Generator Recommendation

[Vikas]

This is getting ridiculous :-( We lose power if there is any reason and it does not come back for days. Even a village in the third world where the power goes regularly, it is never off for days like at my house. On top of it, the website for National Grid is a disaster. Not only it hangs, it uses flash so it is not usable with iPhone and when power goes out, that is the only connectivity that I have. Enough ranting ..

I need a generator which can run
- Gas furnace blower + electrostatic filter
- Gas water heater with electric blower
- Two refrigerators
- 2 garage door openers
- Washer + gas dryer
- Some CFL lights

My estimation is that 4K Watts should be more than enough. I want something which can be permanently installed outside and can withstand New England weather. I do not know where I would be able to put it so that when the outside has 4 feet of snow surrounding the house.

Any recommendations and ideas?

Thanks,
- Vikas

 

[95busa]

I think you are going to need a bigger gen. I run a troybilt 5.5kw with a B+S engine and run significantly less stuff than you. Remember, about 65-80% of rated load is as high as you want to go. Surge will occur when your major appliances cycle off and on (fridges, blowers, garage door openers, etc). If you already know this I apologize for beating a dead horse, but I would think I big two cylinder job would be what you are looking for with 7.5kw or more constant load. I live in Northern VA, and missed this one, but I went through Katrina in Louisiana and "Snowmageddon" when I moved up here, and I will say that more generator than you need is never a bad thing. Too little is a show stopper. (Hence my dad burned up a 3.5kw in 24 hours during Katrina).

 

[Cup of Joe]

How much are you willing to spend? A standby like you are refering to typically cost roughly $2k minimum.

http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/...-Generator.html

Pepboys has a cheap portable 5500w unit for $500. I have 2 portables now with a interlock plate. I use the 220 from the generator into the house.

http://www.interlockkit.com/

My larger generator 7K watts shorted the voltage regulator during the last storm, so now I have 2. Lead time on 1 regulator was more then a week.

 

[typ901]

http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/products/generators/wattagecalculator.aspx

Maybe this will help you? Wattage estimator.

 

[Al]

If it were me I would put the washer on the lowest priority and not even plan for it. Starting current for motors is pretty high and you will get voltage droop unless you have a really good governor..which is where the big bucks come in..

Pick the biggest motor you want to run and then size the thing for say double that load. You will still need to be careful with starting current if you have it loaded to 50% capacity and then throw the motor on. In fact you will be really too light.

Remember these things suck up gasoline like there is no tomorrow. Consider NG or diesel. And you need a double pole double switch upstream of the main breaker.

I recently downgraded and no longer go into my fuse box. I run an extension to my "snow room" which has its own propane stove (no motor) and its a matter of unplugging my two power strips and plugging them into the extension.

I have a 10HP Brigs Cast Iron engine which I geared up to run at 2800 rpm. Naturally I lose several HP in the process. I can do 4KW. At 2KW it sucks about a gallon every 3 hours.

 

[Cup of Joe]

Generac's residential estimator may help. Basicly its pay to play.

http://www.generac.com/Residential/Sizer/

Several good points have been brought up. If you get a small standby unit be sure you get the automatic transfer switch which will manage your power needs. If you go with something smaller, possibly a portable are you willing to go into the interior power panel and manage your loads that way by opening and closing circuits as need.

 

[SrDriver]

A cousin lives in Northern Wisconsin and has problems with electricity too.

He got a company that does that kind of work to install a system for his home that runs on Propane with automatic switchover.

You will quite a large system to run everything you mentioned.

 

[Donald]

Forget the washer/dryer. You can get a clamp on AMP meter and measure each motor for running and peak AMPs.

I would suggest a transfer switch. Its the safest way to go and is legal. Extension cords to things will get to be a PIA quickly.

A permanent generator is probably not going to be gasoline. Propane or diesel if you have no NG.

 

[GMBoy]

I agree - you need a bigger Generator or don't use some of those items.

Don't forget the start up surge needed for some items. I would think a furnace blower and the washer would be too much for even a 5000 unit.

I just bought a nice 3500 (4000 peak) unit. All I want to keep running is the fridge and a couple small items. The box listed some items' running power and start up power and a 1.5 hp compressor needed 4500 watts to start! Then needed only 1000 to run so this start up power is what will cost you.

 

[itguy08]

I've got this unit and it's been working for us through a couple power outages:

http://www.harborfreight.com/engines-gen...tart-98838.html

It starts up with the electric start (takes about 5 seconds but it always fires up) and I've powered the following from it:

* Kitchen Fridge
* Freezer
* Dorm fridge (have to keep the beer cold)
* FIOS router/ box
* 1500w space heater
* laptop and cell phones
* couple CF lights

I've thrown the coffeemaker on there for good measure. It seems to take it all in stride and doesn't seem to be strained.
I've not tried our furnace yet as we have a kerosene heater that we can use.

You'll also need a transfer switch or good extension cords. I've got 1 for each room that we feed in through a window. Each is rated to run at least a space heater (1625w) and I have labels on each. That way each room can have some power and worst case is I can run a space heater without fear of fire. Luckily we're in a small ranch style house so I can use 25 and 50 ft cords.

During this winter storm we fired it up and ran it from 12:30am to 7am running all that was listed above and it still had about a gallon of gas left in the tank. It was worth it as the wife and I didn't freeze in our bedroom!

Can't comment on the gas usage as I'm not that concerned - we can work around that with 2 5-gallon jugs. I've heard natural gas ones also drink fuel and it's not unheard of to get a $400+ NG bill if you loose power for a week or so. With gasoline we can "see" where the $$ goes and curtail as to not get a shock.

Check this thread for more tips:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...;gonew=1#UNREAD

In short it's for emergency use only so you need to size accordingly. You'll probably have to shift some loads if you want to run all that. Like, say no furnace or fridge while washing clothes.

Most important is to figure your watts and and add 10% and go from there.

 

[440Magnum]

Companies like Generac, Onan, and UBS make permanent genset packages with switchgear that should suit your needs. You definitely don't want to try to adapt your typical portable genset to this application and be manually re-configuring your wiring whenever you need it.

 

[user52165]

There a huge difference between using extension cords and a transfer switch. With all your listings, you will need a bigger unit as mentioned.

Don't try and do this on the cheap. Sounds like you need to do much more research and spend more than you thought. A transfer switch whether it is auto or manual is the way to go. It must be done to code or someone can get killed.
Propane or NG is better also. Forget the low end Chicom junk - get a major brand.

The snow issue is something you will have provide much more info on.

Check the Costco website - believe it or not, they have this stuff.

 

[tig1]

Go bigger than you think you need. If you think you need 4K go to 6k.

 

[user52165]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Companies like Generac, Onan, and UBS make permanent genset packages with switchgear that should suit your needs. You definitely don't want to try to adapt your typical portable genset to this application and be manually re-configuring your wiring whenever you need it.



+1 Agreed 100%

 

[itguy08]

I agree a transfer switch is really the way to go especially if you get frequent power outages. In our situation we don't plan on being in this house next year so extension cords are where we're at. It's no big deal as I chain the generator to the carport support (exhaust blowing out to bushes) at the far end of the house. There's a kitchen window within 10 feet that we run the cords into. I can have everything set up in 15 minutes. If we were going to be here longer I'd have the electrician out for a transfer switch.

Also, definitely buy more than you think you will need. During our first power outage we borrowed a Honda EU2000i from a friend. We were able to barely run the fridges, freezer, laptops and internet. Coffee maker needed me to remove the fridges. That friend needed his back and we borrowed a 5.5kw from the in-laws. That let us run a bunch more of our house and sealed the deal as to that wattage.

First you have to figure what you are going to power from it and go from there. Think about what you can live without or shift loads to make work. I'd also get a unit that does 110/220v if you are thinking transfer switch or have an electric stove or central AC.

Remember if you go portable you need to periodically exercise it. I have an entry in my iCal for each month and I go out, fire it up and run a 1500 watt space heater and a 500w halogen shop light for about a half hour.

Fortunately or unfortunately we've needed a generator the past 3 out of the last 3 months. Once for Irene (August), once for Lee (September), and once for the Snopocalypse (this weekend). If this is what the winter holds we're in for a wild ride!

 

[justinf89]

Id recommend higher than 6k watts at least

 

[eljefino]

Stop estimating. Go to your library and borrow a kill-a-watt. There are lots of dire predictions about guzzling appliances.

I just got through the snow with a full size brand new fridge (270 watts), full size freezer ( 120V breaker- jet pump- shallow well), the internet, and some CFLs on a 2500/3250 surge "All Power" Chinese deal. The CFLs did an odd little blink (not a flicker really) when the well pump kicked on but you'd never know I wasn't on shore power otherwise. I couldn't even hear the thing inside the kitchen, just the fridge purring. Big generators= LOUD (!) and gas guzzling.

I don't even see any of your stuff listed needing 220V.

If you get a transfer switch like this one

(Link- Amazon), you can get most of your money back years later on ebay when you upgrade. Ask me how I know, I was searching for a used one then finally bought new when the price difference was minimal. You can wire up the transfer switch before you buy the generator, then plug in a nice thick 12 gauge extension cord and plug it into an unaffected outlet thru the kill-a-watt, and see what various essential things need. Never exceed the 15 amps the kill a watt is limited to, but take notes and add everything up. You might find a way to switch circuits on with the heaviest surges first.

The beauty of this switch is it runs six of your most needed circuits, and if you flip each switch then wait a couple seconds the start up surge is less than one huge shock to the system. You can also wire it in without having the electric company shut off your service; it's post-main-breaker.

As for the installation of a portable, if you go this route, pour a pad, stick a loop in it for a chain/lock, put a "doghouse" on top?

 

[user52165]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
Stop estimating. Go to your library and borrow a kill-a-watt. There are lots of dire predictions about guzzling appliances.

I just got through the snow with a full size brand new fridge (270 watts), full size freezer ( 120V breaker- jet pump- shallow well), the internet, and some CFLs on a 2500/3250 surge "All Power" Chinese deal. The CFLs did an odd little blink (not a flicker really) when the well pump kicked on but you'd never know I wasn't on shore power otherwise. I couldn't even hear the thing inside the kitchen, just the fridge purring. Big generators= LOUD (!) and gas guzzling.

I don't even see any of your stuff listed needing 220V.

If you get a transfer switch like this one

(Link- Amazon), you can get most of your money back years later on ebay when you upgrade. Ask me how I know, I was searching for a used one then finally bought new when the price difference was minimal. You can wire up the transfer switch before you buy the generator, then plug in a nice thick 12 gauge extension cord and plug it into an unaffected outlet thru the kill-a-watt, and see what various essential things need. Never exceed the 15 amps the kill a watt is limited to, but take notes and add everything up. You might find a way to switch circuits on with the heaviest surges first.

The beauty of this switch is it runs six of your most needed circuits, and if you flip each switch then wait a couple seconds the start up surge is less than one huge shock to the system. You can also wire it in without having the electric company shut off your service; it's post-main-breaker.

As for the installation of a portable, if you go this route, pour a pad, stick a loop in it for a chain/lock, put a "doghouse" on top?


This leaves out one important fact. You need reserve power at start up for major appliances. Can't just add up the watts and buy the total. A 50% reserve is a good figure. You need to be highly qualified if you plan to wire a transfer switch in yourself.

Plus - you will always find something extra to run you didn't plan on.

 

[eljefino]

A non-inverter generator will, with its flywheel effect, truck through surges too quick for Kill-a-watt to see. It samples every 1/2 second or so, so the peak reading it gives is a good working number. If you flip each circuit individually like I describe, you only need enough reserve for your largest surge appliance. OP is describing several different motors and compressors in his house; he can start them one at a time with that 6 circuit switch. Once running, the odds of any two trying to start at the same time would be extremely small.

 

[Vikas]

Thanks! The "boss" has given the ultimatum, so it is going to happen. I do not want to end up with the white elephant i.e. something which is so high end that servicing it becomes an issue. We can curtail the usage or stagger it e.g. no washer/dryer with garage doors etc but the gas furnace, gas water heater (with electric vent) and two fridges and some cfl lights are must. Also the whole setup should be such that once I put it on generator, it will run by itself i.e. I can go to work and not have to worry about it running out of gas or tripping etc.

How far can the generator be from the service panel? The dilemma I have is that if I go with a big one, it will have to be permanently installed and that will be very expensive and servicing would be another issue. A moderate sized with wheels I can store it in garage and wheel it out just outside of the garage but then it will pretty much exposed to the element during its running. The neighborhood is safe but I think I would need a way to secure it somehow if it is going to be highly visible from the street and also would need something to protect it if it had to run through the snow storm.

- Vikas