GM employee warned of ignition issue in 2005

[THE_TROTS]

Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: GreenFocus
I'm just glad GM's computer did not "crash".
Back to the op, does anyone think this is hurting GM?
Sales numbers tell a different story, why aren't people concerned with the safety on new GM cars? Or are they somehow different?


Up here in the GWN, the GM dealers in the GTA have filed a class action lawsuit against GM over lost sales and revenue due to not only this, but the elimination of Pontiac, which was a successful brand in Canada, and the fact that the US dealer network got financial support to deal with these things whilst the Canadian one didn't.


The Canadian Dealers got a raw deal from GM. I would have expected more given the Canadian government gave GM cash


Don't underestimate the power of large corporations. GM surely threatened to close their Canadian plants if they were not given a handout.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: Rhymingmechanic
From the article: "GM is recalling the cars to put an insert into the key ring slots that converts it to a small hole. That cuts the force generated by swinging key rings and stops the cars from stalling, GM said.
The recall affects Impalas, Cadillac Devilles and five other models. GM says owners should remove everything from their key rings until repairs are made."

Am I reading this correctly? Is the "fix" to make the hole in the key smaller, not to replace the switch that can turn off by itself?

I imagine people who drive other makes also load their keyrings with junk. Is this a problem with other manufacturers?


YES! Many ignition switches have been replaced due to drivers hanging four pounds of junk from their keys! (The guys at the livery company I worked for could do one on a Vic in an hour.)

 

[RF Overlord]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Many ignition switches have been replaced due to drivers hanging four pounds of junk from their keys!
I've never understood why people do this...my ex always had so many keys and what-not it would make a janitor jealous. I have ONE key on my little ring.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
No question that as the bean counters have gained more and more influence over the past few decades the quality and safety has been falling as far as I am concerned at ALL the major auto makers.
Just pure, unadulterated, greed.


To a point. Any good systems engineering process will point out a TON of possible risks, which have the possibility of occurrence incredibly low, and are not practical for making major modifications. Such potentials may well be documented, and discussed. Perhaps they are squelched by bean counters, but they may well also be squelched just by practical realities of possibility and outcome.

I'm not justifying it as right per se, but it sure seems like most of the folks who talk about things have never designed and implemented major complex systems of systems in their life, let alone a subcomponent.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
No question that as the bean counters have gained more and more influence over the past few decades the quality and safety has been falling as far as I am concerned at ALL the major auto makers.
Just pure, unadulterated, greed.


To a point. Any good systems engineering process will point out a TON of possible risks, which have the possibility of occurrence incredibly low, and are not practical for making major modifications. Such potentials may well be documented, and discussed. Perhaps they are squelched by bean counters, but they may well also be squelched just by practical realities of possibility and outcome.

I'm not justifying it as right per se, but it sure seems like most of the folks who talk about things have never designed and implemented major complex systems of systems in their life, let alone a subcomponent.


So true. Now make MILLIONS of them! Sounds a bit tricky? It is.

Bean counters have indeed increased the pressure on suppliers to furnish ever cheaper parts. And mfgrs are always beating up on them for more concessions.

My favorite example is Brembo. In order to move more product they now assemble complete front corner 'modules' for Chevrolet. It saves Chevy money, not Brembo...

 

[gregoron]

I've driven older cars where the engine still runs even when the ignition keys slide out from the On position. I don't understand why the engine would shut off in GM's case.

Also, this recall is not limited to just one line of cars like the Ford Pinto or Toyota Camry. It goes through various models and years because of a component issue, not particular model design. Then, there are more GM recalls that are completely unrelated like Cruze airbag issues. It just keeps piling on for GM.

BTW, my dad's 1980 Impala never had an issue and it was built like a tank when I remember driving it decades ago.

 

[LazyPrizm]

I still say my Prizm is the finest compact car to ever wear the Chevy bowtie... 0 recalls!

 

[gregoron]

Originally Posted By: LazyPrizm
I still say my Prizm is the finest compact car to ever wear the Chevy bowtie... 0 recalls!


You're kidding right? That Prizm was a rebadged Toyota Corolla.

 

[Kestas]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

Up here in the GWN, the GM dealers in the GTA have filed a class action lawsuit against GM over lost sales and revenue due to not only this, but the elimination of Pontiac, which was a successful brand in Canada, and the fact that the US dealer network got financial support to deal with these things whilst the Canadian one didn't.

I would hope in this free market that a manufacturer can build whatever they want, and not be TOLD what to build or not to build.

 

[Garak]

Automakers do very strange things in Canada at times, and it ends up being the customer who gets punished. Some nimrod in Quebec years ago plugged his VW's block heater while inside his garage, had a short, and everything burned down. He sued VW. For the longest time (and likely to this day), VW and Audi stopped offering block heaters for Canadian vehicles, with oil pan heaters replacing them. After all, the design principle is so much different.

 

[rat]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Originally Posted By: GreenFocus
This sounds like company line.
So in previous decade, when (insert major car maker name here) was building these now faulty cars they were not committed to making the best and safest product possible? This answer will always be given no matter the calendar date. My concern is decade from today what excuses will be given for recalls on currently new cars?


You can insert Ford instead of GM, or even Toyota as well.

You haven't forgotten the Ford Pinto, or Explorer issues have you?




What Explorer issues?

 

[dparm]

Originally Posted By: rat
What Explorer issues?



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firestone_vs_Ford_Motor_Company_controversy

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: gregoron
Originally Posted By: LazyPrizm
I still say my Prizm is the finest compact car to ever wear the Chevy bowtie... 0 recalls!


You're kidding right? That Prizm was a rebadged Toyota Corolla.


That was probably the point. The best small car Chevy ever sold wasn't really a Chevy.

 

[ls1mike]

Originally Posted By: LazyPrizm
I still say my Prizm is the finest compact car to ever wear the Chevy bowtie... 0 recalls!

You may want to fact check that one..

Prizm recalls

2002...May want to have your car checked...

None for my 2000 Trans Am though.

Trans Am recalls.

 

[SteveSRT8]

I can't find the link, but Car and Driver dissected this whole ignition key thing quite thoroughly in their July issue.

Four of the drivers involved in the eleven fatal accidents were impaired either by drugs or alcohol. One was apparently (per witness) experiencing an epileptic seizure. Seven of the thirteen victims were not even belted in!

The dominant narrative simply doesn't hold up at all...

 

[jeepman3071]

I agree with Steve. It is sad when people lose their lives because of an auto accident, but from the stories I've read it doesn't sound like all the deaths were caused by GM switch failures. I saw this one interview of a mom crying and talking about how if the airbag went off her daughter might still be here. Then they tell the story and it turns out she was drunk driving home from a party, speeding, and not wearing a seat belt. I doubt the air bag would have done anything in that situation. It sounds more like the mother is trying to get some money out of the deal in that story.

I'm not a GM fan, but I think the whole ignition switch deal is blown up way too much. Are they going to try and find the people who made the switches next and send them to jail?

 

[SteveSRT8]

Many people are not aware of the incredibly complex programming used in airbag actuation. There are many circumstances where the airbag may not deploy at all if the occupant is unbelted!

Like i said, it just doesn't hold water for me...

 

[xxch4osxx]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: GreenFocus
I'm just glad GM's computer did not "crash".
Back to the op, does anyone think this is hurting GM?
Sales numbers tell a different story, why aren't people concerned with the safety on new GM cars? Or are they somehow different?


Up here in the GWN, the GM dealers in the GTA have filed a class action lawsuit against GM over lost sales and revenue due to not only this, but the elimination of Pontiac, which was a successful brand in Canada, and the fact that the US dealer network got financial support to deal with these things whilst the Canadian one didn't.
I never knew about the class action lawsuit. It will be interesting to see the outcome of it. I have always disagreed about them axing the Pontiac line, it certainly was a sucessful brand up here.

 

[LazyPrizm]

Originally Posted By: ls1mike
Originally Posted By: LazyPrizm
I still say my Prizm is the finest compact car to ever wear the Chevy bowtie... 0 recalls!

You may want to fact check that one..

Prizm recalls

2002...May want to have your car checked...

None for my 2000 Trans Am though.

Trans Am recalls.

Allow me to fact check your fact checking:

Originally Posted By: NHTSA.dot.gov
THIS RECALL ONLY PERTAINS TO AFTERMARKET GABRIEL RIDE CONTROL OR ARVINMERITOR FRONT STRUT MOUNTS AND HAS NO RELATION TO ANY ORIGINAL EQUIPMENT INSTALLED ON VEHICLES MANUFACTURED BY GENERAL MOTORS, NISSAN, OR TOYOTA.


The Trans Am does have a pretty LOLzy Service Bulletin, which I think gets at what other posters are saying about the latest recalls:

Originally Posted By: NHTSA.dot.gov
THERE ARE SEAT BELT PROBLEMS: DIFFICULTY LATCHING AND UNLATCHING BUCKLE. BUCKLE RELEASE BUTTON IS STICKING. SEAT BELT WARNING LIGHT ILLUMINATED. LIKELY CAUSED BY STICKY BEVERAGES THAT ARE SPILLED INTO THE BUCKLE ASSEMBLY.

 

[ls1mike]

I have stayed petty silent on this issue as I am a GM guy, won't drive anything else. My Fords, Honda, VW and Mopars were not great. Love my GM stuff.

I will say when I fix anyone's cars, I fix it as if my mom were going to drive it. My mom is a worry wart and anything askew is bad. So when the engineers experienced this they should have fixed it like their mom was going to be driving the car. Having said that the issue is not a big as they are making it, but they should have thought about the outcome at that time. Will it stop me from driving a GM product or putting my family in it? Nope, it appears a portion of the country feels the same as sales are still good. Some people, those who don't post here, can see the issue for what it is and move on. Just like my uncle after he lost his Ford and garage to a faulty cruise control switch. It happens. He likes Ford so he continues to buy them. It is what interest him and what he knows, just like GM stuff for me. I like cars with big V8's and Superchargers. I need a 3/4 ton truck for my trailer. I don't need a Civic or Camry and I don't want one.

If you think anyone on this site will change my mind based off the bad experience they had with an X car (Citation) 30 years ago or a bad intake gasket that you fix once and move on and you are still adjusting valves on your Honda, I have some property on the Moon I will sell you.

Engineers cannot account for everything. It is why we have plane crashes, why we have lost submarines and why we have lost spacecraft. Humans, as much we like to think we don't f up, we do...all the time. It is how we get better!

Class action law suit? I am sure they will get their money as GM has set up a pretty hefty trust to compensate the victims families. Does it bring them back? Does it help heal? Nope. Nothing can do that.