Global Debt Time Bomb

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: benjamming
Well, China owning our debt makes me pretty sad


Saw an economist the other day talking about China and the debt.

He was pointing out that the Chinese, en masse, are now at a stage where they can start saving, rather than just make it week to week.

The western standard of living is being propped up on debt, which is being supplied by Chinese retirement savings.

And (my comment), the west either intends to not pay it back, or inflate it away.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Food should never be an issue in the US as you guys have mountains of grains but the "free market" is not a very friendly distribution system if you have no cash and foreign interests own it all...

Globally, grain stocks are at less than a couple months consumption...takes longer than what's there to grow a crop, even if you organise.

 

[Kestas]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
And (my comment), the west either intends to not pay it back, or inflate it away.

My comment too. I mentioned this before, that I expect inflationary times ahead for us. Pre-war Germany used hyperinflation to pay off their debts early to the rest of the world. They were in pretty good economic shape after that.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Food should never be an issue in the US as you guys have mountains of grains but the "free market" is not a very friendly distribution system if you have no cash and foreign interests own it all...

Globally, grain stocks are at less than a couple months consumption...takes longer than what's there to grow a crop, even if you organise.

One would hope ethanol plants and and industrial farms wouldn't be very high on the list for where grain would be sent. Alot of people would have to become vegetarian rather quickly but cutting out industrial meat and fuel production would multiply the amount of calories available probably 5 to 10 fold atleast in N. America.
The odds of having a nation wide coordinated food and fuel strategy to run trucks to deliver it properly aren't real high I imagine, but I don't think a total absolute economic collapse is realistic either.
I think almost everyone will see that its better to fudge the rules of our economic system instead of following them to mass destruction if its leading us there.
Also I think people in most western countries are educated enough to see that acting in societies best interest and not just their own is the only way to avoid descending into absolute chaos like places like Somalia.

 

[Bluestream]

Inflation is coming; buy your Gold (stocks) now...

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
Also I think people in most western countries are educated enough to see that acting in societies best interest and not just their own is the only way to avoid descending into absolute chaos like places like Somalia.


Not according to my leading human indicators. When the going gets tough, the rats start jumping ship and finding the first life boat off the sinking hulk

 

[buster]

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=17415

 

[crinkles]

Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Inflation is coming; buy your Gold (stocks) now...


too late, mate!!!

 

[benjamming]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Also I think people in most western countries are educated enough to see that acting in societies best interest and not just their own is the only way to avoid descending into absolute chaos like places like Somalia.


I don't buy that. We aren't immune to stupidity. What gives us the leg up?

 

[Cutehumor]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Quote:
Also I think people in most western countries are educated enough to see that acting in societies best interest and not just their own is the only way to avoid descending into absolute chaos like places like Somalia.


Not according to my leading human indicators. When the going gets tough, the rats start jumping ship and finding the first life boat off the sinking hulk

aka stock up on guns, ammo, and food

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: benjamming
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Also I think people in most western countries are educated enough to see that acting in societies best interest and not just their own is the only way to avoid descending into absolute chaos like places like Somalia.


I don't buy that. We aren't immune to stupidity. What gives us the leg up?


Probably the experience of having lived in a fairly well run society is our biggest advantage. We know how things should be run, and have some idea how we can help our community get back up.
But even the leadership people in business and government know that they can't and don't want to be leaders in a "mad max" society.
If everyone defaults on their mortgage it starts to make no sense to evict everyone right?

 

[Bryanccfshr]

I don't understand what all the panic /doom and gloom is about.

For those that work and produce in fields that contribute to peoples needs(energy, food, medical) there is security. This has been a great time to cull the less productive workers as well as for the less neccessary financial endeavors to fail.
My apologies to the recently unemployed or bankers who's banks have had their assets siezed and sold by the FDIC(See Charter Bank of New Mexico)as it is not directed personaly but in general.
2009 was was a difficult year of learning to be more efficient and choosing the right, qualified people to do the job and choosing to install/expand capital only when it made financial sense.
Those that could do this have pulled ahead. Those looking for the good old days to return will never, and those that are just now figuring this out are behind.

The County I reside in has 10% + unemployement. The days of a warm body to do a task are over. Our food bank is in crisis as more people depend on it.
I know people of the fallen class in many places in the country. Many can improve their situation if they make a change. A change in location, in domestic partners, in career choice.
The only way to change results is to change what you have been doing.

 

[Smokescreen]

You probably already have seen this, but it is sobering

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Here is also some shocking perspective:
What a trillion dollars looks like: http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=12754

If all the US money was collected on the planet and put towards the US debt, its still would fall vastly short of what is owed....

 

[LS2JSTS]

Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
I don't understand what all the panic /doom and gloom is about.



This visual aid goes a long way to explain some of that doom and gloom.......

http://cohort11.americanobserver.net/latoyaegwuekwe/multimediafinal.html

 

[rshaw125]

There is no free lunch. This debt will have to be paid back either through rampant inflation or much higher taxes. Or both.
Personally I would like to see massive cuts in the US budget in preparation for the new retirees that will be receiving social security and medicare.
How? Bring all American troops home from Japan,Germany and Korea.These are rich countries that can take care of themselves.

Eliminate the departments of education, agriculture and energy.

That would be a good start to show the citizens that Congress is serious about the long term economic health of the country.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

That demonstrates what I was saying about the general culling of non productive people and sectors. Again not all inclusive. There are productive people who were in non productive/nonsustainable sectors who lost their jobs and there may be non productive people in productive sectors.
Economic darwinism on display.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

It is important in times like these to remmeber that worrying about that which is out of our control is not healthy. By focusing on our sphere of influence(our jobs, working hard to assure success/livlihood, our families and our local communities) we have some capability in self determination.
If you feel you have no influence in the success of your employer or business.. then that should be self revealing on the destination of that livlihood.

 

[LS2JSTS]

The problem with your theory is that the most non productive among us are walking between the raindrops in all of this. Unless of course you consider paper pushers and form fillers as productive members of society.

Economic darwinism would suggest some form of natural process at work. On the contrary this decline has been planned and made possible by short sided policies endorsed by our own government. This isn't darwinism, it's the systematic dismantling of the USA, at the benefit of other "producing" nations.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

That sounds like victim mentality to me.

 

[LS2JSTS]

Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
That sounds like victim mentality to me.


Trust me, I'll be just fine....except for a fall into complete chaos, I've got myself and my own covered. I'm no victim.

That being said, that fact doesn't preclude me from commenting on the farse of an economy our government has set up. Proper trade policies and protections such as China and Japan have used against us would have saved many of the people you label as unproductive.