0W-20 and 0W-30 can be made entirely of petroleum.
GC 0W-30/ 1500 miles/Mazda RX-8
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Can you give some examples of mineral 0w-30 oils?
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Can you give some examples of mineral 0w-30 oils?
Not many are made, but it can be done. Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30 is actually a 0W-30, and the 5W-20 is actually a 0W-20. They list the CCS for both of them at -35, when most 5W oils are listed at -30, and their numbers are -35 are both lower than the maximum allowed for a 0W oil. They do not list the Maximum Low Temperature Pumping Viscosity at -40, which is what 0W oils are tested at. Instead they show them at the standard 5W temp of -35, but both oils are low enough in viscosity at those temps that they should easily be below the maximum allowable of 60,000cP at -40. The 5W-20 is 9,700 and the 5W-30 is 14,800.
Can you give some examples of mineral 0w-30 oils?
Not many are made, but it can be done. Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30 is actually a 0W-30, and the 5W-20 is actually a 0W-20. They list the CCS for both of them at -35, when most 5W oils are listed at -30, and their numbers are -35 are both lower than the maximum allowed for a 0W oil. They do not list the Maximum Low Temperature Pumping Viscosity at -40, which is what 0W oils are tested at. Instead they show them at the standard 5W temp of -35, but both oils are low enough in viscosity at those temps that they should easily be below the maximum allowable of 60,000cP at -40. The 5W-20 is 9,700 and the 5W-30 is 14,800.
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30 is actually a 0W-30, and the 5W-20 is actually a 0W-20.
Oh, you mean synthetic group III, not mineral (group II) then? To me, group III is still synthetic.
We were saying that 0w-30 cannot be dino. Dino = group II in my book.
Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30 is actually a 0W-30, and the 5W-20 is actually a 0W-20.
Oh, you mean synthetic group III, not mineral (group II) then? To me, group III is still synthetic.
We were saying that 0w-30 cannot be dino. Dino = group II in my book.
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I too consider it a synthetic, but my point was that 0W can be made from petroleum.
But when I asked for examples, you gave me PP. 
And PP is made from petroleum 
OK, fair enough. Moving along...
Moving along...
Originally Posted By: Warstud
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Group III is fine, but to make a 5W-50 it's going to have a lot of viscosity index improvers in it, so it won't stay a 50 weight very long.
I thought that syn didn't have VII?
Pretty much all multigrade oils have at least some VII's in them.
I remember reading here that Group III base stocks can't be made above a certain viscosity, so if this oil is a 50 weight, then it's going to have a lot of VII's in it. Provided that what I read is true. Which I believe it is. Just don't ask me to find where I read it.
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Group III is fine, but to make a 5W-50 it's going to have a lot of viscosity index improvers in it, so it won't stay a 50 weight very long.
I thought that syn didn't have VII?
Pretty much all multigrade oils have at least some VII's in them.
I remember reading here that Group III base stocks can't be made above a certain viscosity, so if this oil is a 50 weight, then it's going to have a lot of VII's in it. Provided that what I read is true. Which I believe it is. Just don't ask me to find where I read it.
I would try M1 0W40 or Amsoil Series 3000 5W30 or Redline 0W40. Since you can not get a comple oil change on these with out some really crazy oil cooler line antics I would go with Redline! The ester based oils will hold up better then anything else since you can only get about 1/2 the total oil capity changed when you change oil. My second choice would be M1 0W40 since it is easy to get at Walmart and parts stores and Amsoil would be my last choice mostly due to their marketing and lack of availability!
So let me get this straight:
1)Synthetics..0w30/5w30/10w30..Are 30 weight oils with no VII's.
So what makes them a 0w/5w/10w then? But a 5w40 syn does have VII's becuase of the large spread.
2)Mineral..5w30 is a 5 weight with added VII's to keep it from thickening past a 30 weight when cold.
1)Synthetics..0w30/5w30/10w30..Are 30 weight oils with no VII's.
So what makes them a 0w/5w/10w then? But a 5w40 syn does have VII's becuase of the large spread.
2)Mineral..5w30 is a 5 weight with added VII's to keep it from thickening past a 30 weight when cold.
Originally Posted By: Warstud
So let me get this straight:
1)Synthetics..0w30/5w30/10w30..Are 30 weight oils with no VII's.
So what makes them a 0w/5w/10w then?
They have those cold flow properties naturally.
Think about it: VII means viscosity index improver. For some grades, synthetics have a good enough viscosity index on their own, so they don't need to be improved.
So let me get this straight:
1)Synthetics..0w30/5w30/10w30..Are 30 weight oils with no VII's.
So what makes them a 0w/5w/10w then?
They have those cold flow properties naturally.
Think about it: VII means viscosity index improver. For some grades, synthetics have a good enough viscosity index on their own, so they don't need to be improved.
The rotaries inject the oil into the combustion chamber, so the oils have to burn cleanly. Rotaries also tend to get more fuel in the oil than other engines, especially with lot of short trips. This is why conventional oil and frequent oil changes are recommended.
I like the advice from these guys who have been working on rotaries for a long time, and recommend conventional 20w50 (or 10w30 if it get's below freezing very often):
http://www.mazdatrix.com/faq/synthetc.htm
That, or get this oil that is made for rotaries (but you still can't do long OCIs):
http://www.idemitsu-usa.com/page_207.htm
http://www.mazdatrix.com/q-supply.htm
You definitely don't want to use Mobil 1, because they say this in their Product Data Sheet: "Mobil 1 is not recommended for 2-Cycle or aviation engines, unless specifically approved by the manufacturer.".
Here's an owners manual from Australia that uses a standard type oil chart, and it also says not to use synthetics or blends:
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?p=2749156
I like the advice from these guys who have been working on rotaries for a long time, and recommend conventional 20w50 (or 10w30 if it get's below freezing very often):
http://www.mazdatrix.com/faq/synthetc.htm
That, or get this oil that is made for rotaries (but you still can't do long OCIs):
http://www.idemitsu-usa.com/page_207.htm
http://www.mazdatrix.com/q-supply.htm
You definitely don't want to use Mobil 1, because they say this in their Product Data Sheet: "Mobil 1 is not recommended for 2-Cycle or aviation engines, unless specifically approved by the manufacturer.".
Here's an owners manual from Australia that uses a standard type oil chart, and it also says not to use synthetics or blends:
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?p=2749156
Yeah unfortunately a heavier weight oil is not the answer as it is harder to inject and does not flow as well. A better flowing oil is more important than just a higher viscosity oil. There is no one answer, you have to find a common ground. I did a freeze test with 20W-50 and 0W-40 and even at 30 degrees F the results were frightening to me. Mostly the numbers on the bottles are more for marketing so I really don't pay much attention to them.
I am premixing with a SOHN adapter (separate reservoir that inject premix instead of engine oil)so I just choose the best engine oil based on testing, etc.
I am premixing with a SOHN adapter (separate reservoir that inject premix instead of engine oil)so I just choose the best engine oil based on testing, etc.
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