Go For Windows 7 or Windows 8.1?

[Mystic]

Actually I think they did sell Linux computers at Wal-Mart. I am not sure completely but didn't they sell Lindows or whatever it was called at Wal-Mart Stores?

I can go to a store where I live where they build Windows gaming computers and buy a Linux operating system computer. I have already seen such a computer. The people in the store showed it to me. It was a laptop running some version of Linux.

There also was another Linux operating system computer being sold but I totally cannot remember the name.

And I think it was Dell that at least for a while was selling Linux operating system computers. I don't know if they still do or not but a person could order one.

And nobody needs to tell me that there are alternative computer operating systems to Windows. I have used a Unix computer at work and I have used Windows and Apple Computers for a long time. Plus I have used various Linux operating systems for special purposes and I tried SuSE years ago.

And Android runs on some version of Linux doesn't it?

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
Maybe someday it will be possible here for Linux users to accept Windows users and Windows users to accept Apple users. Maybe someday we can all agree that computer technology is just technology and let us use whatever works the best. If Linux works the best for some applications fine. If Windows works the best for some applications fine. And so forth.

And maybe someday we can learn to respect or not respect somebody based on what they do. I respect Bill Gates and Melinda Gates for donating millions and I think billions of dollars to the poor throughout the world. I don't have a lot of respect for somebody who talks about freedom when it comes to software and then praises a dictator.

But for some people there is no right and no wrong and everything is relative.

I think you take this stuff a little too seriously. Pretty sure most people use a combination of everyone's product at some point. I'm typing this on a machine running Mint that was preloaded with Windows 8 while looking at an ipod sitting on the desk.

Now if you want to get into hate. I hate Intel. AMD 4 life.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
Actually I think they did sell Linux computers at Wal-Mart. I am not sure completely but didn't they sell Lindows or whatever it was called at Wal-Mart Stores?

That's certainly possible. I don't think they did up here, though. Our Walmarts do have a pretty sparse computer department.

And yes, there certainly are options at more computer oriented stores, obviously. That is more attractive these days with the ease of installing the OS.

The Dell example is a two-edged sword, so beware. Microsoft raised such a stink over the issue that Dell Canada did not sell a Linux based system for the longest time, if ever.

We do have to remember that Microsoft has been on top of the pile for 25 years, and there is a significant segment of the population that knows of nothing beyond Microsoft products.

 

[Mystic]

AMD is cheaper but I typically use Intel, but I sometimes have used AMD. I have owned three custom built Windows computers. I like custom built and I never buy a Dell or other computer brands any more.

I also own an iMac and I really like Mac OS X but I am increasingly becoming really fed up with Apple. I don't think Apple cares much about its desktop computer users anymore. If they toss Aperture and just come out with some glorified version of iPhoto this fall I think I will be done with them. I can run Adobe Lightroom on my iMac but I can also run it on my Windows computer. Which makes the Apple Computer unnecessary.

I was really angry at Microsoft when they first came out with Windows 8. But after I found out about Start8 software I did not worry much about it. I think Microsoft has got rid of most of the executives responsible for Windows 8.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Some guys here are saying that Win 8.1 runs noticeably faster than Win 7. What are you guys using as the measuring tool for that ... boot-up time, running certain applications, etc? Can you give some examples that have led you to conclude that?


There is what I would call a very well-established set of data that demonstrates that Windows 8's performance bests that of Windows 7 in most measurable areas. Here are a few links:

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2406668,00.asp

http://usabilitygeek.com/windows-8-vs-windows-7-speed-and-performance-testing/

http://www.zdnet.com/windows-8-vs-windows-7-benchmarked-7000002671/

You can find many more out there as well.

Windows 8 is not always faster, but it usually is. I think the take-away is that you are getting a higher level of security with Windows 8, and additional features (such as those I listed earlier, like File History, Wi-Fi sharing, etc), without the common "bloat" with a new version of Windows. Windows 7 and 8 are now two consecutive versions of Windows that generally run better and/or faster than their predecessor. That wasn't hard coming from Vista, but Windows 7 is a great operating system, and version 8/8.1 is getting even more performance out of the same hardware.

That makes be optimistic about version 9, whenever that comes out.

 

[Win]

Originally Posted By: Garak
..... Bill Gates got where he is, to put it bluntly, by shoving his operating system down every throat in sight and for many, many years. .....


He was a pretty big cheese before windows 3.1.

CP/M really didn't go anywhere until it became DOS - our Osborne used it, and the hobbyist 8080 kits used it, but I don't recall much else.

If I recall correctly, the TRS-DOS that ran my Model IV was an MS license product. I don't remember who licensed the LDOS for the hard drive operating system - I don't think that was MS, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was.

The Xenix that ran the model 12 was, as best I recall, an MS licensed product. Xenix ran a lot, maybe most, of the early small, small, business computers, not just the Tandy products.

Down here you could walk into any Best Buy or other software shop and see boxes of PC-DOS, OS/2, and DR-DOS (Kildall's next OS, I think - may have had a different name), and various flavors of Linux at that time, I recall Redhat and, I think SuSe, maybe others. I can go out into my radio room and grab a box of any of them, except maybe SuSe, and I may have a box of that, or some other Linux discs.

Sure preinstalled was a huge advantage for MS, but their stuff also worked better than anything else at the time.

For most people, it still does.

 

[Mystic]

Well, it works better for me. And I will use what works.

I think if Apple wanted to they could support a lot of software and hardware also. One thing I don't like about Apple is that often when they have a new O/S suddenly my printer and scanner will not work for a while. That usually does not happen with Windows.

The other thing I don't like about Apple is that it seems they are going to toss Aperture and maybe just have a glorified version of iPhoto. We will probably see for sure this fall. A glorified version of iPhoto is not going to cut it for me. I am 100% convinced that Aperture could have been a great photo editing program and it a few ways it is still better than Adobe Lightroom. But Lightroom has continued to advance with lens distortion correction and other technology and most Aperture users have already long since moved on. I personally have not used Aperture for months. I can say goodbye to Apple. No problem.

For people who do a lot with a computer Windows continues to be the best choice.

And Win has shown that contrary to what some have said Linux was available. After he brought that up I could recall seeing Redhat and other Linux operating systems in stores a long time ago and also OS/2, which I almost bought. In fact I remember a lot of discussion about Redhat in magazines, also discussion about OS/2 and Java. Some people were talking as if Java would replace Windows. That there would be operating systems running on Java. So Linux operating systems and other operating systems did have their chance in the marketplace. And they flopped.

Today most people dearly would love to get rid of Java completely. It is probably the biggest security risk on the internet. People are trying to get rid of Adobe Flash also. And nobody has to use Adobe PDF Reader. There are other PDF readers available.

I still believe that OS/2 could have been better than Microsoft Windows if IBM had put the effort in. But it is all history now and we have all moved on.

So today if a person has very limited needs for a computer a computer running some version of Linux would be fine.

For people who do a lot of different things with a computer Windows is probably the best choice.

 

[hatt]

The people who have "very limited needs" are the overwhelming majority of the people. Most people could, and many do, get by with their phones.

 

[Mystic]

And business will continue to use Windows.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: hatt
The people who have "very limited needs" are the overwhelming majority of the people. Most people could, and many do, get by with their phones.


This is becoming truer by the day. With the advent of the cloud, and with people storing their stuff on the cloud, the hardware and operating system today, probably more than any time in the past, is purely a tool.

I have a lot of stuff in the cloud on Dropbox. It was in Google Drive, but that doesn't support Linux, so it's in Dropbox now. I access that stuff on a Windows 8.1 desktop, a laptop dual-booting Win7 and Xubuntu, a laptop dual-booting XP and Xubuntu, a desktop booting only Xubuntu, our iPhones, our iPad, an Android tablet, and our Chromebook.

So we use all of it (Windows XP/7/8, Xubuntu, iOS, Android, Chrome OS). The OS is simply a tool. It's a means to the end, and not the end itself.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
And business will continue to use Windows.
Who cares? Who's targeting businesses with free software? Mary Commons can probably get away with LibreOffice instead of paying $100/yr for Office 365 to do basic stuff. If she only knew she had a choice.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Win
He was a pretty big cheese before windows 3.1.

Definitely.

Originally Posted By: Win
If I recall correctly, the TRS-DOS that ran my Model IV was an MS license product. I don't remember who licensed the LDOS for the hard drive operating system - I don't think that was MS, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was.

I'm not sure any longer. I had a Model IV as well, but I'd have to hunt down the documentation and see what it says. I know the Model IV architecture could also run CP/M.

Originally Posted By: Win
Sure preinstalled was a huge advantage for MS, but their stuff also worked better than anything else at the time.

Remember that Radio Shack even began to ship IBM compatible computers. With that, and Commodore's troubles, it was the beginning of the end for non-MS commercial operating systems.

One would be hard pressed to say that the Microsoft OS contemporary to the Amiga OS was superior in any way, shape or form.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
So Linux operating systems and other operating systems did have their chance in the marketplace. And they flopped.

In the grand scheme of things, why would anyone with even a modicum of skills purchase a Linux distribution when many are available for free? And Red Hat wasn't exactly targeted at the general public.

Originally Posted By: Mystic
For people who do a lot with a computer Windows continues to be the best choice.

That's extremely debatable.

Originally Posted By: Mystic
So today if a person has very limited needs for a computer a computer running some version of Linux would be fine.

Same deal. Some of the most highly skilled computer users in the world are using Linux, and for some rather varied applications.

The only possible reasons I'd have for using Windows at home would be the photo-editing matter you mention and gaming.

 

[97tbird]

Just out of curiosity checked the price for Win 8.1 Pro:
$200 ! Yeesh!

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: 97tbird
Just out of curiosity checked the price for Win 8.1 Pro:
$200 ! Yeesh!
You can get the OEM version for a mere $140.

 

[Win]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Mystic
So Linux operating systems and other operating systems did have their chance in the marketplace. And they flopped.

In the grand scheme of things, why would anyone with even a modicum of skills purchase a Linux distribution when many are available for free? And Red Hat wasn't exactly targeted at the general public ....


I looked at my Red Hat Box. It was ver 5.2, so that would be 1997? Hate to think what downloading that would have taken at 28.8.

Also found a box of Linux power tools, or something like that, from the same era, still in the shrink wrap. A Linux time capsule, I guess. I'm sure I bought these at Best Buy, so I'd say Redhat and Linux were being marketed to the general public at that time.

Couldn't find any old SuSe but I'm pretty sure I have a box of it somewhere, maybe in the warehouse of junk.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Win
I looked at my Red Hat Box. It was ver 5.2, so that would be 1997? Hate to think what downloading that would have taken at 28.8.

No worse than updating Win 98 to SP 2 back in those days, either, right? Of course, back in those days, one could get a CD from Windows (or some Linux distros) shipped for free. That's what I did with SP 2 in Win 98 and my first Netscape install. As for marketing Red Hat to the general public back in those days, I'm skeptical. Linux was primitive enough at the time that someone with even a fairly strong skill set would have issues. If by the general public you mean the hobbyist subset of the general public, perhaps.

As for 98tbird's mention of Windows Pro's price at $200, I'd characterize that as "reasonable," by my standards. I wouldn't want to be paying for an OS, but if I were in a position where it were necessary or desirable (i.e. a gaming perspective), I could, perhaps, live with it.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: 97tbird
Just out of curiosity checked the price for Win 8.1 Pro:
$200 ! Yeesh!
You can get the OEM version for a mere $140.


Link: Win 8.1 64-bit for $84.99 @ Newegg

With promo code: EMCPDWG37

Expires at 11:59PM PT on 6/15/2014.

 

[Mystic]

The bottom line is various Linux operating systems and also OS/2 and of course Apple operating systems were being marketed. It is simply not true that they did not have their chance in the marketplace. I had pretty much forgotten about a lot of that until what Win said reminded me. Heck, I almost bought OS/2. It was available in a boxed version at some store. And I now do remember Red Hat. I think it was available in a boxed version.

IBM did not do a good job marketing OS/2. I liked OS/2 a lot myself.

People choose Windows and today hundreds of millions of computers worldwide use some version of Windows.

Linux operating systems have never been successful in much of the business world except as servers. And the IT people where I worked would not touch Linux.

Apple operating systems have not been very successful in the business world except early and in certain industries like computer graphics. And if Apple trashes their professional software (like Aperture) there is little reason to use Apple Computers in the computer graphics field. I can remember a time when a person just about had to use Apple Computers if you were going to do computer graphics. Today, Windows computers will work just fine.

Of course in the consumer area many people never get beyond the internet, email, Facebook and Twitter. Since these people have extremely limited needs a Linux operating system computer would work for them.

I sometimes wonder how much longer Apple will even make desktop computers. They are the iPhone company to a large degree. And even when it comes to cellphones and tablet computers they are facing stiff competition.

I will stay with my Windows desktop computer. It works. And a nice, large monitor when I work on photos and videos. Instead of paying a lot of money every year for a shiny new iPhone I just update the same computer. And while I work on photos and create videos I can watch people text each other on their cellphones while they sit side by side. I prefer what I am doing.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
The bottom line is various Linux operating systems and also OS/2 and of course Apple operating systems were being marketed.

I still maintain that Red Hat wouldn't have been a good choice for general computer back in those days. And yes, OS/2 flopped for whatever reason. I know a few people who used it in the day, too. And remember, though, that Linux is, and always has been, different from any Apple, Amiga, IBM, or Windows operating systems. These all were available as upgradeable operating systems on a for profit model. Linux, being open source, has never been marketed as a for profit model, outside of some organizations offering support and some enterprise solutions. So, its presence in the "marketplace" is extremely limited, considering that you don't pay for it, the maintainers don't make money off of it and could care less if someone uses it (outside of ego considerations).

As for Apple, they should be careful. They may eventually give up the home desktop business. However, they don't have a lot of penetration in the server market, for obvious reasons.