Goal for ATF drain and fills, when are you "satisfied?"

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Funny - to me this sounds like a typical dealership's response.

I've done my own work on my vehicles since high school and will continue to do so.
Funny you would know that?
As far as I am aware most all dealership do not do a full fluid replacement? And very few Factory Service Manual outline the procedure. Hence the Lifetime Fluid and not service Transmission that seem to have come into the industry since around 2000"s?
And doing a service since you were in Highschool never means you ever did it right. LOL
 
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Because they know what they're talking about.
Um ..golley OK like OE have never been inaccurate about any procedure or service? Please any of you ever read TSB's. LOL What I said was get you fluid tested and then come back and state who/whom may have a little better information to best serve and help people!
:cautious:

This thread is almost as bad as another that you all DIY are still thinking that the color bright RED ATF is good and darker color RED ATF is bad...... LOL

Sometime it just gets to funny I wonder how many of you argue and debate with your doctors , I bet you find what's wrong with you first on the internet and then tell the doctor what he/she needs to do to help you. LOL

When a customer comes to me for service and then tells me how to fix their car I smile and say , "I got a service bay and hoist free and a full tool box, have at it!" LOL
 
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Um ..golley OK like OE have never been inaccurate about any procedure or service? Please any of you ever read TSB's. LOL What I said was get you fluid tested and then come back and state who/whom may have a little better information to best serve and help people!
:cautious:
I can agree with your principle- but multiple OE’s have come out with this position in recent years. It isn’t just one isolated example.

Also, there is plenty of mixing that takes place when you use a fluid exchange machine. And that is if you can still use one. Many of the newer transmissions use the puck style warmers that do not run any lines to the radiator.
 
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I can agree with your principle- but multiple OE’s have come out with this position in recent years. It isn’t just one isolated example.

Also, there is plenty of mixing that takes place when you use a fluid exchange machine. And that is if you can still use one. Many of the newer transmissions use the puck style warmers that do not run any lines to the radiator.
OK LOL I use in the shop a Flow Dynamic's. It is 2 years old, not at the shop the get the model no. but I remember when I recommend it the cost was about 4500.00. And hate to tell you but it replaces almost 99.9% of all the fluid in a transmission and can clean the internal if set to do so all to the point that oil analysis on a couple of random checks show completely the type oil and viscosity data.

Look you can as keep following any information you want, I hope you never have a transmission fail . Those in the business know a little more what really goes on and not everyone comes to forums and talks about their issues with warranties they have with an OE Auto manufacture. ;)
 
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Then why do numerous OEM's - such as Honda and Ford, specify this as the only approved fluid replacement method in the Service Information?
Many OE spec the line off exchange method also, Infiniti, Some Honda, Saab, Nissan, MB, BMW and others. I don't remember all years, makes and models but I use this method by default, doing drain and fill on some large fluid capacity to exchange the fluid can get very expensive if using top shelf fluid (I have no problem with a singe drain and fill for regular maintenance). One example..

line off.jpg


Edit: On the units that use thermostats there may be no other option or you need to circumvent the external thermostat which is easy enough to do on many.
 
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Everyone remember,if you want your vehicle repairs done "right" be sure to look for the Blue Seal of Excellence, the nationally recognized ASE emblem on a certificate, on the front door.

😂
Thats right...... and if you know how the legitimate service shops get them you would also look for the ASE certifications often hung on the wall and the name and dates of the Auto Technician that achieved getting them!

As for me I am still new to the game as an ASE as I only have been one and current for 39 years and most of those ASE MASTER Automotive Technician L1 & L2 certified. This means that every 2 years I need to re-test. And being an ASE is only a small part of my experence in the automotive industry. ROLMAO! ;)
 

JC1

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I'm good with the ATF change with a pan drop and partial fluid change.

Some of your guys are so OCD, I'm surprised you don't head over to the Red Cross every 60 million heartbeats and get a full blood exchange if you could. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
 

CharlesInCharge

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Let's please stop the snarky personal attacks, since it benefits nobody.

I have 2 legitimate questions.

Question 1:
What causes a bright red cranberry color ATF to turn to a dark crimson colored ATF after tens or hundred(s) thousand miles? My theory is that it absorbs contaminants, and changes chemistry when it gets worn. By a process of elimination, it has not improved its ability to lubricate as noted by the contrast between new fluid (in the optimal condition) and old dark fluid (in a worn condition). Therefore it's only logical that every worn quart replaced with a new quart, would normally be an improvement in the overall lubricating properties of the total amount of fluid.

In other words, if I'm given a glass of very dirty cloudy water and continually dilute it by removing 25% and replacing 25% with clean water, after about 5-10 iterations I'm left with mostly clean water. This would be very easy and free to demonstrate.

Question 2:
With so many manufacturers actually suggesting a drain and fill, why is that a bad recommendation? One could accomplish a 90% replacement of fluids for probably $100 and yes, some wasted new fluid. But that's a very small expenditure compared to the value of the transmission.
 
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I'm good with the ATF change with a pan drop and partial fluid change.

Some of your guys are so OCD, I'm surprised you don't head over to the Red Cross every 60 million heartbeats and get a full blood exchange if you could. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Ya I know I can be more assertive at times (not sure OCD is the definition) but then I have almost no "angry customers" that return due to a service procedure NOT performed and should have been , or not done the best way. The logic here... a Full Transmission service is about 300 parts and labor most shops. Unless during the pan drop large amounts of friction material or metal chunks are found the investment of 300 dollars can save you serval thousand dollars if your transmission fails because of some lame 1/2 done, MYTH supported service procedure found on a forum with mostly all DIY participating with recommendations because they did it to a couple of their own vehicles and it worked for them? :unsure:
Ok well as I must often say its you vehicles and you will do what you want anyway. :(
 
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I have 2 legitimate questions.

Question 1:
What causes a bright red cranberry color ATF to turn to a dark crimson colored ATF after tens or hundred(s) thousand miles? My theory is that it absorbs contaminants, and changes chemistry when it gets worn.

Question 2:
With so many manufacturers actually suggesting a drain and fill, why is that a bad recommendation? One could accomplish a 90% replacement of fluids for probably $100 and yes, some wasted new fluid. But that's a very small expenditure compared to the value of the transmission.
#1) On new transmission you can no longer really go by the color to determine the a true condition of the transmission fluid. There are other things that are not damaging that can and does change the color of the fluid.

#2) This dilution factor which was appropriately posted earlier in this thread a "therory" does not work when it comes to a automatic Transmission fluid be way of only a pan oil change. Its simple math you all are not extending it out by a better of x4 tables which would be more accurate. And you would need to do the pan empty and fill at less miles closer to only a few hundred. So do the money math.... LOL

Here is a picture of ATF in a transmission that has less then 25k miles. By what you all are suggestion all this could be removed with the dilution formula. Look at the color of the ATF on the dip stick and the mess in the pan and on the magnet. This is also very typical of move FORD and MAZDA Transmission that are claimed lifetime or only a 50k miles service.
 

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CharlesInCharge

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#1) On new transmission you can no longer really go by the color to determine the a true condition of the transmission fluid. There are other things that are not damaging that can and does change the color of the fluid.

#2) This dilution factor which was appropriately posted earlier in this thread a "therory" does not work when it comes to a automatic Transmission fluid be way of only a pan oil change. Its simple math you all are not extending it out by a better of x4 tables which would be more accurate. And you would need to do the pan empty and fill at less miles closer to only a few hundred. So do the money math.... LOL

Here is a picture of ATF in a transmission that has less then 25k miles. By what you all are suggestion all this could be removed with the dilution formula. Look at the color of the ATF on the dip stick and the mess in the pan and on the magnet. This is also very typical of move FORD and MAZDA Transmission that are claimed lifetime or only a 50k miles service.

If you re-read my original post, I stated that ultimately a pan drop and filter replacement is in order. That's going to require me (and probably others) either making significant efforts or taking it into the shop for an afternoon and $200 bill. And a "pan drop" is also only getting ~25% of the fluid. Yes, it's a good step. Seems you're missing the point though.

You're advocating a pan drop, filter replacement, magnet cleaning. I'm not disagreeing. I'm stating that I want to quickly get out as much old and replace with as much new without great hassle, risk of damage or expense.

1. "On a new transmission." I'm not talking about "new transmissions" am I? I'm talking about "high mileage" transmissions, which implies 10-20 years old.

2. The "simple math" has been postulated. It's a graduated case of diminished returns but certainly extracting SOME contaminated fluid and replacing it with new and presumably better fluid. It's not harmful, and likely beneficial, and not expensive at $5 per qt, and very easy with a drain plug or a Mityvac that can get 25% out.
 
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LOL LOL LOL You really need to what a dilution formal means and also more about automatic transmissions
My whole shop is now laughing and I have a Castrol Rep here and he is laughing at your and a couple other responses on this thread as well.
So here the thing. I had hoped someone would ask about the pictures. NOPE you would rather the waste the time to support your less then realistic, not workable, no empirical data to support it and frankly goes against what the dilution facture was designed for which was NOT automatics transmission fluid in a automatic trans mission. LOL I can see with out a drought most have never taken apart a valve body or cut open a to converter. LOL
The pictures.

The fluid was a carefully and meticulously maintained MAZDA 3. The fluid is MAZDA and was originally bright RED when MAZDA filled the transmission. Mazda service schedule for the Transmission does not include a full service with replacement fluid. ODD here is why. FORD and MAZDA both have service scheduling for the FILTER get F....I....L....T...E...R! to get to the FILTER you must drop the pan. To drop the pan you must drain the pan. LOL see where this is going? So some of you NOW THINK that some auto manufactures are claiming this is a fluid service? I am almost certain not one auto manufacture show a dilution formula for any automatics transmission? But hey I have not looked at every one out their. Please post one FACTORY SERVICE MANUAL that does!

So back to the pictures. When I pulled the dip stick I said WTF>>>>>>> the fluid smelled bad and was really dark color. Now I have seen dark colored ATF before but generally you can small burnt transmission parts. This smelled unlike anything I had smelled in the past. Because it is the new MAZDA continuously-variable and dual-clutch transmissions. And at that point I had not yet had to take one apart. You can see where this may be going? This was my MAZDA.
Sooooo I sent in a sample.
It reveled NOTHING wrong and all normal. OK well for me having all that CRAP left in my transmission for the next few years did not set well. So I first did a simple filter service because I was in my garage and then the following week a full fluid replacement. Glad I did. I will find a picture of the fluid that came out even after that 5QT fluid /filter change. I now have what we all like to see nice healthy looking and smelling RED ATF. I will say there are still metals being captured on my 2 magnets in the pan but that will happen for likely another 1000 miles because it is still normal wear particle for a new transmission of this type.

Please notice that I cropped the first pictures so it would not give away what I was doing.

And here is the oil I had analyzed. They even picked up the minute traces of water that was left from the clear tubing I washed and thought had dry fopr pulling the sample of oil at the dip stick area. LOL
 

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And a short little video of the magnet fun


 

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LOL LOL LOL You really need to what a dilution formal means and also more about automatic transmissions
My whole shop is now laughing and I have a Castrol Rep here and he is laughing at your and a couple other responses on this thread as well.
So here the thing. I had hoped someone would ask about the pictures. NOPE you would rather the waste the time to support your less then realistic, not workable, no empirical data to support it and frankly goes against what the dilution facture was designed for which was NOT automatics transmission fluid in a automatic trans mission. LOL I can see with out a drought most have never taken apart a valve body or cut open a to converter. LOL
The pictures.

The fluid was a carefully and meticulously maintained MAZDA 3. The fluid is MAZDA and was originally bright RED when MAZDA filled the transmission. Mazda service schedule for the Transmission does not include a full service with replacement fluid. ODD here is why. FORD and MAZDA both have service scheduling for the FILTER get F....I....L....T...E...R! to get to the FILTER you must drop the pan. To drop the pan you must drain the pan. LOL see where this is going? So some of you NOW THINK that some auto manufactures are claiming this is a fluid service? I am almost certain not one auto manufacture show a dilution formula for any automatics transmission? But hey I have not looked at every one out their. Please post one FACTORY SERVICE MANUAL that does!

So back to the pictures. When I pulled the dip stick I said WTF>>>>>>> the fluid smelled bad and was really dark color. Now I have seen dark colored ATF before but generally you can small burnt transmission parts. This smelled unlike anything I had smelled in the past. Because it is the new MAZDA continuously-variable and dual-clutch transmissions. And at that point I had not yet had to take one apart. You can see where this may be going? This was my MAZDA.
Sooooo I sent in a sample.
It reveled NOTHING wrong and all normal. OK well for me having all that CRAP left in my transmission for the next few years did not set well. So I first did a simple filter service because I was in my garage and then the following week a full fluid replacement. Glad I did. I will find a picture of the fluid that came out even after that 5QT fluid /filter change. I now have what we all like to see nice healthy looking and smelling RED ATF. I will say there are still metals being captured on my 2 magnets in the pan but that will happen for likely another 1000 miles because it is still normal wear particle for a new transmission of this type.

Please notice that I cropped the first pictures so it would not give away what I was doing.

And here is the oil I had analyzed. They even picked up the minute traces of water that was left from the clear tubing I washed and thought had dry fopr pulling the sample of oil at the dip stick area. LOL
Are you sure that the original fluid was red?
 
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Are you sure that the original fluid was red?
Yes because I have serviced one customers MAZDA and I can remember at least 2 others we did the fluid/filter service on. I constantly walk through the shop and look at the jobs being done. I personally take interest in the MAZDAs that have Skyactiv engine/transmission that come in for many types of service. The MAZDA Transmission fluid is RED
But I dont use it I use CASTROL ATF. Oh its RED as well
 
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