Fuzzy owners manual info

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I don't see why a maximum mileage and/or time limit couldn't be stated in the owner's manual. If the car was driven steadily at 60 mph on the highway for days, what would be the maximum mileage the OEM would be comfortable with? (using their recommended oil and filter combo). In constant short trips a 2 miles or less what would be the min? I would think this would be useful information for the car owner, especially if they exceed the limits and the O/L monitor says otherwise. O/L monitors can malfunction too.

I guess it comes down to that the OEM doesn't think the car owner is capable of thinking and analyzing for themselves. And in many cases, they're right. No doubt some guy seeing a 15K max oil run will think it applies to their 2 mile daily commute in Alaska.
 
Navy - you can change at shorter interval, if that makes you smile.Just use the OLM as a MAX.
I just dumped a synthetic fill at about 4700 on my Nissan as she wasn't running the way I like. May have been fuel dilution or may have been junky oil. It sure likes the Supertech Syn and the Hyundai filter better than the Valvoline 5w30 with the Honda s2000 filter.
Now why is my tail pipie coal black? Should I have the dealer service look at fuel pressure? Up here its more about bad gasoline killing the FI system more than anything else. Got one bad tank of junk at Mobil station in Windham and its was DOWN HILL FROM THERE.
 
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Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
This guy always ask questions but then doesn't like the answers people give him.
I noticed that myself. Sounds like another application of Shannow's favorite theory. Some posit questions so they can disagree with your answer. It makes them feel good, I suppose.
My new (to me) Camry V6 has a simple 5000 mile oil change reminder light. I know there are oils and filters which can go well beyond that.
Since the car is now out of stealer clutches it will be fed T6 and Pure One filters instead of the "bulk" 5W-30 dealer stuff. How much beyond 5000 miles will it be good for? I suspect to find out I'll have to do a UOA at about 7500. The Camry I put 335K on got changed at 7500. Didn't seem to harm anything.
 
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
This guy always ask questions but then doesn't like the answers people give him.
I noticed that myself. Sounds like another application of Shannow's favorite theory. Some posit questions so they can disagree with your answer. It makes them feel good, I suppose.
My new (to me) Camry V6 has a simple 5000 mile oil change reminder light. I know there are oils and filters which can go well beyond that.
Since the car is now out of stealer clutches it will be fed T6 and Pure One filters instead of the "bulk" 5W-30 dealer stuff. How much beyond 5000 miles will it be good for? I suspect to find out I'll have to do a UOA at about 7500. The Camry I put 335K on got changed at 7500. Didn't seem to harm anything.



Well actually....questions I ask are from the pursuit of knowledge and gaining that knowledge to better understand. Some but not all, let me say that again before everyone gets butt hurt, SOME BUT NOT ALL, people who answer my posts actually give me a non biased answer whether based on opinion or facts. And then there's some who answer my question(s) with a tone of disrespect as if I'm asking rhetorical questions that every average joe should already know.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: NavyVet88
Originally Posted By: 01_celica_gt
That's because it runs off an algorithm.


Seems like they should still give me a mileage though


Why? The algorithm is smarter than some generic number.

Id suspect they may say once a year or something like that, or the algorithm is tuned to it. Though some of my cars have had an algorithm that wouldn't recommend changing based on time until 2 years (which worked perfectly).

There may be a severe service value provided someplace.


NavyVet88, trust the algorithm OLM thingie. It does extremely well, since oil change time is determined by temperature profiles, total engine revolutions, piston loading, etc.

What the OLM does not do is detect mechanical problems like coolant leaks into oil, or driving in dusty conditions a lot, but those are not usually the case.

I'm surprised that it says to change at 15%. I say go to zero%, and use a decent synthetic to make double sure you get there. ... Bottom line, the OLM is very, very smart; trust it.
 
Trust your senses too - If the car consistently runs foul then the oils gotta go.

This OLM does NOT see the oil chemistry in situ. And It does NOT know what oil chemistry you put in.

I don't like engines with cast in EX manifolds and L shaped cam followers (my last Honda Fit junkbox).

I think Honda engines will become NOT "easy on oil" anymore.
 
Look at the bottom of page 259 of your Owner's Manual - it should say in tiny type to change if the MM hasn't flashed after a year:

"*1: If a message SERVICE does not appear more than 12 months after the display is reset, change the
engine oil every year."

2013 Civic Sedan Owner's Manual
 
No its not a bad comparison... You say well its an algorithm... SO?? Do you think el computer can't Jack up the algorithm and not work properly??? Come on.. It can happen just the same. No system is 1000%. Period. Doesn't matter what we want to tell ourselves.
Good, bad or indifferent ... Nothing is failure proof. All I'm saying is that if one wants to go with a oil life monitor all the way down to 20% or less is to have two or so UOAs done to verify its still serviceable. Trust but verify. Computers Jack things up... As evidenced by in 1983 a Soviet fella at a radar station say a number of incoming ICBMs... However... They weren't. It was a false alarm. He had good sense to not trust what the radar looked like. He was able to figure out what was really going on. It was an error. WWW III almost happened.
 
Originally Posted By: bbhero
First off I think your logic is very well stated. Having said that... It sometimes surprises me how much people want to blindly trust an oil life monitor. These are not 100% in my opinion. I'm not saying that they are total junk either. If I were to have a oil life monitor I would most certainly have a UOA done at 20% two or three times to verify this system was working properly. Lemme tell you all this with all due seriousness... Don't blindly trust ANY mechanical or electrical equipment.. We had a patient come back from post anathesia recovery unit with a Patient Controlled Analgesic or a PCA. Loaded with IV Dilaudid. By the way... Dilaudid is a synthetic form of morphine that equals 1 mg of Dilaudid is equal to 7 mg of morphine. Everything seemed fine... Then my co worker went in and patient didn't look good at all.... PCA failed.. Rapid Response Team called. They had to use almost ALL of the NARCAN in the ENTIRE Hospital to reverse all of the Dilaudid he got in a MASSIVE bolus when that pump failed. My co worker estimated he got 20 mg or more of IV Dilaudid... That patient barely made it.

So, in summary... Don't just blindly trust the machine or OLMs. Not only did the way the patient looked gave away something was going terribly wrong... My co worker had the good sense to look at the IV bag of Dilaudid inside the PCA and realized it was near half empty in a very short period of time.. That machine was FAR off on just how much IV Dilaudid had indeed been given. Someone almost died proving that they weren't safe enough to trust...

It's like the old Russian saying Ronald Reagan said.. Trust but verify.


Originally Posted By: bbhero
No its not a bad comparison... You say well its an algorithm... SO?? Do you think el computer can't Jack up the algorithm and not work properly??? Come on.. It can happen just the same. No system is 1000%. Period. Doesn't matter what we want to tell ourselves.
Good, bad or indifferent ... Nothing is failure proof. All I'm saying is that if one wants to go with a oil life monitor all the way down to 20% or less is to have two or so UOAs done to verify its still serviceable. Trust but verify. Computers Jack things up... As evidenced by in 1983 a Soviet fella at a radar station say a number of incoming ICBMs... However... They weren't. It was a false alarm. He had good sense to not trust what the radar looked like. He was able to figure out what was really going on. It was an error. WWW III almost happened.


It's just oil...

I would not compare it to life and death situations.

Modern synthetics can go 15k or more between changes. It can take up to 50k of driving on a fill before an engine fails. If the OLM tells you to go 3k over 5k it's really inconsequential. Also if OLMs had problems we would hear about it.
 
One important note about what happened in that PCA case.. The digital display on the PCA pump said that the amount of doses and amount of Dilaudid given was WELL below a unsafe level that could have been administered. However, it was OBVIOUSLY wrong. The screen said the amount given was totally safe something like 1.2 mg given in a hour. When in fact WAY more than that had just been given. Blindly trusting the digital display wouldn't have been a good way to go. Again, nothing against having or using computers in our daily life. Just verify that they are properly measuring what they are supposed to be measuring. Doing our due diligence can help assure the desired outcomes. Computers are a great tool that have made modern life far easier in many ways. But these computers are not always 100% in their functioning. So it is advisable in my opinion to take the time to verify that they are working in a desired manner. Math errors are not just done by people.
 
It's one thing for a person to not trust the OLM and instead do UOA to get better data based on their specific situation and driving habits. On the other hand it is completely ridiculous to pick an arbitrary change interval (like 3k, 5k, etc miles) just because it feels right, or because your grandpa did it that way. The OLM is based on actual data. Arbitrary change intervals are no more safe than the OLM but people think they are because now they are in control, as opposed to the computer. Reducing your change interval because of parameters the OLM may not be aware of (for example dusty conditions) I think is valid and could warrant reducing somewhat the change interval (instead of changing at 15%, change it at 30%).
 
For all of you who have just given me an unbiased answer I appreciate it very well because I have a better understanding of the OLM situation and I will carry this knowledge with me into the future. I definitely did not know that the OLM calculated oil life based on all the mentioned criteria, I thought after x-amount of miles the percentage just dropped regardless of load and driving conditions. Thanks!
 
Originally Posted By: NavyVet88
I definitely did not know that the OLM calculated oil life based on all the mentioned criteria, I thought after x-amount of miles the percentage just dropped regardless of load and driving conditions. Thanks!


Its interesting. Its true some of the oil life monitors in the past would just simply monitor time and miles, thats all. Yet, GM, BMW, Mercedes, Ford, Honda, etc. do it quite well.

My past 2005 Ford was just a simple time-miles system, kind of primitive. GM for a long time has tested and perfected their monitor which actually tries to predict chemical changes in the oil based on temperature, time, RPM sustained, piston loading (to predict blow-by oil degradation effects). Fords and Hondas, among others, have caught up with what GM has been doing a long time with their own "similar" sophisticated algorithms.

IOTW, those algorithms keep track of oil conditions as we would if we were walking computers.

It gets even more interesting with BMW and Mercedes, where they actually sense electro-chemical changes in the oil to determine oil contamination or too much oxidation, viscosity loss, all sense by capacitance-resistance measurements! They combine that with GM-like algorithms to really detect more oil problems, but the GM-Ford-Honda schemes work well too.
 
If you really want a hard numerical mileage number, surf around to your specific forums for your vehicle and get feedback from the users when theirs ticked over.

I think in the hondas the algorithm have the high end to tick over around 12,500 miles or so; typically to get that much also means mostly highway easy cruising.

There are some service chart pdfs, mainly from other countries, where they have the checkbox for Oil change at 12.5k miles. Hopefully that makes you warmer and fuzzier at night.
 
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Originally Posted By: NavyVet88
Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28
Does it tell you to never exceed one year?

Nope. It just says I should change it at 15%. I'm not gonna run oil down to 15% thinking I have nothing to worry about. Running oil that far in seems like the same thing as my deodorant saying that I only have to apply it once a week guarantee

Yes, it does (link).
 
Well the point has been made that there's not a numerical value attached to that particular page in the manual.
 
Link not working for me Gokhan.


I think the jist of it NavyVet88, is to save oil. Do not go past twelve months and do not exceed a certain mileage, typically 7500-10000.

Us here, we can critique it and some of us typically run our vehicles different than setting the cruise on the speed limit or just getting to and from work or A to B. but the OLM using dealer bulk oil should take care of you just fine.


But here at Bob, we can research our filter choice, dollar oil or boutique and everything between, driving style, smoothness of the engine, power output, acceleration power and other such items to find what works.


So, I guess you aren't supposed to blindly trust something...lol, aka traffic lights...I used to leap at the sight of a green light until getting Tboned by a Mack, swiped by the second car to run the red, and then just witnessing terrible sights from the greed or laziness of those who are scared to use their brakes, are impatient, dont want to spill their beer or whatever. Maybe it is best to use the OLM as a tool and not a be all end all argument to determine service. I think it is for all of us though.


We at Bob may be more prone to overmaintenance and then those who dont care about this stuff and just want to get where they are going may forget, not know they are supposed to read the manual , wait until something isnt right before performing maintenance.......and then those who either dont know how to do the work, have no tools or garage available but want to take care of their stuff may do what they can and visit a trusted mechanic who will advise and keep things up to date for them.



So I guess the EPA, API, DOT, automobile makers, and the oil companies got together. Something like "hey, half of the drivers dont change the oil and the other half change it way too often". If we could even it out, then the machines would last longer, less automotive paperweights et cetera AND we will use the oil to its intended depletion.
 
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