GM 2009 5.3 cold start up lifter rattle

[FADEC]

Got a 2009 Chevy Avalanche 5.3 50k miles that I bought used this last summer. It has the occasional cold start(first start of the morning),rattle that I'm assuming is the lifters. Goes away after usually in 3-8 seconds. It is the AFM engine. Doesn't seem to be affected by outside temps as it was 20f today and no rattle. BTW it's not piston slap as I had that on a 2002 silverado and know that noise well.

It's on GM dealer serviced bulk dino and filters, as I have two years of free oil changes.
Dealer says they all do it to some degree some more than others.


My question is. Would any combination of different oil, or filters, or perhaps some type of oil treatment/cleaner, minimize or eliminate this?

I usually do all of my own maintenance but let the dealer work on this one since it's free. Tom

 

[DrDusty86]

In my experience no. Some say a thinner oil 0w20 or Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w30 COULD help.
I have a car that does have a lifter tick noise and I tried various filters including the OE filter and it is still there.

 

[mechtech2]

If they are giving you a 10-30, a 5-30 would help. Neither of us know - dealers lie.
So may an oil filter with a good anti drainback system.

 

[skyship]

It's very difficult to figure out what is causing a noise just from a description, as it might be from the main block, exhaust system (Loose manifold in particular) or a something on the aux belt.
Stick to using the GM oil filter, but you might want to ask your dealer if you can use a 0/30 full synthetic to see if that helps.

 

[LeakySeals]

Yep, agree with dealer. Every GM I've owned over the years has done it, including the new (to me) 08 GP 3800 series III. I think its the way they start. No 1-2 second starter cranking like a Toyota. Turn the key and BOOM! its running, no time for the oil to flow before the engine starts. No elevated idle to pump oil.

What I always did years ago to lessen, even make it go away was a pint of MMO 1k before the end of every oil change.

Moving to recent history with the 08 3800 series III - The PO was running OLM OCI's on dino so it was pretty dirty at purchase. Ticked as you described on startup. Found the right oil. PP according to the BITOG used oil analysis. Much quieter at startup but not completely. I just put a cleanup dose (16oz) of MMO in like I always did years ago. It still works! Why GM's like MMO beats me, but its almost entirely cured. Will it remain? Don't know yet. Hopefully it will help clean things up.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Yep, agree with dealer. Every GM I've owned over the years has done it, including the new (to me) 08 GP 3800 series III. I think its the way they start. No 1-2 second starter cranking like a Toyota. Turn the key and BOOM! its running, no time for the oil to flow before the engine starts. No elevated idle to pump oil.

What I always did years ago to lessen, even make it go away was a pint of MMO 1k before the end of every oil change.

Moving to recent history with the 08 3800 series III - The PO was running OLM OCI's on dino so it was pretty dirty at purchase. Ticked as you described on startup. Found the right oil. PP according to the BITOG used oil analysis. Much quieter at startup but not completely. I just put a cleanup dose (16oz) of MMO in like I always did years ago. It still works! Why GM's like MMO beats me, but its almost entirely cured. Will it remain? Don't know yet. Hopefully it will help clean things up.


You ever try running 0w20 in one to see if it was perhaps just the reduction in the viscosity doing it?

 

[LeakySeals]

No, there was no such thing. This is my first GM in well over a decade. PP is reasonably close, maybe the thinnest 5w30. With the pint of MMO in there I bet its close. The first drain coming up in 2 weeks. Expecting a boatload of nastiness. Have some PU going in next to continue cleanup. Think I'll let somebody else try 0w20 first.

 

[FADEC]

Since it doesn't happen consistently with my truck, I think it may have other sources. Such as the position of the lifters/valve train from when it was shut off. Or possibly a poorly working anti drain back valve on the filter (AC Delco).

BTW love PP and PU as its usually my go to oil for my other vehicles.

 

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Yep, agree with dealer. Every GM I've owned over the years has done it, including the new (to me) 08 GP 3800 series III. I think its the way they start. No 1-2 second starter cranking like a Toyota. Turn the key and BOOM! its running, no time for the oil to flow before the engine starts. No elevated idle to pump oil.

What I always did years ago to lessen, even make it go away was a pint of MMO 1k before the end of every oil change.

Moving to recent history with the 08 3800 series III - The PO was running OLM OCI's on dino so it was pretty dirty at purchase. Ticked as you described on startup. Found the right oil. PP according to the BITOG used oil analysis. Much quieter at startup but not completely. I just put a cleanup dose (16oz) of MMO in like I always did years ago. It still works! Why GM's like MMO beats me, but its almost entirely cured. Will it remain? Don't know yet. Hopefully it will help clean things up.


WARNING FROM GM ABOUT FLUSH ADDITIVES:

GM Technical Service Bulletin 04-06-01-029E April 2010.

From that bulletin:

-------------------------
Models:
2011 and Prior GM Passenger Cars and Trucks (including Saturn)…

Engine Crankcase Flushing

General Motors Corporation does not endorse or recommend engine crankcase flushing for any of its gasoline engines. Analysis of some of the aftermarket materials used for crankcase flushing indicate incompatibility with GM engine components and the potential for damage to some engine seals and bearings.
Damage to engine components resulting from crankcase flushing IS NOT COVERED under the terms of the New Vehicle Warranty.
-------------------------

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
No, there was no such thing. This is my first GM in well over a decade. PP is reasonably close, maybe the thinnest 5w30. With the pint of MMO in there I bet its close. The first drain coming up in 2 weeks. Expecting a boatload of nastiness. Have some PU going in next to continue cleanup. Think I'll let somebody else try 0w20 first.

Think about it though, with the MMO, you are reducing the viscosity anyway

Which is my point. I'm wondering if it is just the reduction in viscosity that is doing it or if something in the MMO does it.

 

[SteveSRT8]

If the engine is tight and right it's a bad ADBV or a lifter.

Also have heard folks mistake carbon knock in these for lifter issues. Carbon build up is very common.

 

[LeakySeals]

Sure, could be a sub-par filter ADBV.

But after owning other makes for quite a while and recently coming back to GM.. The first thing I noticed was the lack of cranking and how fast the engine started. "click-boom"! with no elevated idle is the best way to describe starting the car. There's no way oil could flow that fast. No way the oil pump was going prior to start. A cleanup should help with flow, prevent any stickyness, etc.

 

[LeakySeals]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
No, there was no such thing. This is my first GM in well over a decade. PP is reasonably close, maybe the thinnest 5w30. With the pint of MMO in there I bet its close. The first drain coming up in 2 weeks. Expecting a boatload of nastiness. Have some PU going in next to continue cleanup. Think I'll let somebody else try 0w20 first.

Think about it though, with the MMO, you are reducing the viscosity anyway

Which is my point. I'm wondering if it is just the reduction in viscosity that is doing it or if something in the MMO does it.

Yeah, I suppose. Its not burning off like Kreen, so the viscosity is remaining the same. Will get an answer when I drain and fill. If it instantly returns, maybe viscosity. If the tick stays gome, MMO cleaned or coated or both.

 

[FADEC]

The engine has been taken care of. I have the full maint. history of the vehicle. Previous owner had it dealer serviced Mobil 1 only.

What filter is known for the best ADBV??

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
No, there was no such thing. This is my first GM in well over a decade. PP is reasonably close, maybe the thinnest 5w30. With the pint of MMO in there I bet its close. The first drain coming up in 2 weeks. Expecting a boatload of nastiness. Have some PU going in next to continue cleanup. Think I'll let somebody else try 0w20 first.

Think about it though, with the MMO, you are reducing the viscosity anyway

Which is my point. I'm wondering if it is just the reduction in viscosity that is doing it or if something in the MMO does it.

Yeah, I suppose. Its not burning off like Kreen, so the viscosity is remaining the same. Will get an answer when I drain and fill. If it instantly returns, maybe viscosity. If the tick stays gome, MMO cleaned or coated or both.


Likely cleaned the lifter. Are you using the mmo at the end of the interval? Ultra is about as good as it gets as far as oils that clean so you may not even need the mmo next time.

 

[LeakySeals]

Originally Posted By: daddi
The engine has been taken care of. I have the full maint. history of the vehicle. Previous owner had it dealer serviced Mobil 1 only.

What filter is known for the best ADBV??
sayjac may pass through, he knows quite a bit about ADBV. But its a combination of ADBV and efficiency. The higher efficiency filters may cause a lag. I say dump the M1 and switch to PP, hopefully that does it. Keep the same filter used now to verify.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Originally Posted By: daddi
The engine has been taken care of. I have the full maint. history of the vehicle. Previous owner had it dealer serviced Mobil 1 only.

What filter is known for the best ADBV??
sayjac may pass through, he knows quite a bit about filters. But its a combination of adbv and efficiency. The higher efficiency filters may cause a lag. I say dump the M1 and switch to PP, hopefully that does it. Keep the same filter used now to verify.


Really? M1 all its life and still has issues. Well it should be clean inside,unless the interval was pushed grossly too far,and more than once.
Well give er the pennzoil and see what happens.

 

[LeakySeals]

Could be the M1 new-brew rattles, why I think he should try the PP.

 

[FADEC]

It has GM dealer 5w30 bulk dino in it now. I have free oil changes for two years because it was a certified used GM vehicle.

However if I thought it would eliminate or minimize the noise I would change it at home with PU in a heartbeat.

 

[LeakySeals]

Assuming engine is clean what I would do..

Swap the filter out with a cheap Walmart Purolator Classic and drive around with the existing oil. Change it cold to minimize oil loss. Wont be much, I've done it.

If it still rattles you've eliminated the filter. Proceed to swapping out M1 with Pennzoil Platinum or Pennzoil Ultra. If that doesn't do it maybe its valve clearance or something else like...just the way it is because of the fast startups, etc. Maybe switching to a 0w20 would do it but I'm leery of it on GM v6/v8 engines unless specified. If you try 0w20 let us know.