It happens here, too. It spikes a bit, then falls again a few days later, then falls back below where it was in the first place, or does the exact opposite.
Gas up 45 cents a gallon... all in one jump.
- Thread starter mrsilv04
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: Astro14
The Illinois market is local, and supply is severely constrained by refinery capacity, as well as oxygenation requirements.
Those two factors cause gasoline prices to fluctuate without correlation to either oil prices or other U.S. Market areas...
Also, add in that these markets like to use any little burp in the system as an excuse to raise prices and pad their profits, it's no wonder we see such huge price jumps in such a short period of time...
The Illinois market is local, and supply is severely constrained by refinery capacity, as well as oxygenation requirements.
Those two factors cause gasoline prices to fluctuate without correlation to either oil prices or other U.S. Market areas...
Also, add in that these markets like to use any little burp in the system as an excuse to raise prices and pad their profits, it's no wonder we see such huge price jumps in such a short period of time...
Originally Posted By: Sunnyinhollister
Originally Posted By: Rolla07
It could be worse...
Yup, it could be what we pay out here in kalifornia........
Or in Europe.
Currently in Finland we have:
- 95E10 (95 RON with 10% ethanol) = 1.429 eur/liter (6.03 dollars/US gallon)
- 98E5 (98 RON with 5% ethanol) = 1.499 eur/liter (6.33 dollars/US gallon)
- Diesel = 1.229 eur/liter (5.19 dollars/US gallon)
Luckily the gasoline is sold here in liters, so the unit price stays at more "comfortable" level...
Originally Posted By: Rolla07
It could be worse...
Yup, it could be what we pay out here in kalifornia........
Or in Europe.
Currently in Finland we have:
- 95E10 (95 RON with 10% ethanol) = 1.429 eur/liter (6.03 dollars/US gallon)
- 98E5 (98 RON with 5% ethanol) = 1.499 eur/liter (6.33 dollars/US gallon)
- Diesel = 1.229 eur/liter (5.19 dollars/US gallon)
Luckily the gasoline is sold here in liters, so the unit price stays at more "comfortable" level...
Last edited:
What is minimum wage in Finland? Diesel is definitely cheaper. I was in Eastern Europe about 5 years ago and gasoline was about $8 per gallon IIRC. Almost everybody there had diesel econboxes.
Fuel prices are something Ill never understand. Fuel here is more pricey than say Kentucky or Tennessee, but we grow a lot of corn here and there is an ethanol plant about 15 miles away.. I assume I am supposed to think ethanol will bring fuel costs down?
*I can think of 1 station locally that sells E85. If I had a truck that could run it, I would give it a try no doubt though.
Fuel prices are something Ill never understand. Fuel here is more pricey than say Kentucky or Tennessee, but we grow a lot of corn here and there is an ethanol plant about 15 miles away.. I assume I am supposed to think ethanol will bring fuel costs down?
*I can think of 1 station locally that sells E85. If I had a truck that could run it, I would give it a try no doubt though.
Last edited:
Not hardly, we are in the middle of Corn Country. IL is the Prairie State. We just happen to have a town on Lake Michigan that overshadows the vast majority of the state.
Chicago .ne. Illinois.
Originally Posted By: sleddriver
Originally Posted By: Astro14
The Illinois market is local, and supply is severely constrained by refinery capacity, as well as oxygenation requirements.
Those two factors cause gasoline prices to fluctuate without correlation to either oil prices or other U.S. Market areas...
+1
Yep....you're in Ill. after all. On the other hand, you can probably buy 100% gas whereas I can't.
Chicago .ne. Illinois.
Originally Posted By: sleddriver
Originally Posted By: Astro14
The Illinois market is local, and supply is severely constrained by refinery capacity, as well as oxygenation requirements.
Those two factors cause gasoline prices to fluctuate without correlation to either oil prices or other U.S. Market areas...
+1
Yep....you're in Ill. after all. On the other hand, you can probably buy 100% gas whereas I can't.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Vikas
I think most of you would like fuel prices controlled by the government and the fuel supply rationed.
Really? I think not!!
Why does everybody in this site exaggerate everything? I don't recall anyone advocating gov price controls on anything. What I support is to let prices be set 100% by supply and demand, instead of having speculators injecting fears into the market, jacking up prices on the pretense of shortages, when there are no shortages. Whenever a refinery goes down, other nearby refineries bump up production to make up for the supply that's lost by the refinery that's down. There's no need to jack up prices other than for padding profits...
I think most of you would like fuel prices controlled by the government and the fuel supply rationed.
Really? I think not!!
Why does everybody in this site exaggerate everything? I don't recall anyone advocating gov price controls on anything. What I support is to let prices be set 100% by supply and demand, instead of having speculators injecting fears into the market, jacking up prices on the pretense of shortages, when there are no shortages. Whenever a refinery goes down, other nearby refineries bump up production to make up for the supply that's lost by the refinery that's down. There's no need to jack up prices other than for padding profits...
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Even though I don't like it, speculators *are* the part of the market. Why do you want government to come in and prohibit speculators?
He doesn't want Gov. Control
He doesn't want prices to vary much
He wants a free market
But he doesn't want a free market.
He doesn't know how the Stock and commodity markets work.
In a Free market you can't have your cake and eat it too. You are either free to buy and sell or you are not.
Even though I don't like it, speculators *are* the part of the market. Why do you want government to come in and prohibit speculators?
He doesn't want Gov. Control
He doesn't want prices to vary much
He wants a free market
But he doesn't want a free market.
He doesn't know how the Stock and commodity markets work.
In a Free market you can't have your cake and eat it too. You are either free to buy and sell or you are not.
Originally Posted By: grampi
Why does everybody in this site exaggerate everything? I don't recall anyone advocating gov price controls on anything. What I support is to let prices be set 100% by supply and demand, instead of having speculators injecting fears into the market, jacking up prices on the pretense of shortages, when there are no shortages.
When oil companies are free to set their prices where they like, that is supply and demand. That's basic economics. You're willing to pay the higher price. They tack on 45 cents a gallon, your demand isn't falling. And we've already been through the shortages business. Shortages are alleviated by jacking the heck out of prices.
And, if I'm an oil company shareholder, I want those profits padded. I don't want to see shortages, either. And, those shortages can be prevented by some real profit padding.
Why does everybody in this site exaggerate everything? I don't recall anyone advocating gov price controls on anything. What I support is to let prices be set 100% by supply and demand, instead of having speculators injecting fears into the market, jacking up prices on the pretense of shortages, when there are no shortages.
When oil companies are free to set their prices where they like, that is supply and demand. That's basic economics. You're willing to pay the higher price. They tack on 45 cents a gallon, your demand isn't falling. And we've already been through the shortages business. Shortages are alleviated by jacking the heck out of prices.
And, if I'm an oil company shareholder, I want those profits padded. I don't want to see shortages, either. And, those shortages can be prevented by some real profit padding.
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Even though I don't like it, speculators *are* the part of the market. Why do you want government to come in and prohibit speculators?
Because they're an unnecessary part of the market. Though they can cause prices to go up or down, most of the time they're a cause for unnecessarily higher prices...
Even though I don't like it, speculators *are* the part of the market. Why do you want government to come in and prohibit speculators?
Because they're an unnecessary part of the market. Though they can cause prices to go up or down, most of the time they're a cause for unnecessarily higher prices...
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: grampi
Why does everybody in this site exaggerate everything? I don't recall anyone advocating gov price controls on anything. What I support is to let prices be set 100% by supply and demand, instead of having speculators injecting fears into the market, jacking up prices on the pretense of shortages, when there are no shortages.
When oil companies are free to set their prices where they like, that is supply and demand. That's basic economics. You're willing to pay the higher price. They tack on 45 cents a gallon, your demand isn't falling. And we've already been through the shortages business. Shortages are alleviated by jacking the heck out of prices.
And, if I'm an oil company shareholder, I want those profits padded. I don't want to see shortages, either. And, those shortages can be prevented by some real profit padding.
It's a little different in a cartel market. The fact that there really aren't any viable alternatives to fossil fuels allows the oil industry to keep prices higher than what they would be if they actually had some competition in the market. Shortages are not avoided by jacking up prices, at least not at the current prices. They're avoided by other refineries bumping up their production. When gas goes from $2.25 to $2.65, nobody's going to use less, they're just paying more. If gas is priced at $3.50 and then goes to $4.50, that's when you'll see people using less.
Originally Posted By: grampi
Why does everybody in this site exaggerate everything? I don't recall anyone advocating gov price controls on anything. What I support is to let prices be set 100% by supply and demand, instead of having speculators injecting fears into the market, jacking up prices on the pretense of shortages, when there are no shortages.
When oil companies are free to set their prices where they like, that is supply and demand. That's basic economics. You're willing to pay the higher price. They tack on 45 cents a gallon, your demand isn't falling. And we've already been through the shortages business. Shortages are alleviated by jacking the heck out of prices.
And, if I'm an oil company shareholder, I want those profits padded. I don't want to see shortages, either. And, those shortages can be prevented by some real profit padding.
It's a little different in a cartel market. The fact that there really aren't any viable alternatives to fossil fuels allows the oil industry to keep prices higher than what they would be if they actually had some competition in the market. Shortages are not avoided by jacking up prices, at least not at the current prices. They're avoided by other refineries bumping up their production. When gas goes from $2.25 to $2.65, nobody's going to use less, they're just paying more. If gas is priced at $3.50 and then goes to $4.50, that's when you'll see people using less.
Quote:
When gas goes from $2.25 to $2.65, nobody's going to use less, they're just paying more. If gas is priced at $3.50 and then goes to $4.50, that's when you'll see people using less.
Be careful what you wish for. Let us have governmetn ban the speculator and in return it adds $2 as a "speculator prohibition tax" to the price of the gas.
That way, you get nice and steady gas prices plus people using less gas.
Win, win, won't you agree with me?
When gas goes from $2.25 to $2.65, nobody's going to use less, they're just paying more. If gas is priced at $3.50 and then goes to $4.50, that's when you'll see people using less.
Be careful what you wish for. Let us have governmetn ban the speculator and in return it adds $2 as a "speculator prohibition tax" to the price of the gas.
That way, you get nice and steady gas prices plus people using less gas.
Win, win, won't you agree with me?
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Be careful what you wish for. Let us have government ban the speculator and in return it adds $2 as a "speculator prohibition tax" to the price of the gas.
Except you can not ban "speculation" unless you dictate that gasoline can not be sold in the open market. And that is just not possible when it exists as a commodity fort the rest of the world.
Some way you have to set the price and that is done by market forces. It is set on the "spot market" when only a small percentage of the commodity is bought and sold. This has very very little to do with "speculation". Speculation is in the form of long and short contracts. And don't forget there are both winners and losers here, meaning over the long term it won't affect the price of a product. In fact it can be shown that it actually (over the long term) smooths out the peaks and valleys.
And if you want to get rid of "speculation" you would have to eliminate oil company stocks (which can not be done unless the Government bought the companies (like Brazil..how did that work out?). By Speculating that the price will go up people invest in oil companies (in their IRA's for instance). Ultimately this "can" lead to lower prices.
If every gallon of product needed to be bought and sold to dealers and retailers...it would be grossly inefficient. Ultimately it would lead dealers to set up a simpler system. The system in place is there bc it works.
Before folks continue to rail against the system they should make an effort to understand how it works..that's unlikely. I would suggest this article. It is explained very very well.
http://web.mit.edu/ceepr/www/publications/workingpapers/2013-006.pdf
And note is is published by M.I.T. Some here might have heard it.
If you read the paper and understand it kind of shows the pathetic nature of some of the comments.
Be careful what you wish for. Let us have government ban the speculator and in return it adds $2 as a "speculator prohibition tax" to the price of the gas.
Except you can not ban "speculation" unless you dictate that gasoline can not be sold in the open market. And that is just not possible when it exists as a commodity fort the rest of the world.
Some way you have to set the price and that is done by market forces. It is set on the "spot market" when only a small percentage of the commodity is bought and sold. This has very very little to do with "speculation". Speculation is in the form of long and short contracts. And don't forget there are both winners and losers here, meaning over the long term it won't affect the price of a product. In fact it can be shown that it actually (over the long term) smooths out the peaks and valleys.
And if you want to get rid of "speculation" you would have to eliminate oil company stocks (which can not be done unless the Government bought the companies (like Brazil..how did that work out?). By Speculating that the price will go up people invest in oil companies (in their IRA's for instance). Ultimately this "can" lead to lower prices.
If every gallon of product needed to be bought and sold to dealers and retailers...it would be grossly inefficient. Ultimately it would lead dealers to set up a simpler system. The system in place is there bc it works.
Before folks continue to rail against the system they should make an effort to understand how it works..that's unlikely. I would suggest this article. It is explained very very well.
http://web.mit.edu/ceepr/www/publications/workingpapers/2013-006.pdf
And note is is published by M.I.T. Some here might have heard it.
If you read the paper and understand it kind of shows the pathetic nature of some of the comments.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: grampi
It's a little different in a cartel market. The fact that there really aren't any viable alternatives to fossil fuels allows the oil industry to keep prices higher than what they would be if they actually had some competition in the market.
There still is competition between oil companies, whether or not you accept or believe that. Even OPEC doesn't have one monolithic policy at all times. As for potential shortages, so, now you're saying you'd like to see the gas prices go way higher when there are supply issues, rather than a little bit? In any event, markets react to changes in supply and demand, even small changes.
And never say there aren't alternatives. There are, depending upon how committed one is to finding and living with those alternatives. Nothing, of course, is easier than simply complaining, and we all like to complain about the oil companies. Doing something concrete isn't an easy, painless answer.
Look how often I grouse about retail prices of oil in Canada. So, I quit buying oil at the retail level. The alternatives, obviously, have tradeoffs, but one has to decide whether or not to live with them. My tradeoffs include buying a bit more "eccentric" of an oil, along with buying it in fairly large quantities.
It's a little different in a cartel market. The fact that there really aren't any viable alternatives to fossil fuels allows the oil industry to keep prices higher than what they would be if they actually had some competition in the market.
There still is competition between oil companies, whether or not you accept or believe that. Even OPEC doesn't have one monolithic policy at all times. As for potential shortages, so, now you're saying you'd like to see the gas prices go way higher when there are supply issues, rather than a little bit? In any event, markets react to changes in supply and demand, even small changes.
And never say there aren't alternatives. There are, depending upon how committed one is to finding and living with those alternatives. Nothing, of course, is easier than simply complaining, and we all like to complain about the oil companies. Doing something concrete isn't an easy, painless answer.
Look how often I grouse about retail prices of oil in Canada. So, I quit buying oil at the retail level. The alternatives, obviously, have tradeoffs, but one has to decide whether or not to live with them. My tradeoffs include buying a bit more "eccentric" of an oil, along with buying it in fairly large quantities.
Look at it from a couple perspectives. We don't just rely on a single refinery in either nation. Secondly, given the cost of a refinery, it should be no surprised that any local market (or even a fairly wide region) would be served by only one of them.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: grampi
It's a little different in a cartel market. The fact that there really aren't any viable alternatives to fossil fuels allows the oil industry to keep prices higher than what they would be if they actually had some competition in the market.
There still is competition between oil companies, whether or not you accept or believe that. Even OPEC doesn't have one monolithic policy at all times. As for potential shortages, so, now you're saying you'd like to see the gas prices go way higher when there are supply issues, rather than a little bit? In any event, markets react to changes in supply and demand, even small changes.
And never say there aren't alternatives. There are, depending upon how committed one is to finding and living with those alternatives. Nothing, of course, is easier than simply complaining, and we all like to complain about the oil companies. Doing something concrete isn't an easy, painless answer.
Look how often I grouse about retail prices of oil in Canada. So, I quit buying oil at the retail level. The alternatives, obviously, have tradeoffs, but one has to decide whether or not to live with them. My tradeoffs include buying a bit more "eccentric" of an oil, along with buying it in fairly large quantities.
There is competition between oil companies, but there is no competition to the fossil fuel market, and until there is, I'm afraid consumers will be at the mercy of the industry. If alternatives were as readily available as fossil fuels are and were priced competitively, you'd see gas prices stabilize probably right around where there are now...there wouldn't be any more price jacking to $3-$4 a gallon...and either you aren't very good at reading between the lines, or you just like exaggerating everything to be sarcastic...there's never any need for $100+ crude or $4+ gas...the world is awash in crude oil and there are no shortages...the only shortages we have is shortages of refineries....we should not be having to rely on one refinery to serve an entire area...we need gov restrictions to be relaxed so more refineries can be built...
Originally Posted By: grampi
It's a little different in a cartel market. The fact that there really aren't any viable alternatives to fossil fuels allows the oil industry to keep prices higher than what they would be if they actually had some competition in the market.
There still is competition between oil companies, whether or not you accept or believe that. Even OPEC doesn't have one monolithic policy at all times. As for potential shortages, so, now you're saying you'd like to see the gas prices go way higher when there are supply issues, rather than a little bit? In any event, markets react to changes in supply and demand, even small changes.
And never say there aren't alternatives. There are, depending upon how committed one is to finding and living with those alternatives. Nothing, of course, is easier than simply complaining, and we all like to complain about the oil companies. Doing something concrete isn't an easy, painless answer.
Look how often I grouse about retail prices of oil in Canada. So, I quit buying oil at the retail level. The alternatives, obviously, have tradeoffs, but one has to decide whether or not to live with them. My tradeoffs include buying a bit more "eccentric" of an oil, along with buying it in fairly large quantities.
There is competition between oil companies, but there is no competition to the fossil fuel market, and until there is, I'm afraid consumers will be at the mercy of the industry. If alternatives were as readily available as fossil fuels are and were priced competitively, you'd see gas prices stabilize probably right around where there are now...there wouldn't be any more price jacking to $3-$4 a gallon...and either you aren't very good at reading between the lines, or you just like exaggerating everything to be sarcastic...there's never any need for $100+ crude or $4+ gas...the world is awash in crude oil and there are no shortages...the only shortages we have is shortages of refineries....we should not be having to rely on one refinery to serve an entire area...we need gov restrictions to be relaxed so more refineries can be built...
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Garak
Look at it from a couple perspectives. We don't just rely on a single refinery in either nation. Secondly, given the cost of a refinery, it should be no surprised that any local market (or even a fairly wide region) would be served by only one of them.
Oil companies certainly make enough profit to build more refineries...the reason they don't is because of restrictions the gov puts on them...
Look at it from a couple perspectives. We don't just rely on a single refinery in either nation. Secondly, given the cost of a refinery, it should be no surprised that any local market (or even a fairly wide region) would be served by only one of them.
Oil companies certainly make enough profit to build more refineries...the reason they don't is because of restrictions the gov puts on them...
With respect to refineries, the oil companies are obviously able to supply us 99% of the time with the product we need. Therefore, they really don't need more refineries, and that would be a wasted capital investment. It might be "interesting" if there were refineries in all large cities, or based upon population distribution, but I don't think we should be blaming the government for this. I don't doubt for a second that the government would make it very difficult, but, like I said, we're not struggling with fuel delivery.
Customers are always at the mercy of an industry. As for the fossil fuel market, it's even less monolithic if you look at the big picture. There is natural gas, LPG, diesel, coal, and so forth. It's not just gasoline. And yes, there isn't much competition to the fossil fuel market, but that speaks to the success of fossil fuels. There isn't much competition to the food market, either, but that's because I can only eat food.
Unfortunately, yes, there are needs at times for $100 plus oil and more expensive gasoline. The world may be awash in oil as you say. But, shortages or even supply hiccups aren't just based upon how much oil is in the world. If Saudi Arabia shuts down their wells, prices will go up. They're awash with oil, too, but if we can't access it, it might as well not be there. And yes, there are plenty of other suppliers, but they're not online, with a man waiting at the faucet, either, ready to fill a tanker.
Look at what happens to diesel every year up here. In the winter, the price goes up because of home heating demand. In the summer, it drops way back down because of the lack of home heating demand.
Customers are always at the mercy of an industry. As for the fossil fuel market, it's even less monolithic if you look at the big picture. There is natural gas, LPG, diesel, coal, and so forth. It's not just gasoline. And yes, there isn't much competition to the fossil fuel market, but that speaks to the success of fossil fuels. There isn't much competition to the food market, either, but that's because I can only eat food.
Unfortunately, yes, there are needs at times for $100 plus oil and more expensive gasoline. The world may be awash in oil as you say. But, shortages or even supply hiccups aren't just based upon how much oil is in the world. If Saudi Arabia shuts down their wells, prices will go up. They're awash with oil, too, but if we can't access it, it might as well not be there. And yes, there are plenty of other suppliers, but they're not online, with a man waiting at the faucet, either, ready to fill a tanker.
Look at what happens to diesel every year up here. In the winter, the price goes up because of home heating demand. In the summer, it drops way back down because of the lack of home heating demand.
- Status
Similar threads
