GM pensions major part of collapse

[Shannow]

But with a preferred level of unemployment at 5%, proposed and agreed as being the "optimum" level of unemployment to prevent inflation, while maximising productivity, what do you do with the 5% of losers ?

We all decided that they are losers, by deciding that 5% HAD to be losers to keep the system productive.

No Income, no savings, no retirement.

 

[AdRock]

I think the main problem with all of it is that most people are too stupid with money and live in the "I need that now, I'll put it on credit" world. Why should I have to pay more taxes to support the idiots of the country that are too [censored] lazy and dumb to learn to control their finances themselves. I invest and control my own money and am making sure that I won't have to depend on the SS that won't even be there by the time I'm that age.

But no, why do that when you can get a welfare check and food stamps. Then get deals on all kinds of stuff.

If someone that is more than capable of working doesn't and just wants to mooch off of the rest of us that do... well, let them be homeless. I get real tired of being at the grocery store and seeing the lady with umpteen kids buying 3 baskets of food on food stamps. Then pulling out the $50 to pay for all the beer. Then getting into the Escalade sitting on 24's and driving off.

Thw welfare state needs to be irradicated with the quickness. Fend for yourself or suffer the consequences.

RANT OFF.

 

[VW_TDI_PD]

lol adrock, you can drive through certain parts of chicago at any time during 9-5 and see thousands upon thousands of able bodied 18-65 year old males walking around, hanging out on front decks, standing in front of liquor stores, etc. Really a site to see! Esp since they are NOT homeless.

 

[Steve S]

Originally Posted By: AdRock
I think the main problem with all of it is that most people are too stupid with money and live in the "I need that now, I'll put it on credit" world. Why should I have to pay more taxes to support the idiots of the country that are too [censored] lazy and dumb to learn to control their finances themselves. I invest and control my own money and am making sure that I won't have to depend on the SS that won't even be there by the time I'm that age.

But no, why do that when you can get a welfare check and food stamps. Then get deals on all kinds of stuff.

If someone that is more than capable of working doesn't and just wants to mooch off of the rest of us that do... well, let them be homeless. I get real tired of being at the grocery store and seeing the lady with umpteen kids buying 3 baskets of food on food stamps. Then pulling out the $50 to pay for all the beer. Then getting into the Escalade sitting on 24's and driving off.

Thw welfare state needs to be irradicated with the quickness. Fend for yourself or suffer the consequences.

RANT OFF.
Certainly a good rant.

 

[Steve S]

No complaints about the overpaid engineers? Indian engineers do the job for less how bout the CEOs saleries and benefits ? Many better performing corps who are not going bankrupt pay way less for their management.

 

[keith]

Originally Posted By: Mustang2008Z
... and MANAGEMENT COULD CARE LESS ABOUT THE COMPANIES.....



I didn't work for GM, but if I did, and continually bargained for wage and benefits that were driving the company towards bankruptcy, it's entirely unreasonable to accept no blame when they do go bankrupt. If management had taken a harder line to control costs, they'd get rewarded with strikes and lousy build quality. Management is responsible for design quality, which has been spotty with some good new product (Malibu) but who can forget the Aztec?

With the Obama bailout plan that puts the unions ahead of supposedly "secured creditors", the unionized workers could have done much worse. They ate their cake and still have a cake. Their employment numbers will of course shrink to somewhat match the GM shrinking market share of news cars, something that should have been happening for decades but for inflexible work rules and asinine job banks "money for nothing".

I doubt this new GM can survive (read up on the death of Austin/BLMC/British Leyland), but it will continue to suck the lifeblood out of taxpayers. With Obama now responsible for it's success or failure, I can't see him let it fail, whatever the cost.

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
But with a preferred level of unemployment at 5%, proposed and agreed as being the "optimum" level of unemployment to prevent inflation, while maximising productivity, what do you do with the 5% of losers ?

We all decided that they are losers, by deciding that 5% HAD to be losers to keep the system productive.

No Income, no savings, no retirement.

That 5% indicates people that are actually looking for work. That is the way our statistics work. It is NOT the same 5% perpetually out of work. It cycles.

People that are perfectly happy to sit at home on government crack are not included in the "normal" unemployment figures.

 

[benjamming]

or those that are unemployed longer than x months

 

[PT1]

Originally Posted By: H2GURU
For the union bashers here I hope you have really really "good" jobs... and have done your homework. The proven successful draw down rate of your pension-retirement fund is right at 4.5%. So, if you want to maintain an average lifestyle you better start saving. If you could save at least $1,000,000 ( after everything else is PAID for) that would be a good start as this will only get you $45,000/yr. in today's dollars. I doubt most can get even 1/2 of that after raising children, and housing costs, etc. GOOD LUCK... you're goona' need it!



We will be robbed by the union pigs anyway so your numbers are meaningless. The union pigs will steal everything they can get their hands on while their corrupt cronies control the government...but in the end they wil be tossed over the cliff by the Chinese when they control the corporations the union pigs have ruined. So goes the middle class...destroyed by the unions.

 

[PT1]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
Many upper income people in Canada aren't thrilled that their care is comparable to the walmart greeter next to them but that doesn't bother me at all.

Should their house, car, cloths... be forced to be the same as the greeter's as well?

No, but treating people like people is something worth paying taxes for IMHO.


Great...be sure to stay in Canada.

 

[PT1]

Originally Posted By: Steve S
No complaints about the overpaid engineers? Indian engineers do the job for less


Out sourcing to India doesn't work....already tried many times already failed many times. Indian engineers don't understand cars because they don't own one. Major design flaws done by simple misunderstanding of the most basic concepts of design done on complex electrical systems. Many times when you see a software recall it was done by an outsourced software engineering team. Sooner or later management realizes that the home grown engineers do it better.

 

[Tempest]

Quote:
Section 3. The salaries of the International President, International Secretary-Treasurer, International Vice Presidents and International Executive Board Members in full for services rendered by each of said officers shall be the following sums:

International President, one hundred and forty four thousand, seven hundred and thirty-three dollars and forty-seven cents ($144,733.47) per annum. International Secretary-Treasurer, one hundred and thirty-three thousand, eight hundred and ninety-one dollars and thirty-two cents ($133,891.32) per annum.

International Vice Presidents, one hundred and twenty-nine thousand, six hundred and fifty-six dollars and nine cents ($129,656.09) per annum.

International Executive Board Members, one hundred and eighteen thousand, eight hundred and thirteen dollars and ninety cents ($118,813.90) per annum.

Salaries shall be payable in biweekly installments.

http://www.uaw.org/constitution/article11.cfm
UAW suits seem to be doing pretty well. Much better than the people that pay them.

 

[Gary Allan]

Do you have a like break down of GM from the top? I didn't think so.

 

[hone eagle]

So top UAW guy gets like .01 % of what Friz gets?

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: hone eagle
So top UAW guy gets like .01 % of what Friz gets?

How many cars and jobs does the UAW provide?

 

[Gary Allan]

None. Your point? I guess they could administer to 10's of thousands of members out of a shoe box in their spare time.

 

[cousincletus]

Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: H2GURU
For the union bashers here I hope you have really really "good" jobs... and have done your homework. The proven successful draw down rate of your pension-retirement fund is right at 4.5%. So, if you want to maintain an average lifestyle you better start saving. If you could save at least $1,000,000 ( after everything else is PAID for) that would be a good start as this will only get you $45,000/yr. in today's dollars. I doubt most can get even 1/2 of that after raising children, and housing costs, etc. GOOD LUCK... you're goona' need it!



We will be robbed by the union pigs anyway so your numbers are meaningless. The union pigs will steal everything they can get their hands on while their corrupt cronies control the government...but in the end they wil be tossed over the cliff by the Chinese when they control the corporations the union pigs have ruined. So goes the middle class...destroyed by the unions.

Pretty harsh, PT1. You have your "facts" a little backwards. The unions created the middle class, but it's no point to argue.
I can give you a recent example of where the union (Teamsters) and OOIDA (truck drivers organization) fought to keep jobs in the USA by fighting the Mexican truck program to the end. Their "cronies" in Wash. DC put and end to the Mexican truck program Bush fought so hard to shove down our throats. Unions keep jobs in the USA, not what you say. You're misinformed, bro.

 

[Tempest]

Quote:
Unions keep jobs in the USA

They've done a bang up job with GM, Chrysler, California...

Quote:
The unions created the middle class, but it's no point to argue.


Sure it is. What do you base your statement on?

 

[cousincletus]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
Unions keep jobs in the USA

They've done a bang up job with GM, Chrysler, California...

Quote:
The unions created the middle class, but it's no point to argue.


Sure it is. What do you base your statement on?


No one is selling cars now. It's not just GM.
40 hour work weeks, child labor laws, workplace rights and safety were all heavily influenced by unions.

 

[firemachine69]

I'll just throw in my two cents here - although my union is Canadian, the company that owns us is based out of the UK.