GDI Engine Soot In Oil - Best Filter ?

[ChrisD46]

Having a GDI engine , I read where the soot produced by direct injection engines is abrasive and can cause wear .
The way to combat this is mainly with lower mile OCI's (<5K miles) but I would think that having the best filtering possible (i.e. Fram Ultra) would be better at removing soot than say a Hyundai OEM filter or other paper filters - your thoughts ?

 

[StevieC]

No filter will filter out GDI soot particles because they are too small in size. It's the number of these particles over time that make the oil abbrasive. Changing your oil on time is the best course of action.
You can use a lab like TestOil in Ohio to find what the soot levels are and make a judgement call based on this if you want to monitor it. (They do particle counting)

Using a Dexos 1 Gen 2 oil is best for protection. (that also meets your vehicles specifications in the manual)

This doesn't mean 3K mile OCI's but it also doesn't mean you can go 15,000 mile OCI's. To find out run a used oil analysis with soot particle count and then just play within this recommended OCI.

 

[Rat407]

Wouldn't a by-pass filter help?

 

[UG_Passat]

Diesels have to deal with more soot loading than GDI.

It's not the number of particles that makes it abrasive, but the size of particles. Diesels have to worry about soot loading as it can increase the viscosity index of the oil.

Diesels have used paper filters for along time, and they don't have issues with soot related wear. It's more in the oil additives than anything else.

 

[Danno]

Just did some searching on particle sizes.
This article talks about GDI soot particles being 5nm, that is the equivalent of 0.005 microns.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0301679X15000432

This BITOG post talks about Ultra filtering 10 - 20 Microns - as per FRAM technical training manager.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2653866

If my math is correct, the soot particles are about 2000x smaller than can be filtered by the best Ultra spec at 10 Microns.

Change your oil more often, and use the blue can from Hyundai is my recommendation. Great construction and proper bypass rating.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted by UG_Passat
Diesels have to deal with more soot loading than GDI.

It's not the number of particles that makes it abrasive, but the size of particles. Diesels have to worry about soot loading as it can increase the viscosity index of the oil.

Diesels have used paper filters for along time, and they don't have issues with soot related wear. It's more in the oil additives than anything else.

Diesel soot and GDI soot are not the same thing, similar yes, but the same that's a hard no.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted by Rat407
Wouldn't a by-pass filter help?

Unfortunately no. I asked this question and per Danno's post that is why.

Originally Posted by Danno
Just did some searching on particle sizes.
This article talks about GDI soot particles being 5nm, that is the equivalent of 0.005 microns.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0301679X15000432

This BITOG post talks about Ultra filtering 10 - 20 Microns - as per FRAM technical training manager.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2653866

If my math is correct, the soot particles are about 2000x smaller than can be filtered by the best Ultra spec at 10 Microns.

Change your oil more often, and use the blue can from Hyundai is my recommendation. Great construction and proper bypass rating.

 

[UncleDave]

Nothing anyone can do about particles that small- not even sure a centrifuge can pull that out.

When they agglomerate and grow to between 1 and 10 microns they do their worst and can be filtered out with a bypass.

a particle count, as well as total solids %, gives you a good idea what floating around in your oil.

Realistically a moderately long OCI between 7 and 10K is probably the best bet.

UD

 

[oil_film_movies]

Yep, agglomeration and flocculation are the only hope to get'em caught in a Fram Ultra or bypass filter. An Ultra is said to be 80% at 5 microns, very good.
Clumps, once snagged in the filter, can break up as turbulent flow hits them, pushing them back into the engine. Not good news really.

 

[wemay]

IMO, the number one action one can take to combat these GDI owner concerns (a.soot, b.dilution, c.deposits) is shorten intervals. used oil analysis will help determine that, or stick to a max of 5K miles.

 

[BrianF]

Here's my questions: What percent soot are you getting per oil change index? What amounts to soot loading?

 

[UG_Passat]

Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by UG_Passat
Diesels have to deal with more soot loading than GDI.

It's not the number of particles that makes it abrasive, but the size of particles. Diesels have to worry about soot loading as it can increase the viscosity index of the oil.

Diesels have used paper filters for along time, and they don't have issues with soot related wear. It's more in the oil additives than anything else.

Diesel soot and GDI soot are not the same thing, similar yes, but the same that's a hard no.


It's carbon particles from the incomplete combustion of the fuel-air mixture.

Where in the Dexos 1 Gen 2 does it address GDI soot, as part of its certification?

 

[rsalan]

Originally Posted by UG_Passat
Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by UG_Passat
Diesels have to deal with more soot loading than GDI.

It's not the number of particles that makes it abrasive, but the size of particles. Diesels have to worry about soot loading as it can increase the viscosity index of the oil.

Diesels have used paper filters for along time, and they don't have issues with soot related wear. It's more in the oil additives than anything else.

Diesel soot and GDI soot are not the same thing, similar yes, but the same that's a hard no.


It's carbon particles from the incomplete combustion of the fuel-air mixture.

Where in the Dexos 1 Gen 2 does it address GDI soot, as part of its certification?


Maybe using a Dexos 2 oil is better if soot is your concern?

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted by UG_Passat
Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by UG_Passat
Diesels have to deal with more soot loading than GDI.

It's not the number of particles that makes it abrasive, but the size of particles. Diesels have to worry about soot loading as it can increase the viscosity index of the oil.

Diesels have used paper filters for along time, and they don't have issues with soot related wear. It's more in the oil additives than anything else.

Diesel soot and GDI soot are not the same thing, similar yes, but the same that's a hard no.


It's carbon particles from the incomplete combustion of the fuel-air mixture.

Where in the Dexos 1 Gen 2 does it address GDI soot, as part of its certification?


Using a Dexos 1 Gen 2 oil will help in the sense it will reduce the chances of increased wear over a normal SN spec oil and help extend the life of the engine past any wear caused by abrasive particles because it's a GDI. One offsetting the wear of the other if it occurs.

If you compare the difference in wear protection between D1G2 oils and SN only rated oils (which isn't many today), there is a big difference. Also supposedly there is a big fuel economy increase gain with D1G2 oils as shown so that means less fuel squirted into the cylinders which also helps with keeping soot lower as well.

 

[benjy]

just another issue along with DI carboning!! thats why manufacturers are researching using both types of injection, a few already do!! like watery thinner oils manufacturers are pushed for more mpg's but when issues arise out of warranty you are the one that pays $$$$$ + manufacturers like that!!!

 

[Eddie]

I wonder if we are over thinking this with engines built after ~ 2015? I use Dex1G2 synthetic oil as recommended and change it as manufacture recommended. I sell my vehicles at ~ 125,000 miles running like new. Ed

 

[Kjmack]

When I used the lub. tool and put in the vw 502 with A3/B4 spec. It pretty much looked like a crap oil , if I did it correctly.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted by Eddie
I wonder if we are over thinking this with engines built after ~ 2015? I use Dex1G2 synthetic oil as recommended and change it as manufacture recommended. I sell my vehicles at ~ 125,000 miles running like new. Ed



i often do as well.

 

[Propflux01]

5k intervals with Mobil 1 5w30. Looks and smells the same as any other oil I've drained.

 

[ChrisD46]

*Looks like a D1/Gen 2 5W30 with an OCI of less than <5K miles is the best I can do (already doing this) ...