Generator use and CO detector

[Donald]

How many people have a AC/battery CO detector near where they might expect CO to get back into the house?. When a storm hits (CT snow storm in Nov 2011 it was 18%) a number of the storm related deaths are CO poisoning.

I just got a CO & gas (propane/natural) detector at BJs for $40. Its AC & battery and has a digital display for CO or gas concentrations. My main generator is propane. You can pull the power cube out and mount it a few feet from the outlet. Natural gas; high on the wall, propane; near the floor.

I ran my 50K BTU propane torpedo heater in the garage for about 30 minutes and the detector never went above 0.

 

[simple_gifts]

I've run a tank top propane burner in my house for a few hours a day if necessary (purchased for emergency heat) and I think it really depends on the house. My house, a masterpiece of 1880 building techniques, has no issues letting fresh air in. When the spruce floor boards contract in the winter on the first floor, I can see the light on in the basement.

 

[SHOZ]

CO2 would be more of a concern with the torpedo heater I would think.

 

[Keith_Stone]

Some propane heaters surprisingly produce little if no CO. I've got a double "Mr. Heater" that's clean with my handheld Fluke CO meter. CO detectors just make plain sense with any carbon fuels being burned nearby. Test those detectors if possible time to time but NEVER use a automotive exhaust directly. The CO is so highly concentrated it can ruin the CO sensor. Lighting a cig/cigar or burning a small piece of paper in an enclosed space will often work.

 

[larryinnewyork]

My Mother had a neighbor who died from CO poisoning.

Male, 40 y.o.
Married with 1 child

I believe he had a gas heater in his garage that was not properly vented.
He was able to get out of his garage (thru man door).
But then collapsed in front of big door.
A neighbor came home and saw him laying there (already dead).

CO is a silent killer.
If you have a wife & children, this may be a good time to think of them.

 

[eljefino]

I got a CO detector with fancy digital display, mainly because I have a wood stove which could go berzerk somehow. But I do run a generator as well. It sits ten feet away from the house when running.

I was dismayed after purchasing it, that the digital display won't show 10ppm even though it can detect it. The threshold of 25ppm will get it to make noise. This appears to be a result of first-generation CO detectors bugging people with false positives.

Also, they wear out after 7 years and need replacement. I paid extra for this LCD display that appears to be a worthless trinket.

My CO detector runs off batteries exclusively which is fine. I got a hardwired/battery smoke detector that claims WILL NOT WORK on AC alone. (It does at least chirp annoyingly.) Not sure if this is "blowing smoke" by the maker to ensure people keep working batteries in it or another rip-off.

 

[volk06]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
CO2 would be more of a concern with the torpedo heater I would think.


Negative. CO is a more toxic gas that will kill you in much smaller concentrations that CO2. CO is a byproduct from fossil fuel combustion.

 

[SHOZ]

Originally Posted By: volk06
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
CO2 would be more of a concern with the torpedo heater I would think.


Negative. CO is a more toxic gas that will kill you in much smaller concentrations that CO2. CO is a byproduct from fossil fuel combustion.


I know that but with a gas appliance meant to burn in an enclosed area CO2 is what builds up. CO is a product of inefficient
I heat my whole house on a ventless 20K btu propane wall heater. Humidity build up is the biggest problem and CO2 if there is not enough air exchange from outside air infiltration. The CO2 build up is a problem when the ambient temps get around 0F and no wind. The heater runs a variable btu output and 8500 is the low flame. Hardly ever goes to the full 20K btu except in the morning to bring up the temp in the house for an hour.

 

[volk06]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Originally Posted By: volk06
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
CO2 would be more of a concern with the torpedo heater I would think.


Negative. CO is a more toxic gas that will kill you in much smaller concentrations that CO2. CO is a byproduct from fossil fuel combustion.


I know that but with a gas appliance meant to burn in an enclosed area CO2 is what builds up. CO is a product of inefficient
I heat my whole house on a ventless 20K btu propane wall heater. Humidity build up is the biggest problem and CO2 if there is not enough air exchange from outside air infiltration. The CO2 build up is a problem when the ambient temps get around 0F and no wind. The heater runs a variable btu output and 8500 is the low flame. Hardly ever goes to the full 20K btu except in the morning to bring up the temp in the house for an hour.


It takes well over 5,000 PPM of CO2 to have a negative effect on humans where CO is 35PPM over 8 hours. Thats a big difference in the toxicity of the two gases. CO2 build up is not that big of a concern

 

[SHOZ]

Well living in a house heated by a ventless gas heater I disagree. I do not say CO is not dangerous. I do say a ventless heater can cause CO2 problems. Enough to be irritating at times.

 

[volk06]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Well living in a house heated by a ventless gas heater I disagree. I do not say CO is not dangerous. I do say a ventless heater can cause CO2 problems. Enough to be irritating at times.


Interesting, do you have a digital CO2 detector?

 

[SHOZ]

No I don't but plan on getting one. This is my second winter with the heater. Last year I used my forced air furnace to bring the house up to temp and this relieved the ventless heater of going full flame. This year I haven't used the furnace. Might have to tomorrow though. Suppose to get to <0F and 30 mph winds.

 

[volk06]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
No I don't but plan on getting one. This is my second winter with the heater. Last year I used my forced air furnace to bring the house up to temp and this relieved the ventless heater of going full flame. This year I haven't used the furnace. Might have to tomorrow though. Suppose to get to div>


How do you know it is CO2 causing the problems without a detector? What problems are you having?

 

[SHOZ]

No problems. I can just tell the air gets "stale".

I see these are around $115 shipped on ebay.

CO2 detectors

 

[Rand]

C02 is mostly dangerous because it displaces oxygen
takes a high level to actually be bad for you. I mean think about it.. you breath C02 out.

High(er) levels make for poor air quality.

C0 is dangerous because it binds to red blood cells which then cannot carry oxygen.
about 100ppm is dangerous.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide_poisoning

 

[Wolf359]

I think one story of CO poisoning was when a guy ran a generator in his garage and when he went to fill it up with gas, he was overcome by CO and died. Maybe he figured if the door was open or he wasn't in there long it wouldn't matter but I guess it does.

As for those ventless heaters, they're not legal in some states or say that they can't be used as a primary heat source. I think they do have some sensors in them that are supposed to shut them off at some stage.

 

[volk06]

How do you like the ventless heater? I've been thinking of getting one for my garage to help heat it in the winter. I just want it at a constant 45F, It maintains 30F just from the heat of the vehicle engines. I'd probably run it off of a propane 35lb propane cylinder or id have to run a natural gas line.

 

[volk06]

Originally Posted By: Rand
C02 is mostly dangerous because it displaces oxygen
takes a high level to actually be bad for you. I mean think about it.. you breath C02 out.

C0 is dangerous because it binds to red blood cells which then cannot carry oxygen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide_poisoning


Correct, they are both asphyxiants because you die from the lack of oxygen.

 

[SHOZ]

Originally Posted By: volk06
How do you like the ventless heater? I've been thinking of getting one for my garage to help heat it in the winter. I just want it at a constant 45F, It maintains 30F just from the heat of the vehicle engines. I'd probably run it off of a propane 35lb propane cylinder or id have to run a natural gas line.


It's great. Cut my fuel bill from $1000 a year on heating oil to under $200 for the propane to heat. Plus cut $30 a month off the electric bill.

Mine is an open flame, they make infrared versions too. You can get an optional blower that helps keep the temp more even
and only uses 14w of power.

Most of my neighbors have them in the garage. They also will burn up cigarette smoke if that's in the air. Beware of 91333 btus per gallon. They make through the wall vented models too. The Nat Gas ones are a little lower in btu output.

Here's what I have, the BF-20 model in propane.

Empire SR Radiant Heaters

 

[SHOZ]

Beware of gasoline fumes is what the post should have said. And propane is 91333 btus a gallon.