Gapless compression rings and oil...

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Thanks for all of the contributions...

The more I think about it, the more I reckon that gapless must logically be the way to go for small GDI-Turbo engines, for all sorts of reasons.

First there's the issue of dumping unburnt fuel into oil. I'm guessing this is most likely when the engine is cold and when the piston & its rings are in their least thermally expanded state (meaning bigger gapping). Going gapless takes away what it effectively a direct drain hole to the sump (the conventional ring end gap). This might be critical until everything has warmed up and properly expanded.

Second, by minimising blow-by, you unload the PCV system and significantly reduce the tendency of oil to migrate out of the crankcase and in to the air intake. It seems a very sensible fix for long term build-up of carbon on the backsides in the inlet valves. Given that turbochargers effectively increase compression ratio and for a given gap, blowby flowrate increases with differential pressure, then I would have thought gapless and turbos should logically go together?

Third, the OEMs have got their knickers in a twist about LSPI on GDI-Turbos, reputedly caused by 'throw off' of engine oil which accumulates in the top land space, into the combustion zone. I always have problems visualising how oil interacts with the ring pack but the way I see it, if the ring pack is doing its job properly, there should never be ANY oil in the top land space! The only logical path for oil to get there is via the top ring end gap. So if you close off this pathway with a gapless top ring, do you at a stroke eliminate LSPI? To my mind, this seems a more sensible fix than shifting the entire PCMO market over from calcium detergents to ones based on magnesium.
 
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Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Low tension oil control rings must be used with a serious crankcase vacuum system. That alone keeps them out of most engines.


Yep. The really serious always have that little pump somewhere, half the time it's hard to see...
 
The sprint car guys aways run vacum pumps.

Not that its application specific, but here is a dyno chart I dug up on the interwebs demonstrating the ring flutter I spoke of above 6K.

Everywhere else under the curve the gapless setup rules or ties.

I found lifespan equal or possibly better than regular ring and I beat this thing like it owed me money - far harder than anyone could ever beat a 500Hp/500ft lb car.

UD
 
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UncleDave,

The source you found on the net, there wouldn't be any other associated engine performance curves to look at would there? Maybe a blow-by flowrate comparison on anything on fuel economy or emissions? Thanks.
 
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
UncleDave,

The source you found on the net, there wouldn't be any other associated engine performance curves to look at would there? Maybe a blow-by flowrate comparison on anything on fuel economy or emissions? Thanks.



I just typed "gapless dyno chart" in google and looked at the images. Youll find a bunch of stuff to look at.

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp-0301-dyno-performance-piston-ring-test/

I ran this test on my own years ago on my SBC, I have the later dyno chart but not the earlier one.
Picked up the same HP as the hot rod test and used same dyno room and guy they did.

The dyno operator was the legendary Steve Brule at Westech I spent the money to go there because Steve knows how to tune and because I didnt want any nonsense on the figures.

UD

 
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Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Oem's don't use them because they must be hand fit and that takes a bit of time.

I've heard above 6K zero gaps can induce flutter but in a marine app I didn't need to worry about 6K+.

Ran Childs and Albert zero gap secondaries, on my 500HP/500Ft lb 406 for decades.

Ran like a scalded dog and didn't use any oil.

UD
My last boat engine saw 8,000 RPMs as possible.
 
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Oem's don't use them because they must be hand fit and that takes a bit of time.

I've heard above 6K zero gaps can induce flutter but in a marine app I didn't need to worry about 6K+.

Ran Childs and Albert zero gap secondaries, on my 500HP/500Ft lb 406 for decades.

Ran like a scalded dog and didn't use any oil.

UD
My last boat engine saw 8,000 RPMs as possible.


Nice. Jet Im guessing?

I have outdrive rigs- I have to be all done by 6K and idle below 1K.

This window makes creating power a lot more difficult.

UD
 
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