Gas prices up $1 a gallon just this spring
- Thread starter grampi
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Originally Posted By: grampi
If all [censored] would break loose if crude products were removed from the commodities market, then how did the industry survive, no thrive for almost 100 years BEFORE it was put on the commodities market? Your "theory" is full of holes...
This is a GREAT statement. Thank you grampi!
If all [censored] would break loose if crude products were removed from the commodities market, then how did the industry survive, no thrive for almost 100 years BEFORE it was put on the commodities market? Your "theory" is full of holes...
This is a GREAT statement. Thank you grampi!
Originally Posted By: grampi
If all [censored] would break loose if crude products were removed from the commodities market, then how did the industry survive, no thrive for almost 100 years BEFORE it was put on the commodities market? Your "theory" is full of holes...
grampi, I used to think like you until I started learning how to trade commodities. Traders buy the right to buy a product for some future date, (futures trading). Producers sell these futures to the highest bider. RBOB is the code for gasoline. Retailers who have enough market, buy futures up to the limit of their stores ability to sell it. As an example, here in NC we have a chain of party stores across the state, 26 stores, I think. The owner sits in his office in Raleigh and is computer linked to all his stores. He controls retail gas prices state wide for his stores. He actively trades futures continuously. He has a very sophisticated system. It's very likely that he largely controls the retail price of gas in the major metropolitan areas. That pretty much explains why local gas prices are ~$.20 lower then what is expected based on the national averages.
Futures trading tends to even out prices over time and limits the more extreme price swings that would otherwise take place.
I've been watching this for several months now. It's pretty amazing how it all works. Last Fri. RBOB for June delivery was $2.02, today it is $2.03. RBOB for July is currently $1.69. Up until this week our gas prices were well below the June prices, actually we were buying gas that had been contracted for 2-3 months ago . Currently, local prices are right at June RBOB + taxes + markup. Based on what I'm seeing, local prices should remain fairly stable through August, then start to taper off as the July gas comes to market.
This is true across the U.S. Someone is buying futures based on expected usage, wholesalers everywhere buy product for local delivery. That's how small operators get their product. Major markets have retailers like our guy. It's how markets work.
If all [censored] would break loose if crude products were removed from the commodities market, then how did the industry survive, no thrive for almost 100 years BEFORE it was put on the commodities market? Your "theory" is full of holes...
grampi, I used to think like you until I started learning how to trade commodities. Traders buy the right to buy a product for some future date, (futures trading). Producers sell these futures to the highest bider. RBOB is the code for gasoline. Retailers who have enough market, buy futures up to the limit of their stores ability to sell it. As an example, here in NC we have a chain of party stores across the state, 26 stores, I think. The owner sits in his office in Raleigh and is computer linked to all his stores. He controls retail gas prices state wide for his stores. He actively trades futures continuously. He has a very sophisticated system. It's very likely that he largely controls the retail price of gas in the major metropolitan areas. That pretty much explains why local gas prices are ~$.20 lower then what is expected based on the national averages.
Futures trading tends to even out prices over time and limits the more extreme price swings that would otherwise take place.
I've been watching this for several months now. It's pretty amazing how it all works. Last Fri. RBOB for June delivery was $2.02, today it is $2.03. RBOB for July is currently $1.69. Up until this week our gas prices were well below the June prices, actually we were buying gas that had been contracted for 2-3 months ago . Currently, local prices are right at June RBOB + taxes + markup. Based on what I'm seeing, local prices should remain fairly stable through August, then start to taper off as the July gas comes to market.
This is true across the U.S. Someone is buying futures based on expected usage, wholesalers everywhere buy product for local delivery. That's how small operators get their product. Major markets have retailers like our guy. It's how markets work.
Originally Posted By: Oldmoparguy1
Originally Posted By: grampi
If all [censored] would break loose if crude products were removed from the commodities market, then how did the industry survive, no thrive for almost 100 years BEFORE it was put on the commodities market? Your "theory" is full of holes...
grampi, I used to think like you until I started learning how to trade commodities. Traders buy the right to buy a product for some future date, (futures trading). Producers sell these futures to the highest bider. RBOB is the code for gasoline. Retailers who have enough market, buy futures up to the limit of their stores ability to sell it. As an example, here in NC we have a chain of party stores across the state, 26 stores, I think. The owner sits in his office in Raleigh and is computer linked to all his stores. He controls retail gas prices state wide for his stores. He actively trades futures continuously. He has a very sophisticated system. It's very likely that he largely controls the retail price of gas in the major metropolitan areas. That pretty much explains why local gas prices are ~$.20 lower then what is expected based on the national averages.
Futures trading tends to even out prices over time and limits the more extreme price swings that would otherwise take place.
I've been watching this for several months now. It's pretty amazing how it all works. Last Fri. RBOB for June delivery was $2.02, today it is $2.03. RBOB for July is currently $1.69. Up until this week our gas prices were well below the June prices, actually we were buying gas that had been contracted for 2-3 months ago . Currently, local prices are right at June RBOB + taxes + markup. Based on what I'm seeing, local prices should remain fairly stable through August, then start to taper off as the July gas comes to market.
This is true across the U.S. Someone is buying futures based on expected usage, wholesalers everywhere buy product for local delivery. That's how small operators get their product. Major markets have retailers like our guy. It's how markets work.
Price swings don't get much more extreme than what we've seen over the last 6 to 8 months...
Originally Posted By: grampi
If all [censored] would break loose if crude products were removed from the commodities market, then how did the industry survive, no thrive for almost 100 years BEFORE it was put on the commodities market? Your "theory" is full of holes...
grampi, I used to think like you until I started learning how to trade commodities. Traders buy the right to buy a product for some future date, (futures trading). Producers sell these futures to the highest bider. RBOB is the code for gasoline. Retailers who have enough market, buy futures up to the limit of their stores ability to sell it. As an example, here in NC we have a chain of party stores across the state, 26 stores, I think. The owner sits in his office in Raleigh and is computer linked to all his stores. He controls retail gas prices state wide for his stores. He actively trades futures continuously. He has a very sophisticated system. It's very likely that he largely controls the retail price of gas in the major metropolitan areas. That pretty much explains why local gas prices are ~$.20 lower then what is expected based on the national averages.
Futures trading tends to even out prices over time and limits the more extreme price swings that would otherwise take place.
I've been watching this for several months now. It's pretty amazing how it all works. Last Fri. RBOB for June delivery was $2.02, today it is $2.03. RBOB for July is currently $1.69. Up until this week our gas prices were well below the June prices, actually we were buying gas that had been contracted for 2-3 months ago . Currently, local prices are right at June RBOB + taxes + markup. Based on what I'm seeing, local prices should remain fairly stable through August, then start to taper off as the July gas comes to market.
This is true across the U.S. Someone is buying futures based on expected usage, wholesalers everywhere buy product for local delivery. That's how small operators get their product. Major markets have retailers like our guy. It's how markets work.
Price swings don't get much more extreme than what we've seen over the last 6 to 8 months...
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: totegoat
WMD's or oil??? You decide.
I don't know what this means...
WMD = weapons of mass destruction....equation is like "guns or butter"
Originally Posted By: totegoat
WMD's or oil??? You decide.
I don't know what this means...
WMD = weapons of mass destruction....equation is like "guns or butter"
Price in So Cal went down about 30-40 cents the last 2-3 weeks. What caused the price went up 50-60 cents 2-3 months ago and then went down 30-40 cents ? I don't know.
Even with 30-40 cents less the average price of regular in Orange County, CA is still about $3.70, about 80 cents to a dollar more than national average.
Even with 30-40 cents less the average price of regular in Orange County, CA is still about $3.70, about 80 cents to a dollar more than national average.
Originally Posted By: Oldmoparguy1
Futures trading tends to even out prices over time and limits the more extreme price swings that would otherwise take place.
You are wasting your time trying to teach someone who has a preconceived notion how things work..based on emotion. I am totally done here.... you carry on.
Futures trading tends to even out prices over time and limits the more extreme price swings that would otherwise take place.
You are wasting your time trying to teach someone who has a preconceived notion how things work..based on emotion. I am totally done here.... you carry on.
Unable to make an intelligent reply so just back out!
Originally Posted By: grampi
If all [censored] would break loose if crude products were removed from the commodities market, then how did the industry survive, no thrive for almost 100 years BEFORE it was put on the commodities market? Your "theory" is full of holes...
I see none of the so called experts are willing to address this obvious counterpoint...
The fact is that leeches want to make money from playing the market.
If all [censored] would break loose if crude products were removed from the commodities market, then how did the industry survive, no thrive for almost 100 years BEFORE it was put on the commodities market? Your "theory" is full of holes...
I see none of the so called experts are willing to address this obvious counterpoint...
The fact is that leeches want to make money from playing the market.
Originally Posted By: KitaCam
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: totegoat
WMD's or oil??? You decide.
I don't know what this means...
WMD = weapons of mass destruction....equation is like "guns or butter"
I know what WMD means, I don't know what WMD or oil means...how are the two related?
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: totegoat
WMD's or oil??? You decide.
I don't know what this means...
WMD = weapons of mass destruction....equation is like "guns or butter"
I know what WMD means, I don't know what WMD or oil means...how are the two related?
Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: Oldmoparguy1
Futures trading tends to even out prices over time and limits the more extreme price swings that would otherwise take place.
You are wasting your time trying to teach someone who has a preconceived notion how things work..based on emotion. I am totally done here.... you carry on.
I base my views on what I see going on...take the last poster's comment for example...if futures trading stabilizes prices, then why have we seen such huge price swings over the last 6 months? That wasn't the only time we've seen these large swings either, it's happened many times. You claim if crude products were taken off of the commodities market, all [censored] would break loose, and yet the oil industry flourished for decades WITHOUT being in that market...maybe if you pointed to something that was actually true I would be enlightened...
Originally Posted By: Oldmoparguy1
Futures trading tends to even out prices over time and limits the more extreme price swings that would otherwise take place.
You are wasting your time trying to teach someone who has a preconceived notion how things work..based on emotion. I am totally done here.... you carry on.
I base my views on what I see going on...take the last poster's comment for example...if futures trading stabilizes prices, then why have we seen such huge price swings over the last 6 months? That wasn't the only time we've seen these large swings either, it's happened many times. You claim if crude products were taken off of the commodities market, all [censored] would break loose, and yet the oil industry flourished for decades WITHOUT being in that market...maybe if you pointed to something that was actually true I would be enlightened...
Originally Posted By: grampi
Why do people feel it's okay for the industry to charge whatever they want when there are no other viable alternatives to gas/diesel?
Why do people who don't have their time, talent or treasure invested think they have the right to tell others what they should charge?
If you lower the price below the costs to bring gas to the pump, fewer suppliers will do it. If you think you can do it cheaper, get some investors and buy or build your own operation. Then you can put your money into it and right the wrongs you perceive.
Why do people feel it's okay for the industry to charge whatever they want when there are no other viable alternatives to gas/diesel?
Why do people who don't have their time, talent or treasure invested think they have the right to tell others what they should charge?
If you lower the price below the costs to bring gas to the pump, fewer suppliers will do it. If you think you can do it cheaper, get some investors and buy or build your own operation. Then you can put your money into it and right the wrongs you perceive.
Originally Posted By: GiveMeAVowel
Originally Posted By: grampi
If all [censored] would break loose if crude products were removed from the commodities market, then how did the industry survive, no thrive for almost 100 years BEFORE it was put on the commodities market? Your "theory" is full of holes...
I see none of the so called experts are willing to address this obvious counterpoint...
The fact is that leeches want to make money from playing the market.
grampi -- re:the pool bet in my page 2 post -- I won 7 six packs of beer for being the closest to the post number. my beer fridge runneth over. thank you.if you're ever in my area, i'll have to buy you a couple of beers.
you and opposing views make valid points. but it's illogical to compare the industry from about 100 years ago, to the way the commodities have been traded for about the last 20 or 30 years ago, since so much has changed.
give me a vowel -- you state that "... leeches want to make money from playing the market".
there is an ongoing thread about guys investing in the market. many are very good at it.i guess that they ( me included), are leeches.we take advantage of the situations in life to make money. we don't care about what happened 100 years ago, or how/why oil/ gas is traded -- we cannot change the system -- so why [censored] about it?
again,intelligent people, I mean leeches, take advantage of the situation. if you were smart,you would join us leeches, and make money.
after all, what good does [censored] do, except make people look like whiners?
I can't wait for gas to go up.
have a good day, all.
Originally Posted By: grampi
If all [censored] would break loose if crude products were removed from the commodities market, then how did the industry survive, no thrive for almost 100 years BEFORE it was put on the commodities market? Your "theory" is full of holes...
I see none of the so called experts are willing to address this obvious counterpoint...
The fact is that leeches want to make money from playing the market.
grampi -- re:the pool bet in my page 2 post -- I won 7 six packs of beer for being the closest to the post number. my beer fridge runneth over. thank you.if you're ever in my area, i'll have to buy you a couple of beers.
you and opposing views make valid points. but it's illogical to compare the industry from about 100 years ago, to the way the commodities have been traded for about the last 20 or 30 years ago, since so much has changed.
give me a vowel -- you state that "... leeches want to make money from playing the market".
there is an ongoing thread about guys investing in the market. many are very good at it.i guess that they ( me included), are leeches.we take advantage of the situations in life to make money. we don't care about what happened 100 years ago, or how/why oil/ gas is traded -- we cannot change the system -- so why [censored] about it?
again,intelligent people, I mean leeches, take advantage of the situation. if you were smart,you would join us leeches, and make money.
after all, what good does [censored] do, except make people look like whiners?
I can't wait for gas to go up.
have a good day, all.
But they are not leeches. They have to pay something to get into the market. When you buy a futures contract, you pay for the right to buy or sell at a set price.
So they have skin in the game. It could be your pension fund, or that of your local police, or fire department or teachers, state workers, etc.
Are you saying the earning a return for pension funds is the activity of a leech?
Airlines and other energy intensive businesses buy futures contracts to lock in a known price for the energy needed.
Producers can buy and sell futures contracts as well. They can establish set prices for their production.
But no one is leeching. Everyone has to put some skin in the game to buy the contract or have something to sell in order to sell a contract.
So leech doesn't accurately describe what is going on here. You have to invest something to be part of the market.
Originally Posted By: GiveMeAVowel
Originally Posted By: grampi
If all [censored] would break loose if crude products were removed from the commodities market, then how did the industry survive, no thrive for almost 100 years BEFORE it was put on the commodities market? Your "theory" is full of holes...
I see none of the so called experts are willing to address this obvious counterpoint...
The fact is that leeches want to make money from playing the market.
So they have skin in the game. It could be your pension fund, or that of your local police, or fire department or teachers, state workers, etc.
Are you saying the earning a return for pension funds is the activity of a leech?
Airlines and other energy intensive businesses buy futures contracts to lock in a known price for the energy needed.
Producers can buy and sell futures contracts as well. They can establish set prices for their production.
But no one is leeching. Everyone has to put some skin in the game to buy the contract or have something to sell in order to sell a contract.
So leech doesn't accurately describe what is going on here. You have to invest something to be part of the market.
Originally Posted By: GiveMeAVowel
Originally Posted By: grampi
If all [censored] would break loose if crude products were removed from the commodities market, then how did the industry survive, no thrive for almost 100 years BEFORE it was put on the commodities market? Your "theory" is full of holes...
I see none of the so called experts are willing to address this obvious counterpoint...
The fact is that leeches want to make money from playing the market.
Originally Posted By: javacontour
Originally Posted By: grampi
Why do people feel it's okay for the industry to charge whatever they want when there are no other viable alternatives to gas/diesel?
Why do people who don't have their time, talent or treasure invested think they have the right to tell others what they should charge?
If you lower the price below the costs to bring gas to the pump, fewer suppliers will do it. If you think you can do it cheaper, get some investors and buy or build your own operation. Then you can put your money into it and right the wrongs you perceive.
Nobody's saying that any product should be sold for less than what it costs to bring it to market, but it certainly doesn't cost oil companies anywhere near $3 a gal to bring gas to market...when crude is going for less than $60 a barrel, selling gas at $3 is gouging, I don't care what anybody says...
Originally Posted By: grampi
Why do people feel it's okay for the industry to charge whatever they want when there are no other viable alternatives to gas/diesel?
Why do people who don't have their time, talent or treasure invested think they have the right to tell others what they should charge?
If you lower the price below the costs to bring gas to the pump, fewer suppliers will do it. If you think you can do it cheaper, get some investors and buy or build your own operation. Then you can put your money into it and right the wrongs you perceive.
Nobody's saying that any product should be sold for less than what it costs to bring it to market, but it certainly doesn't cost oil companies anywhere near $3 a gal to bring gas to market...when crude is going for less than $60 a barrel, selling gas at $3 is gouging, I don't care what anybody says...
Originally Posted By: Dallas69
I didn't realize that the oil companies were really doing us all a favor by selling us gas.
This is what some here are saying it seems.
I don't think most of these people realize that gas and diesel are not just simply products sold by companies trying to make a profit...they are crucial to our national security...what do you think would happen if the price of these fuels all of a sudden shot up to $10 a gal, or for some reason there were massive shortages? It would literally bring our economy to it's knees because EVERYTHING in our economy relies on commerce, and these fuels power this commerce...and before someone says it, no I am not for gov mandated price controls, but how can we leave something this crucial to our nation's interests completely at the mercy of the oil industry and marketeers? It seems to me there should SOME safeguards in place to prevent a complete meltdown of our society in event something catastrophic were to happen with the industry/market...
I didn't realize that the oil companies were really doing us all a favor by selling us gas.
This is what some here are saying it seems.
I don't think most of these people realize that gas and diesel are not just simply products sold by companies trying to make a profit...they are crucial to our national security...what do you think would happen if the price of these fuels all of a sudden shot up to $10 a gal, or for some reason there were massive shortages? It would literally bring our economy to it's knees because EVERYTHING in our economy relies on commerce, and these fuels power this commerce...and before someone says it, no I am not for gov mandated price controls, but how can we leave something this crucial to our nation's interests completely at the mercy of the oil industry and marketeers? It seems to me there should SOME safeguards in place to prevent a complete meltdown of our society in event something catastrophic were to happen with the industry/market...
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: Dallas69
I didn't realize that the oil companies were really doing us all a favor by selling us gas.
This is what some here are saying it seems.
I don't think most of these people realize that gas and diesel are not just simply products sold by companies trying to make a profit...they are crucial to our national security...what do you think would happen if the price of these fuels all of a sudden shot up to $10 a gal, or for some reason there were massive shortages? It would literally bring our economy to it's knees because EVERYTHING in our economy relies on commerce, and these fuels power this commerce...and before someone says it, no I am not for gov mandated price controls, but how can we leave something this crucial to our nation's interests completely at the mercy of the oil industry and marketeers? It seems to me there should SOME safeguards in place to prevent a complete meltdown of our society in event something catastrophic were to happen with the industry/market...
I wish I could pay more at the gas pump, that will make us more secure and probably bring hair back to my head too.
come on guys, next time you fill up give the guy at the register an extra $20,
Originally Posted By: Dallas69
I didn't realize that the oil companies were really doing us all a favor by selling us gas.
This is what some here are saying it seems.
I don't think most of these people realize that gas and diesel are not just simply products sold by companies trying to make a profit...they are crucial to our national security...what do you think would happen if the price of these fuels all of a sudden shot up to $10 a gal, or for some reason there were massive shortages? It would literally bring our economy to it's knees because EVERYTHING in our economy relies on commerce, and these fuels power this commerce...and before someone says it, no I am not for gov mandated price controls, but how can we leave something this crucial to our nation's interests completely at the mercy of the oil industry and marketeers? It seems to me there should SOME safeguards in place to prevent a complete meltdown of our society in event something catastrophic were to happen with the industry/market...
I wish I could pay more at the gas pump, that will make us more secure and probably bring hair back to my head too.
come on guys, next time you fill up give the guy at the register an extra $20,
But oil companies are not selling it for $3/gallon.
First off, from a 42 gallon barrel, you get approximately 12 gallons of diesel and 19 gallons of gasoline. So 31 gallons of product. Assuming there is no loss of product, the crude to make this costs about $45. It will sell for $62 give or take. Probably less since diesel is priced lower than gasoline right now. Out of that $17 difference between the costs of 31 gallons of crude and what they might sell 31 gallons of gas and diesel, they have to build and staff a refinery, comply with all EPA, OSHA and other health rules AND provide benefits and health care to workers.
Second, July RBOB is going for around $2 gallon right now.
Third, at least where I live, there is $0.184 federal tax + $0.19 state tax + 6.25% sales tax on gasoline to reach the price of about $2.889/gallon.
I believe the sales tax is charged as a percentage of the $2.00+0.19+0.184 or on $2.374 adding another $0.148 per gallon, making it about $2.422
That doesn't even count delivering it to the station. So, out of the remaining $0.467 it has to be delivered to the station and then the station owner might make a profit on each gallon sold.
Not really seeing where fuel is over-priced based on the various and sundry costs associated with drilling for a barrel of oil and turning it into a gallon of gasoline or diesel.
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: javacontour
Originally Posted By: grampi
Why do people feel it's okay for the industry to charge whatever they want when there are no other viable alternatives to gas/diesel?
Why do people who don't have their time, talent or treasure invested think they have the right to tell others what they should charge?
If you lower the price below the costs to bring gas to the pump, fewer suppliers will do it. If you think you can do it cheaper, get some investors and buy or build your own operation. Then you can put your money into it and right the wrongs you perceive.
Nobody's saying that any product should be sold for less than what it costs to bring it to market, but it certainly doesn't cost oil companies anywhere near $3 a gal to bring gas to market...when crude is going for less than $60 a barrel, selling gas at $3 is gouging, I don't care what anybody says...
First off, from a 42 gallon barrel, you get approximately 12 gallons of diesel and 19 gallons of gasoline. So 31 gallons of product. Assuming there is no loss of product, the crude to make this costs about $45. It will sell for $62 give or take. Probably less since diesel is priced lower than gasoline right now. Out of that $17 difference between the costs of 31 gallons of crude and what they might sell 31 gallons of gas and diesel, they have to build and staff a refinery, comply with all EPA, OSHA and other health rules AND provide benefits and health care to workers.
Second, July RBOB is going for around $2 gallon right now.
Third, at least where I live, there is $0.184 federal tax + $0.19 state tax + 6.25% sales tax on gasoline to reach the price of about $2.889/gallon.
I believe the sales tax is charged as a percentage of the $2.00+0.19+0.184 or on $2.374 adding another $0.148 per gallon, making it about $2.422
That doesn't even count delivering it to the station. So, out of the remaining $0.467 it has to be delivered to the station and then the station owner might make a profit on each gallon sold.
Not really seeing where fuel is over-priced based on the various and sundry costs associated with drilling for a barrel of oil and turning it into a gallon of gasoline or diesel.
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: javacontour
Originally Posted By: grampi
Why do people feel it's okay for the industry to charge whatever they want when there are no other viable alternatives to gas/diesel?
Why do people who don't have their time, talent or treasure invested think they have the right to tell others what they should charge?
If you lower the price below the costs to bring gas to the pump, fewer suppliers will do it. If you think you can do it cheaper, get some investors and buy or build your own operation. Then you can put your money into it and right the wrongs you perceive.
Nobody's saying that any product should be sold for less than what it costs to bring it to market, but it certainly doesn't cost oil companies anywhere near $3 a gal to bring gas to market...when crude is going for less than $60 a barrel, selling gas at $3 is gouging, I don't care what anybody says...
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