Mattel blamed their lead paint on a supplier too. Sorry, but this is the the real world of adults ( and corporations ) that should be held accountable for their actions. "The dog ate my homework and I didn't notice it until I got to school" just doesn't cut it...
GM recalls 313,000 vehicles
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A lot of the blame needs to be re-focused back to GM and auto mfg...They tell us what we can sell them the product for if we want to keep the buisness...
Call it the 'Walmart Syndrome' everyone wants cheaper prices and will drop buying form a local vendor just to save .01 and never know what kind of quality they are getting for the savings...
Guess ' Ya get what you pay for' is never more true!
Call it the 'Walmart Syndrome' everyone wants cheaper prices and will drop buying form a local vendor just to save .01 and never know what kind of quality they are getting for the savings...
Guess ' Ya get what you pay for' is never more true!
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Originally Posted By: jsharp
Mattel blamed their lead paint on a supplier too. Sorry, but this is the the real world of adults ( and corporations ) that should be held accountable for their actions. "The dog ate my homework and I didn't notice it until I got to school" just doesn't cut it...
Read the whole thread next time. (You'll see I agree with your statement) Oh and GM is taking responsibilty for the defects.
Mattel blamed their lead paint on a supplier too. Sorry, but this is the the real world of adults ( and corporations ) that should be held accountable for their actions. "The dog ate my homework and I didn't notice it until I got to school" just doesn't cut it...
Read the whole thread next time. (You'll see I agree with your statement) Oh and GM is taking responsibilty for the defects.
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I did read the whole thread. My response wasn't pointed at anyone in particular.
We had a similar problem a few years ago with certain brands of imported power supplies. The specs on these were shall we say, somewhat inflated. In effect, our suppliers lied to us.
It took us quite a while to discover the problems. But as my boss said, we can't tell our customers it's a supplier problem even if it is because in the end, they don't care. They buy from us.
We made things right with our customers. We avoided trying deflect the problems to some mythical and unknown 3rd party in an attempt to make us somehow look better. In so doing we didn't foolishly look like the proverbial kid without his homework...
We had a similar problem a few years ago with certain brands of imported power supplies. The specs on these were shall we say, somewhat inflated. In effect, our suppliers lied to us.
It took us quite a while to discover the problems. But as my boss said, we can't tell our customers it's a supplier problem even if it is because in the end, they don't care. They buy from us.
We made things right with our customers. We avoided trying deflect the problems to some mythical and unknown 3rd party in an attempt to make us somehow look better. In so doing we didn't foolishly look like the proverbial kid without his homework...
Originally Posted By: jsharp
We had a similar problem a few years ago with certain brands of imported power supplies. The specs on these were shall we say, somewhat inflated. In effect, our suppliers lied to us.
It took us quite a while to discover the problems. But as my boss said, we can't tell our customers it's a supplier problem even if it is because in the end, they don't care. They buy from us.
We made things right with our customers. We avoided trying deflect the problems to some mythical and unknown 3rd party in an attempt to make us somehow look better. In so doing we didn't foolishly look like the proverbial kid without his homework...
You are correct - customer doesn't care about anything but the maker of the product. The manufacturer must stand behind it's goods and then go after the supplier "behind the scenes" for cost recovery, etc.
Glad your boss was of integrity.
We had a similar problem a few years ago with certain brands of imported power supplies. The specs on these were shall we say, somewhat inflated. In effect, our suppliers lied to us.
It took us quite a while to discover the problems. But as my boss said, we can't tell our customers it's a supplier problem even if it is because in the end, they don't care. They buy from us.
We made things right with our customers. We avoided trying deflect the problems to some mythical and unknown 3rd party in an attempt to make us somehow look better. In so doing we didn't foolishly look like the proverbial kid without his homework...
You are correct - customer doesn't care about anything but the maker of the product. The manufacturer must stand behind it's goods and then go after the supplier "behind the scenes" for cost recovery, etc.
Glad your boss was of integrity.
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My 86 tempo was part of a nation wide recall of tb injectors. It may not have been a nation wide recall ..but it was wide spread enough to have the injectors back ordered for months. I'm pretty sure that Ford knew about it before they ever got the fuel economy complaints ..but needed to bring the cars to market or lose a ton more $$ in the process. What were they gonna do, idle the plants for one defective part that would get them onto the carrier?
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
You are correct - customer doesn't care about anything but the maker of the product. The manufacturer must stand behind it's goods and then go after the supplier "behind the scenes" for cost recovery, etc.
Glad your boss was of integrity.
The other 1/2 of this - I'm no GM fan but I can certainly sympathize with them. As a manufacturer you buy from all sorts of suppliers. You design and test and expect that the parts that you use in production are the same parts that you selected in the first place.
Then you get parts that may last 3 years instead of the 5 or 10 years that you've come to expect. Opps. Now what. And what's worse, you might not even realize it until you've been using the bad parts for many years.
From personal experience, it's not an enjoyable situation to be in...
You are correct - customer doesn't care about anything but the maker of the product. The manufacturer must stand behind it's goods and then go after the supplier "behind the scenes" for cost recovery, etc.
Glad your boss was of integrity.
The other 1/2 of this - I'm no GM fan but I can certainly sympathize with them. As a manufacturer you buy from all sorts of suppliers. You design and test and expect that the parts that you use in production are the same parts that you selected in the first place.
Then you get parts that may last 3 years instead of the 5 or 10 years that you've come to expect. Opps. Now what. And what's worse, you might not even realize it until you've been using the bad parts for many years.
From personal experience, it's not an enjoyable situation to be in...
Funny thing is, I wouldn't be surprised if there are several other vehicles made by other companies, that are just as likely to have a pinion seal leak, but were not recalled. Now that GM has done this recall so nobody has to pay anything to fix it (which is really the bottom line, most customers think they should never have to pay for any repairs), people still point and blame GM saying they should never let anything like this happen. I bet everybody here defended Toyota when they had their engine/transmission problems that they had to recall, because the majority on here are import car lovers. Maybe I'm wrong but thats just the way it seems here.
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Originally Posted By: caprice_2nv
Funny thing is, I wouldn't be surprised if there are several other vehicles made by other companies, that are just as likely to have a pinion seal leak, but were not recalled. Now that GM has done this recall so nobody has to pay anything to fix it (which is really the bottom line, most customers think they should never have to pay for any repairs), people still point and blame GM saying they should never let anything like this happen. I bet everybody here defended Toyota when they had their engine/transmission problems that they had to recall, because the majority on here are import car lovers. Maybe I'm wrong but thats just the way it seems here.
You may be right, that folks are easier on Toyota and Honda right now. The key phrase is right now.
I think Honda and Toyota have a lot more customer goodwill in the bank than do any of the domestic car makers.
So, like it or not, there are a lot of folks who were burned by GM and fewer (but apparently growing) numbers of folks burned by Honda or Toyota.
So, if Honda or Toyota experience problems, because of this built up goodwill, customers give them some slack. But not forever.
We just purchased another Toyota this weekend. But not a new one. We got a 2002 Sienna XLE. This one, according to what I've read is not impacted by the oil gel, appears to be well maintained.
I really wasn't interested in a newer one, as it seems largely the 1MZ V6 and the 4 speed automatic is a pretty bulletproof drive train, as long as you keep the oil changed.
What was sad was we drove 2 year old Grand Caravans with about 30-50K miles that were not as solid as this 6 year old Sienna with 67K on the clock.
There was a noticeable difference.
Personally, I think the last generation of Sienna's and Camry's was the quality pinnacle for Toyota.
So for $14,300, including all taxes, tags, etc, we got a fully loaded Sienna with the leather, moonroof, heated seats, dual power sliding doors, traction control, ABS, etc.
We even liked this better than the Odyssey we drove. The Odyssey was bigger and quicker, but didn't seem to wear as well at the $15K price point. Likewise for the Dodge.
I realize much of it is perception. Of course, Oilbabe's Camry compared with my prior GM experiences has helped shape that perception.
Funny thing is, I wouldn't be surprised if there are several other vehicles made by other companies, that are just as likely to have a pinion seal leak, but were not recalled. Now that GM has done this recall so nobody has to pay anything to fix it (which is really the bottom line, most customers think they should never have to pay for any repairs), people still point and blame GM saying they should never let anything like this happen. I bet everybody here defended Toyota when they had their engine/transmission problems that they had to recall, because the majority on here are import car lovers. Maybe I'm wrong but thats just the way it seems here.
You may be right, that folks are easier on Toyota and Honda right now. The key phrase is right now.
I think Honda and Toyota have a lot more customer goodwill in the bank than do any of the domestic car makers.
So, like it or not, there are a lot of folks who were burned by GM and fewer (but apparently growing) numbers of folks burned by Honda or Toyota.
So, if Honda or Toyota experience problems, because of this built up goodwill, customers give them some slack. But not forever.
We just purchased another Toyota this weekend. But not a new one. We got a 2002 Sienna XLE. This one, according to what I've read is not impacted by the oil gel, appears to be well maintained.
I really wasn't interested in a newer one, as it seems largely the 1MZ V6 and the 4 speed automatic is a pretty bulletproof drive train, as long as you keep the oil changed.
What was sad was we drove 2 year old Grand Caravans with about 30-50K miles that were not as solid as this 6 year old Sienna with 67K on the clock.
There was a noticeable difference.
Personally, I think the last generation of Sienna's and Camry's was the quality pinnacle for Toyota.
So for $14,300, including all taxes, tags, etc, we got a fully loaded Sienna with the leather, moonroof, heated seats, dual power sliding doors, traction control, ABS, etc.
We even liked this better than the Odyssey we drove. The Odyssey was bigger and quicker, but didn't seem to wear as well at the $15K price point. Likewise for the Dodge.
I realize much of it is perception. Of course, Oilbabe's Camry compared with my prior GM experiences has helped shape that perception.
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
The parts were NOT made to GM's spec, so the supplier is at fault and will bear the warrany costs. But the car owners will only blame GM...unfortunate
I agree with you. I know some people love to ridicule ANY car maker that has a recall, but personally I admire them for stepping up to the plate.
As a member of several automotive forums, (one being a GM) I see LOTS of problems that SHOULD be a recall, but are "swept under the rug" so to speak.
I would rather GM (or Ford or Toyota, etc.) say: "Hey we have discovered a problem here, we will fix it" instead of "There is no problem"!
The parts were NOT made to GM's spec, so the supplier is at fault and will bear the warrany costs. But the car owners will only blame GM...unfortunate
I agree with you. I know some people love to ridicule ANY car maker that has a recall, but personally I admire them for stepping up to the plate.
As a member of several automotive forums, (one being a GM) I see LOTS of problems that SHOULD be a recall, but are "swept under the rug" so to speak.
I would rather GM (or Ford or Toyota, etc.) say: "Hey we have discovered a problem here, we will fix it" instead of "There is no problem"!
Originally Posted By: oldmaninsc
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
The parts were NOT made to GM's spec, so the supplier is at fault and will bear the warrany costs. But the car owners will only blame GM...unfortunate
I agree with you. I know some people love to ridicule ANY car maker that has a recall, but personally I admire them for stepping up to the plate.
As a member of several automotive forums, (one being a GM) I see LOTS of problems that SHOULD be a recall, but are "swept under the rug" so to speak.
I would rather GM (or Ford or Toyota, etc.) say: "Hey we have discovered a problem here, we will fix it" instead of "There is no problem"!
Agreed. I'd like to see all businesses do this.
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
The parts were NOT made to GM's spec, so the supplier is at fault and will bear the warrany costs. But the car owners will only blame GM...unfortunate
I agree with you. I know some people love to ridicule ANY car maker that has a recall, but personally I admire them for stepping up to the plate.
As a member of several automotive forums, (one being a GM) I see LOTS of problems that SHOULD be a recall, but are "swept under the rug" so to speak.
I would rather GM (or Ford or Toyota, etc.) say: "Hey we have discovered a problem here, we will fix it" instead of "There is no problem"!
Agreed. I'd like to see all businesses do this.
It does not matter GMboy that the supplier failed...It is ultimately the people useing the part's and building and selling the vechile that are responable... I understand that due to the contract the supplier is going to be paying through the knose for the repair's but in the end GM built the vechile not the supplier! So they are at fault! They choose to shift the quality control to their supplier's to save money and to run with just in time part's deliver!!! That is GM's doing! That is one of the down sides to just in time part's deliver and off site stageing! If you get 100,000 part's that are junk you do not find out about it untilt he customer has a problem!
To add insult to injury GM is always renegotaiting prices with their supplier's and changeing designs without proper validation etc......They do this until they have a problem then they have a second design part to fix the problem.
This happened to Toyota ontheir 5.7 V8 they had came shaft issues that were supplier related. No one tried to make excuse's for Toyota because they put those part's in those engines so they were again ultimately responcable!
To add insult to injury GM is always renegotaiting prices with their supplier's and changeing designs without proper validation etc......They do this until they have a problem then they have a second design part to fix the problem.
This happened to Toyota ontheir 5.7 V8 they had came shaft issues that were supplier related. No one tried to make excuse's for Toyota because they put those part's in those engines so they were again ultimately responcable!
Yeah, it always works that way.
Texas Instruments made Ford's cruise control switches - the fix is entirely on Ford.
Firestone made bad tires - Ford had to replace them (Ford was partially to blame for a rediculously low pressure reccommendation though).
Toyota gets camshafts with metallurgical problems...they foot the bill for new engines.
I guess it comes down to who sold the item to the end consumer. Whoever sells to the end consumer is ultimately responsible for any repairs, regardless of if they had anything to do with the making of the part or not.
Texas Instruments made Ford's cruise control switches - the fix is entirely on Ford.
Firestone made bad tires - Ford had to replace them (Ford was partially to blame for a rediculously low pressure reccommendation though).
Toyota gets camshafts with metallurgical problems...they foot the bill for new engines.
I guess it comes down to who sold the item to the end consumer. Whoever sells to the end consumer is ultimately responsible for any repairs, regardless of if they had anything to do with the making of the part or not.
Originally Posted By: JohnBrowning
It does not matter GMboy that the supplier failed...It is ultimately the people useing the part's and building and selling the vechile that are responable... I understand that due to the contract the supplier is going to be paying through the knose for the repair's but in the end GM built the vechile not the supplier! So they are at fault! They choose to shift the quality control to their supplier's to save money and to run with just in time part's deliver!!! That is GM's doing! That is one of the down sides to just in time part's deliver and off site stageing! If you get 100,000 part's that are junk you do not find out about it untilt he customer has a problem!
To add insult to injury GM is always renegotaiting prices with their supplier's and changeing designs without proper validation etc......They do this until they have a problem then they have a second design part to fix the problem.
This happened to Toyota ontheir 5.7 V8 they had came shaft issues that were supplier related. No one tried to make excuse's for Toyota because they put those part's in those engines so they were again ultimately responcable!
All these points I made or agreed with earlier in the post, John.
It does not matter GMboy that the supplier failed...It is ultimately the people useing the part's and building and selling the vechile that are responable... I understand that due to the contract the supplier is going to be paying through the knose for the repair's but in the end GM built the vechile not the supplier! So they are at fault! They choose to shift the quality control to their supplier's to save money and to run with just in time part's deliver!!! That is GM's doing! That is one of the down sides to just in time part's deliver and off site stageing! If you get 100,000 part's that are junk you do not find out about it untilt he customer has a problem!
To add insult to injury GM is always renegotaiting prices with their supplier's and changeing designs without proper validation etc......They do this until they have a problem then they have a second design part to fix the problem.
This happened to Toyota ontheir 5.7 V8 they had came shaft issues that were supplier related. No one tried to make excuse's for Toyota because they put those part's in those engines so they were again ultimately responcable!
All these points I made or agreed with earlier in the post, John.
Vehicles are complicated and stuff happens. The news is aways about the recall and I don't see follow up stores on how the recall was handled. I think the Tundra cam deal was just over 20 failures that stopped a vehicle on the road or set off an engine warning light and the batch included 1,000 engines at a time when 30,020 engines had been completed. Although Toyota blamed a vendor it never named the vendor and Toyota footed the bills for repairs not the vendor or the dealer. The problem with recalls becomes a bigger problem for the owner if the dealer does not do a stand up job on his end which often happens, handling things in a way that the manufacturer would not like. Many dealers do not have great expertise in their own vehicles. They know how to change the parts and read the computer screen but lack fundamental knowledge about their product and their trade beyond what's obvious.
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