Going Conventional... am I nuts...?

[kschachn]

OP, i'm pulling your leg. Conventional is unquestionably a better product but Conventional at appropriate intervals should serve you well.

I assume you meant "synthetic" is a better product?

It gets a bit silly since today's synthetic oils are predominantly Group III base stocks which are chemically similar and structurally similar to Group I and Group II stocks. The differences are not something that would be perceived by a user. They are in a higher viscosity index and less saturates, sulfur and other contaminates. Unless one is actually comparing against a predominately Group IV oil I don't see how there is any perceptible difference.

Plus which of today's oils that carry a modern API license are entirely Group I or II? Even if you are somehow not using hydrocracked base stock, the performance target for Group III is still being met.

 

[wemay]

I assume you meant "synthetic" is a better product?

It gets a bit silly since today's synthetic oils are predominantly Group III base stocks which are chemically similar and structurally similar to Group I and Group II stocks. The differences are not something that would be perceived by a user. They are in a higher viscosity index and less saturates, sulfur and other contaminates. Unless one is actually comparing against a predominately Group IV oil I don't see how there is any perceptible difference.

Plus which of today's oils that carry a modern API license are entirely Group I or II? Even if you are somehow not using hydrocracked base stock, the performance target for Group III is still being met.

Thanks, fixed it.

 

[daves87rs]

We might all be crazy, lol.

Older stuff one could debate, but some of these newer engines really need that synthetic for sure……..

 

[Cujet]

"Synthetic Cult"

I get it, there are differences. But when you look at modern vehicles, with stick-prone low tension piston rings, quirky variable valve timing mechanisms, and all manner of internal complexity. Keeping the stupidly expensive mechanical parts clean, free of sludge, varnish and long-term operational is the goal of a smart consumer.



In the old days:

A failure prone VVT solenoid:

 

[4WD]

I get it, there are differences. But when you look at modern vehicles, with stick-prone low tension piston rings, quirky variable valve timing mechanisms, and all manner of internal complexity. Keeping the stupidly expensive mechanical parts clean, free of sludge, varnish and long-term operational is the goal of a smart consumer.



In the old days:

A failure prone VVT solenoid:

Yep - many OEM approvals exist over these nuances …

 

[gfh77665]

My motorcycles run and shift 1000% better on conventional. My gears, vastly prefer conventional.

1000% better?

Well OK then, LOL.

 

[gman2304]

My old 2009 Harley Superglide just rolled over 50,000 miles this week using Valvoline Vr1 20w50 conventional, and Harley Formula+ conventional in the primary, but I do use Redline Shockproof synthetic in the transmission. Ive tried Redline and Motul synthetics in my primary and neither shifts as positive or more smoothly than the Harley Formula + conventional. I do use either semi synthetics or full synthetics in my truck and cars.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Plus which of today's oils that carry a modern API license are entirely Group I or II?

Valvoline daily protection 10W-30 is and is SP rated.. There 5W-30 is not conventional - it says "semi syn" on the bottle.

Not saying its good or bad. My Xterra hasn't blown up yet, so there is that.

 

[wemay]

I get it, there are differences. But when you look at modern vehicles, with stick-prone low tension piston rings, quirky variable valve timing mechanisms, and all manner of internal complexity. Keeping the stupidly expensive mechanical parts clean, free of sludge, varnish and long-term operational is the goal of a smart consumer.



In the old days:

A failure prone VVT solenoid:

100%

BTW, I didn't say Synthetic Cult, I was quoting the OP.

 

[StumblingElk]

What do you mean by your vehicles preferring conventional, exactly?

 

[BigJohn]

Wow... I stirred the synthetic hornets nest. I'm just saying, I spent a lot of money the past couple of decades on expensive synthetic and I don't think it was necessary. Even going so far to say that convention is better is some applications.

Another thing that impacted me recently was the non-negotiable requirement that my new gears in my Jeep Wrangler be swamped in conventional gear oil. The instructions stated.... "Only convention gear oil. Absolutely no synthetic gear oils."



.......

 

[Ursatdx]

Are there any true "conventional" oil available?

 

[meep]

I’ve not been on a bike in a long time. Back when I was, the common wisdom was conventional worked better in the clutch; synthetic oil was said to sometimes cause slippage issues.

Today’s conventionals are quite better than they were 20 years ago. Plenty of RVers run ford semi syn in their turbocharged ecoboost to 200k with towing and they go just fine.

I have personally found my own vehicles to stay cleaner inside the engine once going to synthetic, so for a “cage” I’ll keep synthetic in them, everywhere I can. I also tend not to change oil early.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Are there any true "conventional" oil available?

See my post 28

 

[ripcord]

We might all be crazy, lol.

Older stuff one could debate, but some of these newer engines really need that synthetic for sure……..

The voices in my head can confirm this with a high degree of certainty.

 

[nomas]

Are there any true "conventional" oil available?

I found some 30 wt conventional oil at Walmart but it was labelled not to be used for engines . I got it for my pressure washer pump .

 

[twX]

I use conventional for motorcycles, and synthetic for cars.

It's mostly the lighter base stocks used for 0-5W oils where synthetics really outperform conventional, since they have much better flashpoint, volatility, and VI in these viscosities. For thicker grades with low VI, like 10W-30 or 15W-40, these differences are small, and conventional base stocks still perform well enough that the differences don't really matter.

 

[JRay’07]

Are there any true "conventional" oil available?

That depends on what your definition of conventional oil is.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/interesting-article-from-fuchs-silkolene-chemist.116805/
"Before we get into details, the first thing to realise that there is no chalk and cheese difference between mineral and synthetic based oils. After all, the chemical compounds which make mineral engine oils so much better are themselves synthetic." -John Rowland (Oil Expert)

 

[IndyIan]

Ok.. been on here for a while... I have tried nearly every dang oil a man can buy.... For a decade I was on the synthetic train. Then a combination of motorcycles and gears and a couple of 4 and 6 bangers...... convinced me that I needed to depart the synthetic cult.

My motorcycles run and shift 1000% better on conventional. My gears, vastly prefer conventional.

To be fair, my engines on my cages seem to love a conventional...... or a semi-synthetic.

Am I nuts.... or am I just coming around to wisdom?

I just did a conventional oil change on the Focus as I couldn't find any synthetic on for a good price. It has no modern engine features, doesn't run particularly hot and I'm not planning on driving it hard this summer, so it will be fine for for 6-8k miles on whatever shell put in the bottle for motomaster 5W30 conventional.
I have run the Outback on PYB 5W30 for a change too, and to be honest, I suspect the 0W20 "synthetic" bulk oil the dealer used was not any better... It was producing varnish from their first change.

 

[ATex7239]

I was a conventional guy until the late 2000’s. Except in a few modified engines. But blends and FS are competitively priced and are pretty much specified for most things now.

My engines don’t love anything as they are machines. They do however operate as designed based on the use of properly specified parts and fluids.