Good article on oil weight & viscosity improvers

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I have a question concerning oil viscosity. I've been living in western central Mexico (8000 ft above sea level) for the past 5 years and in that time I've come across all kinds of climates and altitudes. When I originally came out here, I had a 2003 Ford Explorer with a 4.6 V8 that called for 5W-20 motor oil. Ever since the first day my truck was in Mexico I always had problems with the motor oil in my truck especially when traveling up in altitude which would result in an overheated transmission, you could just feel that the truck had no torque whatsoever... until we started using 15W-40, which as we all know is way heavier then the 5W-20 that it calls for.

My question is, why does this make so much of a difference in the engine? How is it possible that putting a heavier weight oil in your engine improves it to the point that it feels like a completely different car. I feel that the altitude plays a key role here, please correct me if I'm wrong.

P.S. I have tried this on several cars now and I always get the same results. Especially on automatic cars.

A. Car makers like 5W-20 oil for two reasons. First, it flows faster at startup. Since oil drains down after shutdown, engine parts are most susceptible to wear at startup. 5W and even the newer 0W oils get lubrication to those parts faster to prevent wear. Second, lighter weight oils provide less internal friction and that improves gas mileage. Imagine how much energy it would take to pump grease through an engine compared to oil and it makes sense that the engineers want as little internal friction as possible.

On the flip side, a heavier viscosity oil does a better job of sealing piston rings against the cylinder walls, so it can actually improve compression and reduce blow-by. But there's a limit to how much you want to thicken oil. Multi-viscosity oil became multi-viscosity because of viscosity improver (VI) additives. VI is a polymer (plastic-like) additive.

Here's a quick description from an additive manufacturer (Afton Chemical): "When viscosity improvers are added to low viscosity oils, they effectively thicken the oil as temperature increases. This means that the lubricating effect of mineral oils can be extended across a wider temperature range. When creating a viscosity improver, a balance between the thickening efficiency and shear stability of the polymer is important. Higher molecular weight polymers make better thickeners, but tend to have less resistance to mechanical shear. Lower molecular weight polymers are more shear resistant, but do not improve viscosity as effectively at higher temperatures and have to be used in larger quantities. Polymer additives can also undergo thermal and oxidative degradation, unzipping back to smaller monomers, which reduces their effect. The highest possible degree of thermal and oxidative stability is desirable in addition to the features above."

A few decades ago auto makers recommended 10W-40 oil. You don't see that recommendation anymore. Car makers discovered that the quantity of polymer additives required to get oil up to 40 created other problems. In fact, they found that the VI literally baked onto the piston rings causing them to stick in the lands. And creating the heat of combustion cooked the VI on cylinder heads, creating carbon buildup that caused pre-detonation. As noted earlier, since the VI additive is less shear resistant, they don't stand up to long term use.

In addition to the VI issue, you've got heat dissipation issues at higher altitudes. The thinner air doesn't dissipate heat as well and that affects the oil. Oil must carry heat away from engine parts. If it can't release that heat as quickly the oil runs hotter. As oil heats up, oil pressure drops. And lower oil pressure reduces the quantity of oil flow which results in even more temperature buildup. So you can see why a heavier weight oil is good in those conditions. But there's no free lunch here. You're paying a price on the engine wear side of this story. Use a heavier weight oil and you get more internal friction, lower gas mileage, less oil flow when cold, greater chance of piston ring carbon when you use 15-40. My advice? Install an aux transmission oil cooler to take the load off the radiator. That alone will improve engine cooling. (Find automatic transmission oil coolers, oil cooler line, connectors, O-rings, etc. for your specific car or truck under "Transmission-Automatic" in the catalog. Tom)
 
In an engine designed for 5W-20, with bearings in good condition, 15W-40 would cause a LARGE increase in frictional losses (meaning heat), and would cause the engine to run hotter. Why not try a decent (cheap) 5W20 synthetic blend like Defy or even MaxLife and see if the overheating improves? Of course, the usual suspects like a plugged radiator, bad fan clutch, worn water pump, even hard water deposits from local hard water in the block could even cause the problem.
 
Originally Posted By: chad8
Ever since the first day my truck was in Mexico I always had problems with the motor oil in my truck especially when traveling up in altitude which would result in an overheated transmission, you could just feel that the truck had no torque whatsoever... until we started using 15W-40, which as we all know is way heavier then the 5W-20 that it calls for.


I'm a little confused about how the overheating transmission is related to engine oil? The transmission lubricant is separate from the engine oil isn't it?

Anyway, in hot climates most cars will run fine on 15W40. Sure it's not so great oil if you've got really cold starts, but otherwise no problems. Lots of cars that spec 5W20 or 5W30 in the US run on 10W40 and 15W40 here in Australia.

I'm surprised about it making really big improvements though. Unless there was something substandard about your previous oil. I've notice some engines run a bit quieter on 15W40 when hot, but that's about all.
 
Maybe the OP's engine is tired and the thicker oil is providing a tighter ring seal increasing compression. As far as the transmission is concerned. Could it be downshifting a lot as a result of lack of power due to the engine not having good compression with the thinner oil? The constant up and downshifting is causing it to overheat? I'd try a better ATF while I was at it too. JMO
 
The 10W40 viscosity improver folly is really outdated. Heck,we have 0W40 and 0W50 now. MUCH wider spread than the before mentioned 10W40.
 
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
The 10W40 viscosity improver folly is really outdated. Heck,we have 0W40 and 0W50 now. MUCH wider spread than the before mentioned 10W40.
Most (if not all) of the 10W-40 oils referred to were conventional and probably Group I. Today's 0W-40 oils are most likely synthetic, or at least a syn-blend with Group II or II+, so it's not a fair comparison.
 
I too live in the mountains of Mexico, but at a lesser elevation, 5000' not 8000'. I don't see how engine oil viscosity could affect transmission temperature in a perceptible amount. I have been doing quite the opposite for the last 2 or 3 years; putting 5w30 in my extended family's various vehicles and haven't had any negative feedback, abnormal consumption, overheating, etc. Some of these cars are older and previously used mainly 20w50, but I imagine 15w40, 25w50 & 25w60 had been used in them as well. I've been using Mobil Super 5w30 Ahorra Combustible and Mobil 1 5w30 in everything lately, have used Castrol GTX 5w30 & 10w30 in the past. I did bring a '99 F-150 down here in October w/4.2L & 4R70W after installing a small [13,000 btu] additional transmission cooler, and its transmission overheated South of the border. I attribute it to the STEEP hills, high speeds and constant speeding up and slowing down. It first started blinking the O/D light on the new Autopista Monterrey-Saltillo Tollway, which is carved into the side of a mountain and goes what seems like straight up and down and the typical traffic speed is 60-80 mph, faster if you wish.

On a side note I took a lubrication class taught by a Mexican Quaker State engineer trained by SOPUS in Houston, his opinion on viscosity versus compression was that most engines are clearanced for Xw30 oil, and using an Xw30 oil would make the best compression seal between the piston itself and the cylinder wall. This was in response to other students' questions about the common Mexican practice of buying a brand new car and taking it straight to mechanic to have the oil changed out for 25w50 or 25w60 high mileage oil to give it "better compression and more horsepower"
 
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