have the Super low self discharge of Odyssey, Northstar and Lifeline AGM batteries and other higher quality AGM lead acid batteries.

These asian AGM batteries are also limited in the amperage they can be fed.

The UB12220 is 22 AH and says 6.6 amps maximum with a 14.3 to 14.9v absorption voltage range.

Any cranking amp/peak amp numbers listed on the packaging have no basis in reality to a true CCA figure.

Of course these AGMs can and do start engines. One would be surprised how little battery can actually start an modern engine in mild temps.

I also see the plug so that one can just feed it a 120vac extension cord to the unit. Inside they have a simple wall wart/transformer of fixed voltage and limited amperage. These are hardly great for recharging the jumper pack, merely adequate when the battery is still healthy and one has unlimited time to recharge.

If you have a 6 amp or less smart charger it will do a much better job recharging this particular 22AH depleted battery, and be much faster too. As long as you do not exceed 6.6 amps on that particular 22Ah battery you are fine. AGMs actually like higher charge rates so the low and slow trickle charge mentality grandpa hammered into a few generations of drivers, should not be applied to them.

Especially if they have been sitting discharged. They need high initial current to have any chance of restoring lost capacity. The higher amps forces the migration of the electrolyte through the glass matting so the chemical reaction can occur more evenly across all of the plates

They are fine when new, but as the battery ages, 13.6v and a slow charge rate is not going to touch the sulfation nor restore lost capacity.

If this thing comes with a dual male ciggy plug type charge cord for charging while driving, well it could blow the 12v powerport fuse if the battery is low enough. But in general ciggy plugs/ receptacles have so much voltage drop to them through them and after them that very little recharging will actually occur, and monitoring for overcharge is not necessary and practically laughable. It is unlikely the vehicle is going to hold 14.9v, and even if it did 14.9v would not make it to the jumper pack through a dual ended ciggy plug, not until the battery was only able to accept very little current, after many many hours of driving

AGM batteries when fully charged require very little current to be held at high voltages. As long as 14.9v at 77f is not exceeded and this particular 22 AH battery is not allowed to feed upon more than 6.6 amps, it is happy enough. So as long as the voltage is limited, overcharging is unlikely, even if left on too long at 14.9v. not that this is good for the battery, but it is not the same as a flooded battery which will require much more current to be held at absorption voltage and the whole time there it will be bubbling and losing water and have some degree of positive plate shedding.

So these Asian AGMs do not have the super low self discharge, and who knows how long they sat around between manufacture and being picked up in the store. Their batteries could be sulfated before even put into use.

If one wants the warm and fuzzy reassurance of a portable battery butnot in the nice package, consider the Odyssey lineup of smaller batteries. These do have the super low self discharge, and can also accept huge charging currents as long as the voltage is not allowed to exceed a certain number, likely 14.7v @77f.

No limits on initial charging current screams a high quality low resistance battery, and low resistance also means high CCA figures.

I'd much prefer an Odyssey pc625 as a jump starter battery, but it is 2.5 times more expensive than a UB12220 for 4 Ah less capacity, but if kept fully charged, can also have a usable lifespan 2.5 times as long and have better performance during that extended lifespan.

If the battery was manufactured a year ago and not charged until you bought the unit. I'd recommend discharging the battery to ~12.2 rested volts, rested meaning the voltage rebounds to 12.2 ~ 1 hour after the load is removed, then charge it at 6 amps until the smart charger goes to float mode. Then load the battery again to drop voltage just below 12.7 or so, then restart charger on next lowest amperage setting and let it go and let it float it at 13.6v for as long as you want.

I'd consider the little wall wart inside that jumper pack to be a fixed voltage float charger and nothing more

 

[901Memphis]

The unit I got was very fresh and the voltage was over 13 when I checked it initially

 

[wrcsixeight]

Confirm that analog voltmeter with a known accurate unit on the clamps themselves for peace of mind. Both charged, charging and discharged.

I scavenged an old quality jumper pack for parts and was going to retask the voltmeter, until I checked it. It appeared exactly as the one on your unit and was easily 0.35v out of spec. It read 13.25 when battery was actually 12.82. At actual 14.7 it read 14.9/15. At actual 12.2v, it read 12.2..

Trust is only warranted after confirmation.

 

[901Memphis]

There is some difference

 

[wrcsixeight]

Looks like ~0.32V difference to me.

 

[901Memphis]

I got an answer back from clore they said the internal AC charger has a maximum output of 1.2 amps

 

[901Memphis]

I checked closer now that it's daylight and my multi meter is now reading 13.16v and I tested it with my innova cigarette meter as well as noticed that there are more hash marks on the internal JNCAIR meter meaning one at each 0.20v

Here you can see a my Innova meter is probably off a little, maybe voltage drop?

Here you can see what the has marks look like closer

Here is today's reading showing right about 13.40v. So 13.4 minus 13.16 = 0.24v difference. Probably being generous here but it's not as far off as I thought.

 

[wrcsixeight]

That's good to know, but a single voltage (~13.6) 1.2 amp charger is hardly ideal for proper recharging of the battery within, especially when it ages and you have depleted it below 50%.

In such a scenario you'd want 6 amps applied until 14.4 to 14.9v is reached, then held at 14.4 to 14.9 until amps taper to 0.11 amps, then float at 13.6v.

This stands a much better chance of actually fully charging the battery and redissolving the sulfation back into the captured electrolyte in the fiberglass matting between the plates.

1.2 amps seeking 13.6 not only will take much much longer, but it will not be able to force the electrolyte to migrate and clean up the sulfation blocking a portion of the plates from the chemical reaction.

When new and healthy, 13.6v achieved @ 1.2 amps should be OK, just taking longer to reach full charge from a depleted state. But when the battery has aged it will not be, no matter how long you plug it in, and at that stage getting it to 14.4v would not be as effective as discharging it to ~50%, and then recharging at a higher rate, upto 6.6 amps on that particular 22AH AGM battery upto 14.4v and holding 14.4v until amps taper to 0.5% of capacity. If indeed it is the UB12220 battery relabelled with a Clore sticker.

That current tapering stage at constant voltage will likely be about 4 hours long. The health of the battery can be judged by how long it does indeed take for amps to taper to 0.5% of capacity at absorption voltage, but comparisons to when new and healthy help greatly in this regard.

I've seen my Northstar agm take only 3 hours at absorption voltage for amps to taper to 0.5% of capacity. I've also seen it take 10+ hours after many cycles when recharging was only to 92% or so and at a slower rate.

The Low and slow recharge is not what an AGM battery wants. A single voltage 13.6v charger on that 22Ah battery is adequate with enough time applied, when the battery is new and healthy only. It is not ideal in keeping the battery happy if/when the battery is discharged to 50% or less.

It stands no chance of restoring an abused battery to a usable capacity, but higher amps might not accomplish that either depending on the level of sulfation and how long it has had to harden.

 

[901Memphis]

Well my Pro Logix Charger 10 amp mode is supposed to be a variable mode, do you think that would be okay to use, as it should lower amps after a short time since the battery is smaller?

 

[901Memphis]

Can you recommend me a decent inexpensive Ammeter?

Previously you mentioned the GT Power RC 130A Power Analyzer, but what's the best way to set that up in conjunction with my pro logix charger and charging either automotive batteries or my JNCAIR?

http://www.amazon.com/GT-Power-Analyzer-Consumption-Performance/dp/B00C1BZSYO

 

[wrcsixeight]

If the battery is indeed the Ub12220 as I strongly suspect, it says right on the side 6.6 amps maximum, and I'd not exceed that unless I was observing the battery closely with a temperature gauge.

You could use a longer length of wiring from clore charger clamps set to 10 amps, to jumper pack clamps to introduce resistance, and introduce voltage drop, which will lower charge rate.

If you are really interested in this I recommend a clamp on Ammeter such as this:
http://www.amazon.com/Uni-T-UT204-Auto-R...amp+meter+uni+t

But if your only need desire for reading current is for battery charging, then get one of these:

http://www.amazon.com/GT-Power-Analyzer-...rds=gtpower+130

I'd not pass more than 25 amps through this continuously, and shop around, that link is just the first one which popped up. It will show Amps, volts, Watts, minimum voltage watt peak, amp peak amp hours, and watt hours.

With such a tool you can get a very good idea of how much the battery has accepted and infer how much it was depleted, and get a general idea of its healthy and capabilities.

If one is wanting to pass more than 25 amps through such a wattmeter this one has 8 gauge leads:

http://www.amazon.com/WindyNation-AccuMa...ords=DC+ammeter

I opened up my watt meters to solder 8awg to the circuit boards, replacing the aluminum 12awg leads and pass 40 amps continuously through it via 45 amp Anderson powerpole connectors.

These wattmeters however are not that great at reading currents under 0.5 amps. I had one, Andoer brand/clone, which did, but my other two do not, limiting their usefullness at low currents. Without a clamp on meter or using a DMM inline to verify, I would likely have remained unaware of this inaccuracy

 

[wrcsixeight]

There are other shunted meters, inexpensive, like this:
http://www.amazon.com/DROK-Voltmeter-Mul...ords=DC+ammeter

But the 100 amp version also suffered from poor resolution at low currents, reading 0 when 0.72 amps were still flowing. I assume the lower 10 or 50 amp versions would have better resolution.

Both meters are easy to wire up, the Gtpower simply has a source and load side. Get them reversed and it will light up, and show voltage, but amps will read zero.

The meter linked in this post has calibration potentiometers for voltage and amperage but they are extremely touchy, and would not allow me to dial in a lower amperage resolution.