Which temp do you prepose?
GC 0w30 over M1 5w30?
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Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Also GC is a bit lighter at start-up when the temps drop below 10C.
Not it is not. M1 is thinner at all temps that can be demonstrated.
I substantiated my statement (Widman Viscosity Chart) please substantiate yours.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Also GC is a bit lighter at start-up when the temps drop below 10C.
Not it is not. M1 is thinner at all temps that can be demonstrated.
I substantiated my statement (Widman Viscosity Chart) please substantiate yours.
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Not it is not. M1 is thinner at all temps that can be demonstrated.
Unfortunately this would include 100C, which is an issue for many.
Not it is not. M1 is thinner at all temps that can be demonstrated.
Unfortunately this would include 100C, which is an issue for many.
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Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Also GC is a bit lighter at start-up when the temps drop below 10C.
Not it is not. M1 is thinner at all temps that can be demonstrated.
I substantiated my statement (Widman Viscosity Chart) please substantiate yours.
Wideman is not a direct lab measurement; though the graphs are fun to look at - Weeee! How can you perform the extrapolation without 40deg C vis which is NOT provided by Castrol BP in the data sheet. Did you find the 40c number somewhere else?
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Also GC is a bit lighter at start-up when the temps drop below 10C.
Not it is not. M1 is thinner at all temps that can be demonstrated.
I substantiated my statement (Widman Viscosity Chart) please substantiate yours.
Wideman is not a direct lab measurement; though the graphs are fun to look at - Weeee! How can you perform the extrapolation without 40deg C vis which is NOT provided by Castrol BP in the data sheet. Did you find the 40c number somewhere else?
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Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Did you find the 40c number somewhere else?
It's 72 mm2/s at 40 deg C:
http://datasheets.bp.com/bpglis/lubtds.n...FB?OpenDocument
Did you find the 40c number somewhere else?
It's 72 mm2/s at 40 deg C:
http://datasheets.bp.com/bpglis/lubtds.n...FB?OpenDocument
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Not it is not. M1 is thinner at all temps that can be demonstrated.
How do you demonstrate what actually happens at say -30 deg C?
Widman's tool is nice, but it is an oversimplification which can not be taken for a fact. He even puts a disclaimer right below his chart:
Certain multigrade oils with pour point depresants may have different curves below 0° C.
He's basically saying that this graph is a shot in the dark below 0 deg C, and isn't this the most important area where aspects of 0w-XX oils come into play?
Not it is not. M1 is thinner at all temps that can be demonstrated.
How do you demonstrate what actually happens at say -30 deg C?
Widman's tool is nice, but it is an oversimplification which can not be taken for a fact. He even puts a disclaimer right below his chart:
Certain multigrade oils with pour point depresants may have different curves below 0° C.
He's basically saying that this graph is a shot in the dark below 0 deg C, and isn't this the most important area where aspects of 0w-XX oils come into play?
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Did you find the 40c number somewhere else?
It's 72 mm2/s at 40 deg C:
http://datasheets.bp.com/bpglis/lubtds.n...FB?OpenDocument
Would really question (doubt) if this SLX is the same stuff sold in US as Syntec. The spec grav is different. Given the high 40c vis, this oil will not provide better (typical > -10F) cold start/warmup viscosity performance than M1 5-30 or 0w30 or EDGE 10w30 or PYB 5w30 for that matter. Anything other than redline have a low apparent vis of say 11cSt a vi over 165 and a mid hths of 3.2-3.5 or so?
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Did you find the 40c number somewhere else?
It's 72 mm2/s at 40 deg C:
http://datasheets.bp.com/bpglis/lubtds.n...FB?OpenDocument
Would really question (doubt) if this SLX is the same stuff sold in US as Syntec. The spec grav is different. Given the high 40c vis, this oil will not provide better (typical > -10F) cold start/warmup viscosity performance than M1 5-30 or 0w30 or EDGE 10w30 or PYB 5w30 for that matter. Anything other than redline have a low apparent vis of say 11cSt a vi over 165 and a mid hths of 3.2-3.5 or so?
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Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Not it is not. M1 is thinner at all temps that can be demonstrated.
How do you demonstrate what actually happens at say -30 deg C?
That's my point.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
He's basically saying that this graph is a shot in the dark below 0 deg C, and isn't this the most important area where aspects of 0w-XX oils come into play?
I'm pretty sure, even without the aid of a calculator, I can tell you which oil is thicker or thinner at "start-up" ...below freezing.
Mobil 1 5w30 is FOR SURE thinner as far down as you want to go.
Since everyone knows this stuff better than me, please tell me at what temp the viscs cross?
CHATERHAM, do you have any data to share at all?
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Not it is not. M1 is thinner at all temps that can be demonstrated.
How do you demonstrate what actually happens at say -30 deg C?
That's my point.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
He's basically saying that this graph is a shot in the dark below 0 deg C, and isn't this the most important area where aspects of 0w-XX oils come into play?
I'm pretty sure, even without the aid of a calculator, I can tell you which oil is thicker or thinner at "start-up" ...below freezing.
Mobil 1 5w30 is FOR SURE thinner as far down as you want to go.
Since everyone knows this stuff better than me, please tell me at what temp the viscs cross?
CHATERHAM, do you have any data to share at all?
just for your information guys, today I went at Canadian Tire and bought 12 qts of GC.
On my next oil change, I'll put GC in the crankcase and followed by an UOA!
Can't wait to put that in my car!
On my next oil change, I'll put GC in the crankcase and followed by an UOA!
Can't wait to put that in my car!
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Since everyone knows this stuff better than me, please tell me at what temp the viscs cross?
Not sure if this was directed at me or not, but since you replied to my thread, I never claimed to "know this stuff better" than you. All I'm saying is there is no proof one way or the other so you would actually have to experiment to find out.
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Mobil 1 5w30 is FOR SURE thinner as far down as you want to go.
How can you say that if you haven't tried to go down as far as possible?
Again it's one of those threads where you ask others to provide proof but you won't offer any proof of your own to the contrary.
Since everyone knows this stuff better than me, please tell me at what temp the viscs cross?
Not sure if this was directed at me or not, but since you replied to my thread, I never claimed to "know this stuff better" than you. All I'm saying is there is no proof one way or the other so you would actually have to experiment to find out.
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Mobil 1 5w30 is FOR SURE thinner as far down as you want to go.
How can you say that if you haven't tried to go down as far as possible?
Again it's one of those threads where you ask others to provide proof but you won't offer any proof of your own to the contrary.
So, your assertion is that Mobil 1 5w30 is thicker than GC, right?
At what temp do you propose that is true, as I continue to ask.
My data shows Mobil 1 to be 100 to 1000 cSt THINNER than GC at temps below freezing.
Does anyone have a scientific analysis that contradicts that?
This thread is a disappointment to the forum itself, considering the VOLUME of posts the members here have generated. It really speaks to the integrity of the "answers" this forum offers.
At what temp do you propose that is true, as I continue to ask.
My data shows Mobil 1 to be 100 to 1000 cSt THINNER than GC at temps below freezing.
Does anyone have a scientific analysis that contradicts that?
This thread is a disappointment to the forum itself, considering the VOLUME of posts the members here have generated. It really speaks to the integrity of the "answers" this forum offers.
Audi, don't speak bad of BITOG so quickly.
M1 5w30 64.80 cSt@40C 11.30 cSt@100C
GC 0w30 66.80 cSt@40C 12.10 cSt@100C
And of course we can't go by any graphs that show GC crossing under M1 5w30 if that point is under 0 degrees C. When we get down there, we gotta start talking about CCS tests rather than viscosity
M1 5w30 64.80 cSt@40C 11.30 cSt@100C
GC 0w30 66.80 cSt@40C 12.10 cSt@100C
And of course we can't go by any graphs that show GC crossing under M1 5w30 if that point is under 0 degrees C. When we get down there, we gotta start talking about CCS tests rather than viscosity
THAT is the assertion that cannot be proven, not my claim based on an actual calculation.
5000cSt vs 6000cSt, place your bets.
The notion that we can't tell which oil is thinner at +30f is preposterous.
Oh, and I'm not speaking of BitOG badly.
5000cSt vs 6000cSt, place your bets.
The notion that we can't tell which oil is thinner at +30f is preposterous.
Oh, and I'm not speaking of BitOG badly.
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
So, your assertion is that Mobil 1 5w30 is thicker than GC, right?
My assertion is that there is no proof either way.
Quote:
At what temp do you propose that is true, as I continue to ask.
I don't know if it's true or not. I am just questioning it. How about actual (not calculated) data at -30C?
Quote:
My data shows Mobil 1 to be 100 to 1000 cSt THINNER than GC at temps below freezing.
What data? Can you share with us and provide the source of it?
Quote:
Does anyone have a scientific analysis that contradicts that?
Where is the scientific analysis that confirms it?
So, your assertion is that Mobil 1 5w30 is thicker than GC, right?
My assertion is that there is no proof either way.
Quote:
At what temp do you propose that is true, as I continue to ask.
I don't know if it's true or not. I am just questioning it. How about actual (not calculated) data at -30C?
Quote:
My data shows Mobil 1 to be 100 to 1000 cSt THINNER than GC at temps below freezing.
What data? Can you share with us and provide the source of it?
Quote:
Does anyone have a scientific analysis that contradicts that?
Where is the scientific analysis that confirms it?
I dont know the numbers on GC in cold temps but after many years of using it in a VQ30, I can say one thing... It cranks over like summertime in the cold Ontario winters. Ran 10W30 synthetic (years ago) one winter and it was definitely not as fast a crank as with the GC 0w30.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
So, your assertion is that Mobil 1 5w30 is thicker than GC, right?
My assertion is that there is no proof either way.
Quote:
At what temp do you propose that is true, as I continue to ask.
I don't know if it's true or not. I am just questioning it. How about actual (not calculated) data at -30C?
Quote:
My data shows Mobil 1 to be 100 to 1000 cSt THINNER than GC at temps below freezing.
What data? Can you share with us and provide the source of it?
Quote:
Does anyone have a scientific analysis that contradicts that?
Where is the scientific analysis that confirms it?
Like I said, for the numbers of posts you have made, this is a pathetic argument....for argument's sake.
You don't know how to read a product data sheet?
I suppose you can't tell 5w-20 from 20w-50 either.
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
So, your assertion is that Mobil 1 5w30 is thicker than GC, right?
My assertion is that there is no proof either way.
Quote:
At what temp do you propose that is true, as I continue to ask.
I don't know if it's true or not. I am just questioning it. How about actual (not calculated) data at -30C?
Quote:
My data shows Mobil 1 to be 100 to 1000 cSt THINNER than GC at temps below freezing.
What data? Can you share with us and provide the source of it?
Quote:
Does anyone have a scientific analysis that contradicts that?
Where is the scientific analysis that confirms it?
Like I said, for the numbers of posts you have made, this is a pathetic argument....for argument's sake.
You don't know how to read a product data sheet?
I suppose you can't tell 5w-20 from 20w-50 either.
Originally Posted By: sangyup81
Audi, don't speak bad of BITOG so quickly.
M1 5w30 64.80 cSt@40C 11.30 cSt@100C
GC 0w30 66.80 cSt@40C 12.10 cSt@100C
And of course we can't go by any graphs that show GC crossing under M1 5w30 if that point is under 0 degrees C. When we get down there, we gotta start talking about CCS tests rather than viscosity
Your stat's for GC might be more up to date than what I've used.
Anyway using your figures the cross over point is a pretty warm 20C (68F). I used the old stat's for Green GC which was 67-68 @ 40C and 12.2 @ 100C which gave the cross over at about 10C (50F).
Audi, don't speak bad of BITOG so quickly.
M1 5w30 64.80 cSt@40C 11.30 cSt@100C
GC 0w30 66.80 cSt@40C 12.10 cSt@100C
And of course we can't go by any graphs that show GC crossing under M1 5w30 if that point is under 0 degrees C. When we get down there, we gotta start talking about CCS tests rather than viscosity
Your stat's for GC might be more up to date than what I've used.
Anyway using your figures the cross over point is a pretty warm 20C (68F). I used the old stat's for Green GC which was 67-68 @ 40C and 12.2 @ 100C which gave the cross over at about 10C (50F).
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
You don't know how to read a product data sheet?
Enlighten me. Where do I find viscosity at negative 30 deg C on a product sheet?
You don't know how to read a product data sheet?
Enlighten me. Where do I find viscosity at negative 30 deg C on a product sheet?
I have a flash player issue and had to do the calculations manually and I made a mistake. I think I had the data from M1 0w30 as well, which is why I like to have a scientific discussion and fact checking (or double-checking) verses spurious argument.
My apologies.
My apologies.
At freezing..
5w30 539.6
0w-30 539.7
5w30 539.6
0w-30 539.7
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