Do the German prices also include VAT? If so, you would need to subtract that to compare with US prices.
GM Chapter 7 ??
- Thread starter W.T.McGlynn
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brianl703, Well seeing how GM and Ford are not reinvesting in America I would say it is surely their fault! No one is makeing them outsource all their jobs to Canada,Pakistan,India,Mexico,Brasil,China etc......
GM and Ford have both gotten themself in trouble by hireing morons to run their companys into the ground! GM is especialy mismanaged from close to the top down!!! IT does not take a rocket scientist wich we actualy have on hand at BITOG to see where they went wrong!!! You have massive early retirment packages, huge wages, ageing work force with large family ( often divorced and remaried 2-3 time with kids in each marriage), large perks like job bank with full pay, sub pay for layed off workers, zero deductable medical benifits and almost 100% prescription coverage, two-three times the number of worker doing a job then it requires, masive drugs and alchol issues on the work site and in the company culture, too much money on marketing, two many white colors doing very little work and makeing top dollar etc........Too much division of labor and buracrcy......
I was a contract worker within GM and I often got more work done by noon then my GM counter parts got done by the end of the week!! I am not talking about the hourly guys either.
We used to joke around about how many GM workers does it take to change a light bulb? It takes a two mill right's to carry the ladder and bulb to the site. Plus they need a Fork driver to carry their chairs to the site to waite for the electrician. Once the electrician gets their the mill right's can set up the ladder andunbox the bulb. The electrician then has to waite for the workorder to come through to him from the onsite foreman in charge of maintence. Once the work order is in hand then the electrcian can cut the power to the light socket. Then the electrician can remove and replace the bulb.Then he can turn the power to the bulb back on. THen the mill right's and electrican have to sit down and smoke two or three cigeetes. Then they have to weight for the fork driver to come around and pick up their chairs so they just sit their and smoke some more. The electrician heads back to what ever he was doing before. Then the fork drivers shows up about 15-25 minutes after they call him. They load up the fork and go back inside. By the time everything is sade an down 5 guys showed up to change one bulb and they killed 45 minutes to an hour. They were each makeing an average of $24 an hour plus benifits. I saw it happen every day for about 4 years.
It took 4 guys to install a moveable keyboard rest. Only one guy did anything the rest were just along for emotional support! I had to help the one guy that actualy did the install as he could not make heads or talls of the instruction that came with it! Then they took off with their tools all over my desk and a boat load of spare hardware all over the place.
Another contract worker got fired for moveing his computer and monitor from one end of his desk to the other. A mill right filed a grivence. All the guy did was move the computer and monitor about 2-3 foot from end of his desk to the other. The grivence was because a contract worker was basicly stealing his work from him. Never mind that it would take at least two mill rights and a week to get that 2 minute job done. That is not counting the time it takes for you to call the help desk and put in a workorder to get it done. Then all the lost productivity from them yanking all of the wires out of the computer and banging the computer around!
So in case you have not guessed I have no sympathy for a company that is this poorly run!They simply can not get anything done quickly,cheaply and correctly in a timely manner. They waste resources! They make very poor business choices. They are not students of automotive history! THey fail to look 10,20,30,40 years down the road!!!
GM and Ford have both gotten themself in trouble by hireing morons to run their companys into the ground! GM is especialy mismanaged from close to the top down!!! IT does not take a rocket scientist wich we actualy have on hand at BITOG to see where they went wrong!!! You have massive early retirment packages, huge wages, ageing work force with large family ( often divorced and remaried 2-3 time with kids in each marriage), large perks like job bank with full pay, sub pay for layed off workers, zero deductable medical benifits and almost 100% prescription coverage, two-three times the number of worker doing a job then it requires, masive drugs and alchol issues on the work site and in the company culture, too much money on marketing, two many white colors doing very little work and makeing top dollar etc........Too much division of labor and buracrcy......
I was a contract worker within GM and I often got more work done by noon then my GM counter parts got done by the end of the week!! I am not talking about the hourly guys either.
We used to joke around about how many GM workers does it take to change a light bulb? It takes a two mill right's to carry the ladder and bulb to the site. Plus they need a Fork driver to carry their chairs to the site to waite for the electrician. Once the electrician gets their the mill right's can set up the ladder andunbox the bulb. The electrician then has to waite for the workorder to come through to him from the onsite foreman in charge of maintence. Once the work order is in hand then the electrcian can cut the power to the light socket. Then the electrician can remove and replace the bulb.Then he can turn the power to the bulb back on. THen the mill right's and electrican have to sit down and smoke two or three cigeetes. Then they have to weight for the fork driver to come around and pick up their chairs so they just sit their and smoke some more. The electrician heads back to what ever he was doing before. Then the fork drivers shows up about 15-25 minutes after they call him. They load up the fork and go back inside. By the time everything is sade an down 5 guys showed up to change one bulb and they killed 45 minutes to an hour. They were each makeing an average of $24 an hour plus benifits. I saw it happen every day for about 4 years.
It took 4 guys to install a moveable keyboard rest. Only one guy did anything the rest were just along for emotional support! I had to help the one guy that actualy did the install as he could not make heads or talls of the instruction that came with it! Then they took off with their tools all over my desk and a boat load of spare hardware all over the place.
Another contract worker got fired for moveing his computer and monitor from one end of his desk to the other. A mill right filed a grivence. All the guy did was move the computer and monitor about 2-3 foot from end of his desk to the other. The grivence was because a contract worker was basicly stealing his work from him. Never mind that it would take at least two mill rights and a week to get that 2 minute job done. That is not counting the time it takes for you to call the help desk and put in a workorder to get it done. Then all the lost productivity from them yanking all of the wires out of the computer and banging the computer around!
So in case you have not guessed I have no sympathy for a company that is this poorly run!They simply can not get anything done quickly,cheaply and correctly in a timely manner. They waste resources! They make very poor business choices. They are not students of automotive history! THey fail to look 10,20,30,40 years down the road!!!
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Yep, that includes the incredible 16% MWST. By reducing the price this amount it makes it a even more attractive price.. although in order to buy one you still have to pay the taxes.. just as you do in the USA.
edit: I didn't scroll down far enough on their web page to catch the other two models. They also have the Ghia which lists for euro 19,575 and the Titanium model which lists for euro 18,925. However, you can get a fully optioned Titanium model for a whopping 25,000 Euro. That is $31,250
.. I spoke way tooooo soon.
[ June 16, 2005, 12:15 PM: Message edited by: FowVay ]
edit: I didn't scroll down far enough on their web page to catch the other two models. They also have the Ghia which lists for euro 19,575 and the Titanium model which lists for euro 18,925. However, you can get a fully optioned Titanium model for a whopping 25,000 Euro. That is $31,250
[ June 16, 2005, 12:15 PM: Message edited by: FowVay ]
Right, but most people comparing prices in the US don't consider taxes in the comparison so they get a distored view of European prices. Makes them feel good though.
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And you don't see this as a privately administered, consumer funded, jobs program?
No, this isn't rocket science.
It's one for those countries, as well. Any offshore outsourcing is surely brokered with some government approval. I would venture to say that it's used as a foreign policy "aid" package. Do you think widgits manufactured in India really cost that much less to make after you filter the actual $$$ leaving the USA? Why would this be allowed? They (whomever they are) ..want it that way ..reluctantly or otherwise. Do you think that anyone needed the Aussies to assemble some Mitsubishis from Japan on their way to the west coast (at one time - maybe still)?
No, this isn't rocket science.
All of those countries, except for Canada (which by the way is part of "America", along with Mexico...look up FTAA if you want to read something interesting), do not have the strict regulatory requirements for running a factory that the US does. Not to mention that wages are lower--in China the average wage for a factory worker is $100 a month.
You cannot blame the company for outsourcing without looking at the reasons WHY they do it. And it's not just Ford and GM, if you've ever bothered to stroll through your local Wal-Mart and take a look at where 80% of the goods in the store are made.
Not to mention that the average person just doesn't care about outsourcing.
Quoted by TomH
in England after coverting to American dollars:
A 2.0T VW GTI sells for about $38,0000
A Mitsubishi EVO sells for about $41,000
A near top of the line Ford Focus Titanium sells for about $27,000
So TomH, do you still think a non-RS Euro Ford Focus
would sell for about $30,000 if sold in the USA?
and
From looking around to find an additional example;
in England after coverting to American dollars:
A 2.0T VW GTI sells for about $38,0000
A Mitsubishi EVO sells for about $41,000
A near top of the line Ford Focus Titanium sells for about $27,000
So TomH, do you still think a non-RS Euro Ford Focus
would sell for about $30,000 if sold in the USA?
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