GM pensions major part of collapse

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The unions created the middle class, but it's no point to argue.


Sure it is. What do you base your statement on?



Well, let's turn that around, my good Tempest. Where do you think the middle class came from?
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
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The unions created the middle class, but it's no point to argue.


Sure it is. What do you base your statement on?



Well, let's turn that around, my good Tempest. Where do you think the middle class came from?


He thinks it came from rich people who, out of the kindness of their hearts, decided to pay workers a decent wage (although that is what Henry Ford actually did). I was wondering if the actual damage to our country is repairable. So much of the middle class has been destroyed, no one is buying stuff that the middle class buys, (cars). All the stimulus money in the world won't do anything long term unless we get our manufacturing back, and China isn't going to let that go easily. Lets not forget that tax breaks to the rich do not create jobs, it's a demand for products and services (middle class buys stuff). In fact, more taxes to rich folks would be a good thing. An example would be to tax these multi-million dollar incomes at the 90% level. That way, the money would be left in the business to reinvest rather than being looted by the guys at the top.
 
so punish those who succeed in making good money? Less tax period, not class warfare is a much better solution. The higher tax rate never stays at the top.
 
People always default on the "punishment" garbage. It's not punishment. You still gain more the more you earn. It does limit the ceiling ..but also limits the floor from dropping too far.

You are promoting the brokering off if your fellow countrymen's jobs for the sake of what you call "success". I'll destroy your idea of success with every fiber of my body if it hurts this nation.

Most of your falsely assumed sweat and toil earners of merit are paled compared to the brokers and financiers that have sold everything that made us the envy of the world to other interests for a cut.

I'd rather see them extinct not fostered and coddles with tax breaks.
 
Gary,

I don't equate making money to success. I was merely trying to point out the problem of engaging in class warfare. What determines "richness"? Both sides employ this tactic while the real show is in the back.

I also have no pity on the financial "wizards" of our day. Nothing changes except the name to sound better.
 
The act that allowed modern unions to form was signed into law in 1933. The Great Depression continued until ~1942...when we were gearing up for WWII. So the unions did jack squat for the economy during the time. In fact, THIS UCLA study shows high wages and high prices extended the Great Depression.
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Lets not forget that tax breaks to the rich do not create jobs, it's a demand for products and services (middle class buys stuff)

Sorry, that is not correct. If there is nothing to buy, you can't have demand for it. Demand side economics stunts economic growth due to the retarding of investment capital and profit. Supply side generates growth, new technologies and jobs.
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An example would be to tax these multi-million dollar incomes at the 90% level. That way, the money would be left in the business to reinvest rather than being looted by the guys at the top.

How does money that goes to the IRS get reinvested into businesses?
 
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People always default on the "punishment" garbage. It's not punishment.

Sure it is. They sin tax tobacco, sugar, gas, fast food, etc. in order to get people to use them less. So when they increase taxes the more you make, what are they telling you?
 
Originally Posted By: Tempest

How does money that goes to the IRS get reinvested into businesses?


My biggest peeve is when a large corporation gets fined for some bad deed that they have done in the past. Does the fine come out of an executive's salary? No. So what does the company do to recover the money lost due to the fine? They raise prices. In the end, it's the consumer who get socked (of course) for the actions of a corporation. The executives lose nothing.
It sure sounds good when it hits the news though.
 
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