Generator Recommendation

[Al]

To keep it simple you might want to run a dedicated line right to the furnace and mount a transfer switch there and then utilize an extension cord with a receptacle box on it to a strategic location in your house and then utilize extension cords (ready to go) for the rest of your needs.

I am basically doing that. Not perfect but will save some serious bucks.

 

[Cup of Joe]

You can also use the 220 wired into the house at the external panel through a 2 pole and control your circuits via your interior panel. This is what I do.

http://www.oru.com/energyandsafety/storms/portablegenerators.html

I can use any portable with a 220 outlet and power all lights, entertainment, computers etc. I limit the large load curcuits manually. I can run 2 fridges, coffee makers, microwave etc but not all at the same time with the smaller 5500w unit. I have all electric so the water heater is a big draw. I would flip off 1 fridge and flip on the water heater in the evenings when I got home for a hot shower and bath for my kid. During the day as long as the gas is full when I leave it will last. I power my fridges and full lights or 1 fridge and leave excess power for coffee maker microwave etc. My wife is a stay at home mother so I make sure she has access to some conveniences. If you flip off your large loads at night and while you are gone during the day its not to much trouble to control. I leave off the washer and drier, cook top, oven and limit the water heater and hvac.

The biggest down side to portables is fueling them and the expense associated. My larger gen will burn roughly 5 gallons in 8-10 hours depending on load. You can install a kit on the carb so they can be run off of propane to help with fueling options. There are several ways to reach the same result you just need to figure out what works best for you.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: TaterandNoodles
You can also use the 220 wired into the house at the external panel through a 2 pole and control your circuits via your interior panel. This is what I do.

Are you using a Transfer switch. Which is a requirement

 

[Cup of Joe]

My elctrician installed an interlock plate so no worries of backfeeding the power line. He also installed my 240V in next to the power panel.

http://www.interlockkit.com/

 

[Vikas]

Is the interlockckit lot cheaper? It is a great but simple idea and should be significantly cheaper than the regular transfer switch. Can you give ballpark figure for the total cost?

The only 220V appliance I have would whole house A/C unit. Is it better to take the 220V from generator and then split it inside the house (i.e. similar to the line feed)? That way the losses would be minimized. Can generator provide all its rated power at 220V?

I have kill-a-watt and would try to see if I can measure some of the loads but it probably can not get the starting in rush.

- Vikas

 

[eljefino]

A 240V generator will need its two 120 sides loaded equally. So a 5500 watt 240 will be 2750 watts per side. Some have switches that let you gang the two phases together to make all power available at a 30 amp RV style plug. If you don't NEED the 240, you should leave that switch in the 120V mode. If you do a whole house install and switch to 120, the 240 stuff simply won't work.

I would stay with 120V and maybe get a $99 walmart window AC unit for backup.

I don't understand your desire for a working garage door opener, unless there's someone disabled. Pull the little red string on the track, presto, manual door!

Though most portable generators have a low oil shutdown I would be leery of leaving one running with an unoccupied house. Sometimes when they run out of gas they start surging and going nuts, which you should intercept before blowing up your appliances. A "permanent install" one probably has more safety stuff. But then we're talking $3000 instead of $400.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
A 240V generator will need its two 120 sides loaded equally.

Well that's not really necessary but you can only get the rated load if they are loaded eqaully.

I see no problem loading one side (of the 230V ) with half the rated load and zero on the other side. But yea..don't try to put rated load of the whole generator on one 120V side.

 

[itguy08]

Congrats on getting the wife to go along with the generator. Mine was a little easy to convince. We have a usually full freezer and a fridge. On a long outage (1 day in the summer) you will probably loose all the food in both so that right there could easily be $500. And with our finished basement we need something to run the sump pump.

If you get a 220 unit and don't do a manual transfer switch, you can use a cord like this:
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_07107371000P?prdNo=6&blockNo=6&blockType=G6

It will let you split the 220 twist lock. The good thing is that the twist lock won't vibrate loose like a regular cord could. Just put 1 heavy load on 1 side the other on the other, etc. Try to keep it as balanced as possible .

One thing you might want to consider is how long you plan to be in your house. We plan to be gone by next summer (as soon as the basement is finished it goes on the market) so a permanent install is out. But if we were to do it over again 11 years ago I'd go permanent. By the time I add up the $600 for the generator, the $100-200 for the cords, etc, etc, I'm 1/2 way to the $2k for a permanent unit.

Think long and hard about propane or natural gas. You need just as much propane as gasoline and when run on propane there is less watts available as propane doesn't contain as much energy as gas. So you may end up with a couple large propane tanks that you need to get filled rather than gas that needs to be filled. And the propane place may not be open after an emergency. Natural gas would probably be the best option if it's available.

Don't forget Diesel as well. it stores almost forever and if you heat with oil, heating oil is a close substitute for Diesel.

Not sure I'd leave a portable unattended and running. It may grow legs, could have a gas leak and start a fire, sputter and die (bad as things can spike), etc. Ours I wheel from the shed to the end of the carport, point the exhaust to the bushes and chain it to the support of the carport. There's about 10ft from our window and more than that from the neighbors. You do want to keep the exhaust pointed away from the house and the unit somewhat away from the house. Also a battery CO detector or 2 in the house is a good thing.

 

[Cup of Joe]

You can pull all your power from the 220V with no problems. Depending on the generator you may have to switch it to 240. Through the power panel it will be split as needed, you are not sending 240V into your 120V fridge. I leave my generator in 240V and power the house, limiting large loads. I have run 2 fridges, coffee pot (1100W) 3 window ac units, all lights just like normal, entertainment and computers with my larger unit. Motors have large starting watts but worse are items that generate heat. Coffee pots are 900-1200 watts. I have 1 that is 900 and the other is 1100, you can find the required wattage on the base normally. Electric water heats, ovens and cook tops are my largest draws beside full HVAC.

As for cost my electrician described the interlock as a $10 piece of metal and a $40 sticker. I was able to have my electrician install the interlock, 2 pole, 240V weather proof socket and assemble a heavy duty cable for $250. That was a couple years ago when electrical works was slow and there was zero storm damage. Any of the cheap chinese generators will work. I purchased a "dependable power" 5500W generator at Pepboys when my larger unit failed. I have since repaired and run my larger Generac. The Pepboys unit was $512 with tax post Irene. A rule of thumb at this point in time is $100 will buy you 1000w. 7500w can be had for roughly $700 if its from china. My generac 7000 EXL 7000w runing/12250w surge cost $1200 8 years ago.

 

[Cup of Joe]

Originally Posted By: itguy08
If you get a 220 unit and don't do a manual transfer switch, you can use a cord like this:
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_07107371000P?prdNo=6&blockNo=6&blockType=G6



My generac came with a similar cord 20ft with 4 heads. I used it on a neighbors generator following Irene along with other cords I have.

Give people a few days without power and they will come knocking.

 

[Vikas]

I thought you had to balance the 240V in to two 120V feeds.

We are also looking at the permanent installation with natural gas but that becomes crazy expensive and is not as widespread thus is not well-supported. A new permanent structure will have to be erected to shelter the standby unit from drifting snow that we get every year. I suspect when all said and done it will top at least $10K at least in material and labor. Even if we were willing to cough up that much money, such specialized and uncommon setup would imply huge service hassles.

We have couple our elder parents living with us and that is why I am looking for a solution which allows unattended operation during the daytime.

Yesterday night I looked at some of the rating plates on the appliances and the breaker box. My furnace has 15A breaker. The furnace itself seems to be hardwired with a switch; unless I take off the access panel, I will not be able to look at the blower ratings or use kill-a-watt to measure the drain. Next to the furnace has an outlet box which I am assuming is on the same circuit. Hooked up there are drain pump, whole house humidifier, electrostatic filter, and the basement fridge. That fridge has 4.5A rating plate. The hot-water blower has 3.1A rating plate. The upstairs freeze is little older and is 6.5A rating.

So the minimum current requirement is 15A+4A(water heater)+6.5A; so at least 30A just for the essentials. I should be looking at 5500W unit at least. This means I want to be able to run minimally:-

1) furnace
2) hot water heater
3) two fridges
4) some CFL

We can definitely do some load shedding so that hot water will only run when the lights are not on or something like that if needed. I can forget the garage door but it does not have external lock, so it will be inconvenient to lock it from inside.

I want one which would have
Thanks,
- Vikas

 

[tdpark]

Hondas are really quiet but they are pricey and will probably be double that but they are inverter type and really fuel efficient.

 

[Al]

Did you consider the use of a natural gas stove to heat even one room of your house?

Heat is the critical element in winter and using this (NG) will be 10 times more reliable than the generator running your whole house heating system.

I have a small propane stove in my addition. I can keep that room warm for months bc I have a 500 gal propane tank.

Just trust me (many will disagree) but unless you are prepared to test your system for a day. and periodically thereafter, reliability will be low. You can do without everything except.

I would suggest (if you go with the generator) and don't want to spring for a NG stove, buy a kerosene heater and keep 10 (gallons) of kerosene on hand. By being careful you could keep a large room livable for 5 days.

I have a Generator but its merely a convenience item.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
This is getting ridiculous :-( We lose power if there is any reason and it does not come back for days. Even a village in the third world where the power goes regularly, it is never off for days like at my house. On top of it, the website for National Grid is a disaster. Not only it hangs, it uses flash so it is not usable with iPhone and when power goes out, that is the only connectivity that I have. Enough ranting ..

I need a generator which can run
- Gas furnace blower + electrostatic filter
- Gas water heater with electric blower
- Two refrigerators
- 2 garage door openers
- Washer + gas dryer
- Some CFL lights

My estimation is that 4K Watts should be more than enough. I want something which can be permanently installed outside and can withstand New England weather. I do not know where I would be able to put it so that when the outside has 4 feet of snow surrounding the house.

Any recommendations and ideas?

Thanks,
- Vikas


let's think about this a little.

Your run of the mill HD generator at 4k will be big and bulky, loud too. I think you could scheme something a bit better.

Let's consider:

I need a generator which can run
- Gas furnace blower + electrostatic filter - what is the load???


- Gas water heater with electric blower - What is the load???

- Two refrigerators - if the power is out, can you withdraw to minimally opening them so the cold stays in? Perhaps you can alternate and keep just one online at any time?

- 2 garage door openers - is the ONLY way into your garage via the big doors? Can't you disconnect them and manually operate them?

- Washer + gas dryer - Very limited use, and what is the load?

- Some CFL lights - OK

Seems to me that there is a bit too much "everyday life" built into running generator ops.

Unless living in a very power loss-prone area (hurricane zone where you would buy a diesel gen and really power your house because it could be months), or have some need like insulin storage, medical assist devices (where again youd probably buy a real diesel gen and do it right), Im generally not a fan of installing disconnect switches and trying to run the house with all sorts of circuits isolated, etc.

I prefer to set up critical things such that I can feed them via a 10ga extension cord. Refrigerators, washer/dryer, etc. are no brainers. The water heater and furnace are another story. Are they hardwired? Is there a way to get power into those circuits if you isolate them at the panel?

Im going through the consideration of how to power my furnace via my robin subary 1700W inverter generator. Everything else I can run one at a time and keep it that way for simplicity. I dont have a well, so that's in theory OK.

What I personally would love to be able to do is wire my furnace in such a way that I cannot backfeed to the panel, and then be able to plug in my gen to the furnace, start it up, and have heat.

If the power is out, we have two issues - fuel availability and runtime. I dont see the ROI to do some fancy whole house thing, but it would be nice to have a simple connectivity scheme for the furnace or in your case, the furnace and HWH. if either plug into a normal outlet, theyre easy to power...

 

[JHZR2]

And I missed the elder parents part. Changes up a bit.

The inlaws have a nice autmatic kubota diesel genset setup. Works great. But they keep 55gal drums of diesel on hand to support. They get enough power outages to go through it in time.

 

[Scott P]

We lost power during Ike and I was finally able to get a B&S 5,500 Watt portable unit to get us by until the power came back. It is a basic model and loud, but gets the job done. I installed a ten circuit transfer switch to handle the power transfer. It's nice not having to run extension cords. Of course, we've only lost power a total of two times since then, each lasting about half a day or so.

In your case, I would step right up to a real standby unit. They kick in automatically and don't require you to be home. With power outages as frequent as yours are, I think it is the best way. The cost is more upfront, but the benefits are much bigger. No extension cords, no dangerous backfeeding, no need to haul gas cans, etc.

 

[Vikas]

My trouble with the real standby unit is the maintenance and how to keep its surrounding free of the snow. We have snow drifts as tall as me. How would I be able to dig it all the way back to the unit and then clear the frozen tundra stuck to the unit?

The glossy brochures show all the real standby units nice and enclosed but I do not think they will work when they are buried under six feet of snow in my backyard Seriously, if you know that real standby unit runs even when it is buried in the snow, I would think about investing in it. I hate buying more hassles with more money though.

That is the reason a portable wheeled unit in my garage appeals to me.

What is "ten circuit transfer switch"? How does a transfer switch selectively handles individual circuit? I was under impression that transfer switch switches the entire feed from the power company to the generator. But that must be wrong assumption because generator does not give its full power out of its single output.

Thanks,
- Vikas

 

[Shannow]

Don't forget to knock one of these up.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2379592#Post2379592

10-12 cubic inches of hardwood twigs can boil 4 cups of water, or cook bacon and eggs.

 

[RW1]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
What is "ten circuit transfer switch"? How does a transfer switch selectively handles individual circuit? I was under impression that transfer switch switches the entire feed from the power company to the generator. But that must be wrong assumption because generator does not give its full power out of its single output.


I believe he's referring to a Generator Transfer Switch or GENTRAN. It allows you to route power to the specific circuits just like your fuze box. You can control your power output by shutting down certain areas of the house to save power.

I have a Generac 5500 portable model at my house with a GENTRAN. Unfortunately I have an electric heat pump, water heater and appliances so my generator will not power them. But it will easily power my house lights, fans, pellet stove, refrigerator, chest freezer, TVs, and so on. The GENTRAN allows us to use the regular light switches and power outlets instead of running extension cables all over. So when I have a power failure, we go in the camping mode. We heat the house with the pellet stove; circulate warmth with fans; and take baths. I heat up water and cook outside with my Coleman stoves. After a week, we're all feeling a little grungy but we're warm and dry.

I'm shopping for a Honda 6500is generator at this time. That Generac is very loud and even more so when everything else around you is dead quiet. I always worry that someone might try to "borrow it". When running, I can hear it a block and a half away. With the Honda, you can barely hear it 15 yards away.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2


What I personally would love to be able to do is wire my furnace in such a way that I cannot backfeed to the panel, and then be able to plug in my gen to the furnace, start it up, and have heat.



They make exactly what you want, but usually charge $68 or so. (Darn storms jacking up everyone's prices.

)