Going to the Dealer from now on....here is why

[CROWNVIC4LIFE]

Most independents are good for oil changes but not much else.

I recently had my independent change the upper and lower hose and change out the coolant..He was about to mix red coolant with the green stuff with my Motorcraft Gold I brought with me as he does not carry Motorcraft Gold coolant any anything compatible..He also wanted to mix in Dex coolant in there..His goal was to put in 100% coolant..In the end he ended up putting some of the old coolant back in the radiator as he said the gallon and half I brought was not enough to mix with water..Now I will have to change out the coolant again in the near future..Glad I was standing there to stop that nonsense..He has been around for 30 years so you think he would know better..We had few words.

I generally hear good things about Mobil 1 Express Lubes.

Anything complicated I would take the car to the stealer as much as I do not want to.

 

[ltslimjim]

buster, heard your first post loud and clear.

 

[The Critic]

There's obviously a chance of something going wrong wherever you go, so you must use your due diligence. However, a dealership's familiarity with your make/model makes them a less risky choice, in theory.

At least around here, the megadealers are quite concerned with customer satisfaction so they usually have all of their ducks in a row. There is also a A LOT of competition here, so dealers have to do well or else they'll be out of business.

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: daman
cals will rust right away there virgin iron so un less painted they will rust. Do more of your own work.


I'm trying to figure out what kind of metal the calipers on my cruze and the equinox are. they might just be painted, but they are bright silver, and look natural. I dunno.

 

[buickman50401]

For specific types of issues I use the local GM/VW dealer that we purchased my wife's VW from.

I had an issue with the cruise control in my Buick a couple of years ago and rather than mess with an independent trying to find the problem, I took it to the dealer on the hope/assumption it would be a common problem that they were aware of and could fix easily.

Took them 2 days and 10 hours of labor to find the cause and that was after spending time talking to GM trying to track down the electrical gremlin causing the issue as vacuum leaks and BCM/ECM were ruled out.

Turned out to be a short in a wire for the center mount stoplight. Wire had gotten frayed rubbing on a piece of framing under the rear carpeted deck. The short wasn't enough to cause a fuse to blow as it was intermittent and barely making contact, but a tech finally noticed some odd behavior of the light (slight occasional flicker) when they were checking the brake mounted cruise disable switch for the second time after having just swapped in a new one. The short was enough to throw off the voltage to the BCM which wouldn't allow the cruise to engage or remain engaged.

End result. Service manager said they had never seen this issue before and it was highly unusual. They forwarded the info off to GM about this type of problem. Then turned around and cut me a break on labor at 4 hours instead of the 10 it took saying, "It was one [censored] of a learning experience for us and in the future it will be one of the first things we check when looking at cruise issues on similar cars."

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: buickman50401
For specific types of issues I use the local GM/VW dealer that we purchased my wife's VW from.

I had an issue with the cruise control in my Buick a couple of years ago and rather than mess with an independent trying to find the problem, I took it to the dealer on the hope/assumption it would be a common problem that they were aware of and could fix easily.

Took them 2 days and 10 hours of labor to find the cause and that was after spending time talking to GM trying to track down the electrical gremlin causing the issue as vacuum leaks and BCM/ECM were ruled out.

Turned out to be a short in a wire for the center mount stoplight. Wire had gotten frayed rubbing on a piece of framing under the rear carpeted deck. The short wasn't enough to cause a fuse to blow as it was intermittent and barely making contact, but a tech finally noticed some odd behavior of the light (slight occasional flicker) when they were checking the brake mounted cruise disable switch for the second time after having just swapped in a new one. The short was enough to throw off the voltage to the BCM which wouldn't allow the cruise to engage or remain engaged.

End result. Service manager said they had never seen this issue before and it was highly unusual. They forwarded the info off to GM about this type of problem. Then turned around and cut me a break on labor at 4 hours instead of the 10 it took saying, "It was one [censored] of a learning experience for us and in the future it will be one of the first things we check when looking at cruise issues on similar cars."


And this illustrates again, the advantage of a dealership: they have access to the manufacturer's technical hotline. That is something that independents do not have access to. If necessary the manufacturer can even fly out field technical specialists to assist with troubleshooting. For instance there's one person on the Prius forum right now that has an odd battery drain issue with their Prius during extended hill climbs, and Toyota flew out a team of technical specialists to troubleshoot the car even though it had nearly 100k on it.

 

[EricF]

being in the automotive field for so long.. we can all come to the conclusion that it's not jiffy lube per se that is bad for instance..
it's the PEOPLE who do the labor, OR the management trying to maximize profit who make good people take shortcuts.
dealerships, generally have the stigma of quality work and that they are automotive gods for your vehicle.
the only advantage for a dealer tech is they have full access to every piece of information for your car as well as the factory solution.
they see the problems day in and day out, so they theoretically can fix an issue faster, which they do.. but they charge full price for it, which to me is dishonest, however, the lights don't stay on by themselves.

 

[hounddog]

Dry sump systems are rare. They are not on all Z06 Corvettes. Anyone taking one to a Quick Lube is a idiot to start with. Obviously the owner of the car was not familiar with it either. I could and did use to do all my own maintenance. Not any more. I usually find fair prices and have never really had a issue anywhere. I stand over any and all for the most part while they work on my vehicles. Once I get a feel for the tech and he knows I'll double check and be in his face if any questions, I'll leave and come back. I did have a issue few months back with a no it all mouthy tech at the Chevy store near my house. I told him he was full of [censored]. Pulled my car out,called the other dealer 45 miles away. Service writer said "we are slow"! Get here asap and we will get right on it. Got there a hour later. Waited while they fixed my car. Tipped tech $20.00. He had a whole different attitude then first tech/shop. On way home stopped at dealer with mouthy tech and told owner about the revenue they lost cause of that mans attitude.

 

[CBR.worm]

2 out of my 3 last Infiniti dealer services have been butchered. The only good Infiniti service we had is more than an hour away at Coconut Creek. A few weeks ago I took the FX in to a Nissan dealer and had them do an ATF fluid exchange and flush/bleed the brakes just because I was there and didn't have time to do it myself. I got the car back with the brake fluid filled to the brim - literally, the cap loose (with brake fluid leaking out and running down the sides of the master cyl) and the brake area plastic cover sitting on top of the engine. I took pictures, but haven't gone back yet. Luckily I checked, and had a mityvac to suck out the excess.

I haven't checked yet to see if they put the hose clamps back on the tranny cooler lines. I did look to make sure brake fluid wasn't leaking out of any loose bleeder valves. I saw on my receipt that they used 10 7/8th quarts of Matic S and Adative (that's how it was spelled on the receipt), I had to pay extra to use the OEM fluid (at the dealer!). I went there specifically because they said they could do it with Matic S and without the additive - but I would rather keep the additive than chance them doing another fluid change. And they may not have put it in anyway.

The next one down the road bent aluminum AC lines on the condenser out of the way and left out the bolts that would no longer attach said lines to the chassis after bending everything out of the way to get the radiator fans off without following the proper procedure. They also lost the rubber boots that keep the bottom of the airbox snugly in place. I made brackets and replaced the bolts and rubber boots and vowed not to go back. But it was free... That was one of those things that would have been fine for 25K and then, out of the blue I would have had an unrelated AC failure, which would not be unexpected at 130K.

BMW has been great so far, they come pick the car up and then bring it back at no charge. All they have done so far is oil changes and an alignment, but they have been doing them at half the recommended frequency (7K instead of 14K) with no complaints. I have verified that there is oil in the car each time.

The local Audi dealer treated us so badly we started taking it 100 miles north to one that appreciated our business, and they got a bunch of it until our warranty expired. With the sludge issues I wanted it to be documented in their system that we paid for M1 0w40 and Mahle filers twice as often as required if there was any question. They were great, but each oil change they lost a couple more clips.

We have a great local indy mechanic in Tequesta who has done every detail perfectly. I now bring him all the work I don't want to do. When he changes tires he cleans the inside of the rim so well they look brand new. I only went to the dealer for the fluid exchange because they should have the correct equipment and fluid. and I am ashamed to admit here that I made that mistake.

 

[Towncivilian]

Why does your Infiniti need some ATF additive? If you don't mind, could you PM me the names of the dealers you have had bad experiences with so I can avoid them?

I've had nothing but great service from Wallace Nissan of Stuart. Sometimes they forget to provide multi-point inspection sheets, but that's not too big of a concern. When I got a brake flush on my mother's '07 Altima the brake fluid reservoir was only half full with the strainer inside not firmly snapped into place. I topped it off to the "MAX" line and put the strainer in place. I told the service adviser of this the next day and he said it was likely just some air working its way out and he would let the techs know so it wouldn't happen again. Other than that, no real complaints to speak of.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Towncivilian
Why does your Infiniti need some ATF additive?


Exactly. My FSM specifically says to use Genuine Nissan Matic J (now S, I guess) with no additives.

 

[Colt45ws]

I think what he is saying is this dealer normally uses a generic ATF and then adds an additive to 'bring it up' to Nissan Matic J/S spec. He had to pay extra to get OEM N-M S and then still charged him for the additive.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
I think what he is saying is this dealer normally uses a generic ATF and then adds an additive to 'bring it up' to Nissan Matic J/S spec. He had to pay extra to get OEM N-M S and then still charged him for the additive.


No, BG and MOC have "supplement" additives that are added to the correct transmission fluid to "boost" their performance, lol.

 

[DirtyApe]

As far as dealer competency - A Ford dealer put 5/20 in my 5w30 spec'd Ecoboost twin turn motor. Good thing I checked the invoice, I turned around in the parking lot.

Their excuse was that they are used to using 5/20 in the F-150's and this 'simply slipped by'

One strike against the dealer, so going there isn't foolproof either unfortunately.

 

[CROWNVIC4LIFE]

Originally Posted By: mh2800
As far as dealer competency - A Ford dealer put 5/20 in my 5w30 spec'd Ecoboost twin turn motor. Good thing I checked the invoice, I turned around in the parking lot.

Their excuse was that they are used to using 5/20 in the F-150's and this 'simply slipped by'

One strike against the dealer, so going there isn't foolproof either unfortunately.


I have been short changed a quart of oil more then once buy the Ford dealer so I never leave any place without pulling the hood..So far that has been the only issue with Ford.

At least the Ford dealer will not sabotage car like some tire places down here do [like spraying oil underneath it] and telling you that you have a 850 buck oil leak issue..That happened to my mom before I came down here..But she left with the so called leak and had it checked out by a honest independent she was using at the time [he has since gone belly up] showed her what they had done..He said their was nothing wrong with the car..That was her 85 Vic..All she did was go in there for a oil change.

A friend of mine awhile back had issues with his a/c in his 97 Vic and went to a a/c shop that had a awesome reputation..Within a couple of months his a/c was acting up again..He went back several times and each time it only lasted for about a month..He ended going to Ford to have it fixed properly.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: CROWNVIC4LIFE
I have been short changed a quart of oil more then once by the Ford dealer so I never leave any place without pulling the hood..So far that has been the only issue with Ford.

At least the Ford dealer will not sabotage car like some tire places down here do [like spraying oil underneath it] and telling you that you have a 850 buck oil leak issue..That happened to my mom before I came down here. But she left with the so called leak and had it checked out by a honest independent she was using at the time [he has since gone belly up] showed her what they had done..He said their was nothing wrong with the car..That was her 85 Vic..All she did was go in there for a oil change.

A friend of mine awhile back had issues with his a/c in his 97 Vic and went to a a/c shop that had a awesome reputation..Within a couple of months his a/c was acting up again..He went back several times and each time it only lasted for about a month..He ended going to Ford to have it fixed properly.

Honest independent garage could not survive in this economy. Overhead cost is too high, charging reasonable price for actual work to cover the expenses will turn potential customers away, charging less is not enough to pay rent, insurance, tax, fees ...

The dishonest garages overcharge for no work done or little work will be the only ones remaining.

 

[fiddler2068]

Dealers or Stealerships are just as bad, if not worse than the independent. They have bigger bills and have to upsell more. Here's my recent experience with a dealer. I was so incensed I am doing the work myself because they are incompetent and can't find the actual problem but they upsell a lot.

I have a 2000 CR-V. It is at 168,000 miles. I took it into a dealer for a oil change and the coolant was leaking from somewhere, it took them 5 long hours. I couldn't figure out what they were doing until the rep came out with a whole list of things he "recommended" needs to be done.

He claimed the radiator was leaking. $800 for a radiator change.
caps and rotors $320, never mind that it was changed at 120,000
front sway bar links $370
rear sway bar links $390
fuel injector cleaning $140
oil pan leak $710
A-pipe flange $944
timing belt and water pump $900 changed at 120,000
valve adjustment $170 changed at 120,000

I almost laughed in his face. I told him i would think about it. So here is the situation with my car.

Radiator leak. $100 on the internet and about 3-4 hours of work, if that long. Turns out the radiator wasn't leaking. It took me several days of looking around because i didn't have a flashlight. The lower hose is leaking. Lower hose $14. The stealership wanted $800 to repair something that cost $14 and maybe an hour. 70 times profit for them.

Did you know that there is a dye that you put into the radiator or the oil or AC system and it will show you where the leak is? UV LED flashlight $15. Dye $3. I don't believe that a dealer did not have this. So he outright lied his [censored] off to sell me something that didn't need doing.

I got a large piece of cardboard and slid under the car to look at it. The right rear sway bar link is broken and needs to be replaced. The others are fine. I pulled and yanked on them. The sway bar link (a moog) that i bought is heavy duty. twice the thickness of the Honda one, $40. replacement takes two nuts. that's it. so 10 times profit for them. Oh i forgot they wanted the front ones replaced too, even though it is fine so actually 20 times profit for them.

Fuel injector cleaning is [censored]. put in a fuel injector cleaner. 5 seconds and about $5 that you can get at any auto parts store.

Oil pan leak. I have had this car for 11 years. I check the dipstick once a month or so. No change in oil level. Under the car, the oil pan was somewhat oily. Looking closer, i noticed a bolt missing from the oil pan!? It did NOT work itself out. I have no idea which [censored] did that but I am not happy. Oil pan did not need replacing, it looked perfectly fine, no holes or damage of any kind. so $708 pure profit. Replacing it involved draining oil and putting a new gasket on it and bolting on 10 bolts. wow, oil pan $100 on internet. so $600 for about 10 minutes work. these guys charge more than lawyers!

A-pipe flange. Its actually pipe A flange. i found it in the service manual. Looked at it on the car. nothing wrong with it. no leak, nothing. He just figures maybe i won't know what that is and get $943 from me. Pipe A is about $100 or so on the net. and it involves 4-5 bolts. wow, don't know if i can do that. so another [censored] "repair".

total: ~$4500 in "repairs" that is not needed.

Trust a stealership? no friggin way. I have all this documented. Took pictures and everything. If you are in MA, stay far away from Kelly Honda.

I have been to many Honda dealerships, this is typical rather than the exception. So buyer beware.

With one repair you can pay for all the tools and never have to be at the mercy of a stealership again. This isn't just Honda dealers, most of them are like this.

fiddler

 

[fiddler2068]

Originally Posted By: CROWNVIC4LIFE

At least the Ford dealer will not sabotage car like some tire places down here do [like spraying oil underneath it] and telling you that you have a 850 buck oil leak issue..That happened to my mom before I came down here..But she left with the so called leak and had it checked out by a honest independent she was using at the time [he has since gone belly up] showed her what they had done..He said their was nothing wrong with the car..That was her 85 Vic..All she did was go in there for a oil change.


Holy cow, i wonder if that is why i have a little bit of oil on the oilpan. I can't find where it is leaking from even though i spent a good 10 minutes looking. Oh and 1 bolt is gone from the oil pan. I didn't remove it and I am absolute certain it didn't work itself out. The odd thing is, if there is a oil leak, it should be coming from there. Yet, the spot where the bolt goes is spotless, free of oil. I check the dipstick and there is no loss of oil at all, even after 3000 miles and 2 months.

fiddler