Good lubrication and still Hemi's are failing.

[burla]

This guys EXPERT opinion is it is the needle bearings on the lifters. So literally every shop knows about the hemi failure rates. of course keyboard warriors just kick back and say hemi's are great hemi's are great, but the fact is they fail at a huge rate. Guys with hemi's need to look at hearty oils to maybe prolong the time before that thing dies. At least 5w30 as a good strategy. Of course, there aint much you can do if a needle bearing fails. We know for a fact hearty base oil paired with heavy aw/ep additives can end ticks/knocks that random group 3 leave behind, that is a fact. Maybe if you kill the tick you will extend the life dunno, but anyone who tells you to choose an oil that makes your car/truck tick when another oil will allow it not to tick, you should tell them to pound sand. youtube mechanic explains hemi

 

[Chris142]

What years are having troubles? My good friend has an 04,2500 with the 5.7 and well over 200k on it with no issues. The guy across the street from my work has an 05,1500 with the 5.7 with about 235k on it. I service that one with proline or Napa 5w20.

 

[Skippy722]

Originally Posted by Chris142

What years are having troubles? My good friend has an 04,2500 with the 5.7 and well over 200k on it with no issues. The guy across the street from my work has an 05,1500 with the 5.7 with about 235k on it. I service that one with proline or Napa 5w20.

It's primarily the 2009+ models that I've seen, which is when they added variable cam timing.

 

[demarpaint]

My bet is more a 5W30 oil with more ZDDP would be beneficial. I had this discussion with my Jeep tech buddy when I had my airbag recall.

 

[Chris142]

Originally Posted by Skippy722

Originally Posted by Chris142

What years are having troubles? My good friend has an 04,2500 with the 5.7 and well over 200k on it with no issues. The guy across the street from my work has an 05,1500 with the 5.7 with about 235k on it. I service that one with proline or Napa 5w20.

It's primarily the 2009+ models that I've seen, which is when they added variable cam timing.

Ahhh. Thats still kinda new for us.

 

[Mr Nice]

Originally Posted by demarpaint

My bet is more a 5W30 oil with more ZDDP would be beneficial. I had this discussion with my Jeep tech buddy when I had my airbag recall.

Made a 50% mix of Rotella T4 to bring up the ZDDP ? Zero possibility I'd use 20 wt oil in those engines.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted by Mr Nice

Originally Posted by demarpaint

My bet is more a 5W30 oil with more ZDDP would be beneficial. I had this discussion with my Jeep tech buddy when I had my airbag recall.

Made a 50% mix of Rotella T4 to bring up the ZDDP ? Zero possibility I'd use 20 wt oil in those engines.

I wouldn't use a 20 grade in it either. Your Rotella mix sounds interesting. I'd tweak the 30 grade with a ZDDP additive as per what my Jeep tech buddy suggested. He got that info from higher up the food chain. Then there are a few other people that know a lot more than I do making the same recommendation. I also heard a good 0W40 with some ZDDP is a good choice too. These failures are not limited to Chrysler only, a lot of these parts are outsourced.

 

[sloinker]

Red Line is the oil for Hemi's. Extend the drain interval a little and the cost isn't as prohibitive. My .02

 

[gspfunk]

The lifter issue is one of the reasons I got the Maxcare warranty. Sucks that FCA would rather play the odds than fix the issue.

 

[Anduril]

Delete

 

[DoubleWasp]

Needle bearings are a mother for a lot of engines. GM has had some issues with the ones in their rockers. There's a company out there that converts them to bushings for the aggressive cam crowd. My KTM is a notorious rocker needle bearing eater too. I was always told by the companies that deal with these issues that moly is the best way to hold off needle bearing drama.

 

[GumbyJarvis]

Plenty of people run 5w20 in 5.7L engines without failures or ticks. Long idles and people running these things like they're Dom Toretto are the main reason why theres such a high failure rate. I understand that sports cars such as the Charger or Challenger are meant to scream and go fast, but not everytime you drive the dang thing, especially in city traffic. You know how many times I see someone go from light to light flooring a challenger? By the time they get to 60mph its already time to stop at the next red light. Police Cruisers are another example of a severe service issue. Any vehicle idling for 12+ hour shifts on the side of the road is going to have its issues. It's all how you take care of it, I've seen fleet 2009+ Ram Hemis that get a QSGB 5w20 dump and Hastings filters every 5k go to 300k+ without an issue. I've also seen 2009+ 300s and Chargers not make it to 100k. 9/10 it's due to neglect, whether it be due to not adhering to severe service schedules, or driving erratically for no reason other than to look cool. Some of the most popular vehicles with military service members are Chargers, Challengers, Rams, and 300s. Being in the service I wasnt surprised when someones Hemi failed, because most of the time the person was an immature Speedy Gonzalez driving on post where the speed limits what, 35mph tops? They would literally rev the engine up as fast as they could to...35mph...just to stop 3 blocks down at another stoplight/sign. Edit: people are also fooled by OLMs and never even crack open their OM, the oil fill is recommended to be changed every 6months unless the OLM gets to 0 before hand. I'm almost two months in on this OCI, about 2.5K miles in, and the OLM is only at 90%. If the OLM keeps up at this rate, I could go 25,000mi/20 months on a cheap dino (Formula Shell), but I'm smart enough not to, whereas many people probably wouldnt be and then would wonder what happened when they're stranded.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Gumby Smart....... good post.

 

[wemay]

How does viscosity fix defective needle bearings? More importantly, how is 5W-20 at fault?

 

[dnewton3]

Originally Posted by GumbyJarvis

... Police Cruisers are another example of a severe service issue. Any vehicle idling for 12+ hour shifts on the side of the road is going to have its issues. 9/10 it's due to neglect, whether it be due to not adhering to severe service schedules, or driving erratically for no reason other than to look cool.

I respectfully disagree. After spending 24+ years sitting in GMs, Fords and Chrysler products, I've seen plenty of LEO service in these vehicles. When I started in 1995, the GM Caprice LT1/LT4 engines were fairly stout; never any really big issues with the engines themselves. The Ford CVPIs were like granite; you could not break the drive-train; the 4.6L is a stalwart and there's a reason you see these in taxi service AFTER they'er taken out of police service (can easily run 300k-500k with routine service). The Chargers and Durango's we've had in the last few years? Not up to snuff; not in the least. In 20 years of sitting in CVPIs, I had only one failure ever; a IAC motor/solenoid went out. Easily replace roadside in 10 minutes; the CoHwy shop foreman drove out to me on a Sunday and replaced it in the field. Other than that, those CVPI cars were the most reliable we ever had. We had a short spat of failed COP ignition failures; coincidentally right after our new leader told us to include pressure washing under-hood as part of our cleaning prep for the monthly vehicle inspection program. After we stopped pressure washing the engines, the COP failures stopped. COPs don't like high-pressure water sprayed at them. I've been in a Charger during an emergency run; the cam up and ate itself and I had to limp it all the way there. We've lost a lot of cams in our Chargers; we're a mid-sized agency. Our Durangos eat up the 8-spd trannies fairly quickly. We've had water pumps fail way too soon. We've had two officers now locked out of their cars because the body-control computers refused to recognize the key fobs upon approach; not a good thing when you're trying to get to an emergency call! Our agency sees good routine service for it's vehicles with bulk drum oil and jobber filters. The 4.6L engines never had internal lube-related issues in the 20 years we drove them. They got OFCIs every 5k miles or so; no more than 6k miles. Your comment that "Any vehicle idling for 12+ hour shifts on the side of the road is going to have its issues" is patently incorrect; the 4.6L engines never presented issues related to it's severe use or service factor. The old GM LT1/LT4 engines never had issues either. We've had 6.0L GMs in some Tahoe's; no issues there. Even our Taurus 3.5L engines (n/a; not EB) don't have severe service issues. It's just the Hemi's; they cannot handle the severe duty, even with decent routine service. The above is all true and factual, if not anecdotal. However, what I'm going to say next is my OPINION ... The Chrysler products are like the hot blonde chick in high-school. They're fast, good looking, and a hoot to run around with for a while. But eventually, sooner rather than later, she's going to become high-maintenance and not someone you'd want to spend a lot of time with. She'll cost you a lot of money and leave you stranded when you can least afford it. Yes - that's a stereotypical POV that is derogatory. But the real question is this .... Did I offend the blondes, or the Chargers, more?

 

[GumbyJarvis]

Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en

Gumby Smart....... good post.

To sum it up, the average person should stick to 3k/3m ocis or whatever is severe service according to the OM. I've never heard of a vehicle other than a lemon or known bad design* have mechanical failures if the severe service schedules are followed. *The modern 5.7L Hemi is almost 20 years old, I'm sure it wouldnt have lasted that long in production if it was a generally "known bad design" If you do not do UOAs and get an idea of your engine, but want it to last, go with severe service and a OEM spec oil. Alot of old cars on the road today, especially American cars, have lasted because of that. A 5.7L or any Chrysler isnt a Honda or Toyota that can run on anything and have even the slightest neglect. A Chrysler product needs love, it needs attention. Mopars, in my opinion, are best suited for those who love to get dirty, not for those who rely on quickie lubes, and Walmart service departments. Just my two cents.

 

[JHZR2]

OP lost me at group III. Probably something to be said about heavier viscosity and adds as a band aid if need be, but to perpetuate wife's tales Is a stretch.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted by DoubleWasp

Needle bearings are a mother for a lot of engines. GM has had some issues with the ones in their rockers. There's a company out there that converts them to bushings for the aggressive cam crowd. My KTM is a notorious rocker needle bearing eater too. I was always told by the companies that deal with these issues that moly is the best way to hold off needle bearing drama.

Interesting... I remember being young and reading the car mags and it seemed roller rockers were the way to go (on SBC's and SBF's). I guess they have high point of contact loading? Lower losses but more severe duty, needs better materials I guess. is this Hemi tick the same problem as what the Pentastar tick is, and is it as hard to repair? I want to say, in the threads for the Pentastar, it's "just replace the follower" but on Hemi's it more often means a trashed cam too?

 

[DoubleWasp]

I am in no way saying it's a needle bearing problem in general. Might be one of improperly spec'd or treated bearings. Or maybe they need to be of substantial quality in the first place when used in a valve train. I'm just saying it does happen. Companies like Jesel seem to be able to make needle bearings that can survive nuclear war.

 

[Vigg]

I have a 2014 Jeep GC with the 5.7 Hemi and its never given me any trouble. Currently have around 71K miles on it. I don't have the "Hemi tick" and the motor is very quiet. The only mods I have are a drop in AFE dry filter and an Elite Catch can (which I dump twice between each oil change). The only oil that's been in it is PP in either 5w20 or 0w20 flavor. I change the oil between 5k-7k miles. Started changing more at the 7K mark after performing some UOA. I definitely don't baby it and it sees full throttle romps every other day. I get between 13-15 in town if that's any indication how I drive. Not sure what the reason is when people do have issues. Not sure if it's a lack of maintenance or just bad luck of the draw. I just wanted to post some UOA of 20 weight oil to show its possible to have good wear numbers and a Hemi not granade using it. I will say I want to run PP 5w30 next. I got 4 jugs of PP 0w20 on a walmart closeout for $11 a pop and I just used the last of it. I will perfom a UOA to see how it looks but that wont be for probably 9 months.