Fuel taxes and Roads Funding: Michigan is a Mess

[JXW]

https://www.michigan.gov/documents/mdot/RealityCheckMyth6_473561_7.pdf

An example of how tax revenues do not flow into infrastructure improvements. Roads in this state have alot to be desired. Fiscal accountability for law makers is overdue.

 

[4WD]

Roads have to be built better to survive these days - I see our county try to patch or do a really thin pavement topper - trucks, farm equipment, and traffic tear it up quickly …
Conversely, the freeway project builds up and packs layers ahead of 4” of asphalt pavement - sets perfect rebar on that - and pours a foot of concrete that you’ll not drive on for a while …

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

https://www.michigan.gov/documents/mdot/RealityCheckMyth6_473561_7.pdf

An example of how tax revenues do not flow into infrastructure improvements. Roads in this state have alot to be desired. Fiscal accountability for law makers is overdue.

I don't think you read your article. The taxes go exactly where they're supposed to. You just think that because there's a sales tax (6 cents/gal) on fuel that those revenues should go to roads/infrastructure. Sales revenue flows to the general fund. The fuel tax (18 cents/gal), goes to fund infrastructure, is one of the lowest in the nation. For example my state Georgia doesn't have a sales tax on fuel but the fuel tax is 27 cents/gal.

In your piece 2 cents/gal of fuel tax doesn't fund infrastructure.

If the Michigan legislature wanted all of the sales tax revenue to go to infrastructure they would've just increased the fuel tax rather than levy a sales tax.

Michigan weather and soils are tough on roads. Frost heaving and constant freeze/thaw cycling.

 

[4WD]

I don't think you read your article. The taxes go exactly where they're supposed to. You just think that because there's a sales tax (6 cents/gal) on fuel that those revenues should go to roads/infrastructure. Sales revenue flows to the general fund. The fuel tax (18 cents/gal), goes to fund infrastructure, is one of the lowest in the nation. For example my state Georgia doesn't have a sales tax on fuel but the fuel tax is 27 cents/gal.

In your piece 2 cents/gal of fuel tax doesn't fund infrastructure.

If the Michigan legislature wanted all of the sales tax revenue to go to infrastructure they would've just increased the fuel tax rather than levy a sales tax.

Michigan weather and soils are tough on roads. Frost heaving and constant freeze/thaw cycling.

My Dermatologist moved from there. Said I apologize for our endless road construction …
He said no worry - back home we have two seasons: Winter and Construction Season …

 

[Spector]

My main complaint here (Chattanooga) is the road system, all back roads except for interstates, every secondary road ( not joking) is in need of repaving. Potholes, large cracks, sinkholes, narrow 2 lane roads with no guardrails (mountain roads). Horrendous. We have huge infrastructure problems and what do the city leaders want, a new minor league stadium. All they care about is envelopment, nothing to support it!!!! City is growing too fast, no idea where the money goes.

 

[Kjmack]

It's has to be done correctly to begin with and in Michigan it never is .

 

[earlyre]

as a kid, we would vacation in MI, (rented a house on a little lake just outside Kalkaska) I didn't need to look out the windows to know when we crossed the MI border....
the frost heaves in the road told me.
nice and smooth right up to the line, as soon as we crossed, Thump, thump, thump, thump.. and it didn't matter if we were on a country road, or I-75...

 

[slo town]

Conversely, the freeway project builds up and packs layers ahead of 4” of asphalt pavement - sets perfect rebar on that - and pours a foot of concrete that you’ll not drive on for a while …

In Cali they are redoing a long section of Hwy 101 40 miles north of us. Same construction technique, plus they're grinding it pool table smooth with rain grooves after completion. It's taking forever but I'm impressed.

Scott

 

[4WD]

In Cali they are redoing a long section of Hwy 101 40 miles north of us. Same construction technique, plus they're grinding it pool table smooth with rain grooves after completion. It's taking forever but I'm impressed.

Scott

Exactly - parallel groves and no perpendicular “thumper seams”

 

[slo town]

I'm usually impressed with the work of Cal Trans and their subcontractors, but one thing Cal Trans seems unable to do is make smooth pavement transitions on and off bridges and overpasses.

Scott

 

[PandaBear]

In before lock

BTW my coworker moved here from Michigan said, California has GREAT ROADS, and cheap auto insurance! Can you believe it? We have GREAT ROADS. Now please move out of California because somewhere else have even better roads for even less tax. They may charge toll though.....

 

[wpod]

People complain about the bad roads then complain when the roads are being repaired / rebuilt.

 

[JohnnyG]

In before lock

BTW my coworker moved here from Michigan said, California has GREAT ROADS, and cheap auto insurance! Can you believe it? We have GREAT ROADS. Now please move out of California because somewhere else have even better roads for even less tax. They may charge toll though.....

Yeah, I think they're all moving here! Roads are good, but building new developments every day with NO consideration on how to expand the road capacity. State rd 44, heading from I95 to the beach is an absolute parking lot any time the sun comes out. This is snow bird season too, so it's worse now. So, what do they do? Build another housing plan!

 

[brianl703]

Potholes, large cracks, sinkholes, narrow 2 lane roads with no guardrails (mountain roads). Horrendous. We have huge infrastructure problems and what do the city leaders want, a new minor league stadium. All they care about is envelopment, nothing to support it!!!! City is growing too fast, no idea where the money goes.

About the same in Virginia. The worst interstate bottleneck in the nation according to some recent study is I95 between Prince William County (MM 150) and Spotsylvania County (MM 130). This routinely backs up on Saturdays and Sundays.

The alternative? Route 1 (US 1) and some 2-lane country roads with no shoulders. Way back when, Governor Byrd made a promise to get these roads paved, got elected, got 'em paved, and that's where the improvements stopped. They didn't address the horizontal or vertical alignment, they didn't address the lack of shoulders, they didn't address the drainage ditch right next to the pavement (a common sight in Virginia is a new strip of asphalt right on the outer edges of the road, because the pavement deteriorates there..wonder why?)

Another Virginia specialty is 4-laning a highway by building another parallel 2-lane road. This meets the then-current standards for horizontal and vertical alignment, but then they leave the original 2-lane section as it is, hills and all. They recently had to blow up a hill on the original 2-lane part of US29 near Gainesville, VA because it was causing a visibility problem for traffic not being able to see stopped traffic on the other side resulting in lots of crashes. Why it didn't occur to them to do this 40 years ago when they 4-laned it is beyond me.

Oh, and don't get me started on Virginia's apparent hate for streetlighting. Interchange of I66 and I81, no lighting whatsoever, and a lot of primary routes even in built-up areas get absolutely no street lighting either.

 

[97prizm]

The issue is that fuel taxes repeatedly get dumped into the general fund and spent elsewhere.

 

[Jackson_Slugger]

In before lock

BTW my coworker moved here from Michigan said, California has GREAT ROADS, and cheap auto insurance! Can you believe it? We have GREAT ROADS. Now please move out of California because somewhere else have even better roads for even less tax. They may charge toll though.....

Because your roads are actually parking lots...

 

[brianl703]

Because your roads are actually parking lots...

Many Virginia roads double as parking lots when the sun is shining, but that doesn't improve their condition any.

 

[JXW]

I don't think you read your article. The taxes go exactly where they're supposed to. You just think that because there's a sales tax (6 cents/gal) on fuel that those revenues should go to roads/infrastructure. Sales revenue flows to the general fund. The fuel tax (18 cents/gal), goes to fund infrastructure, is one of the lowest in the nation. For example my state Georgia doesn't have a sales tax on fuel but the fuel tax is 27 cents/gal.

In your piece 2 cents/gal of fuel tax doesn't fund infrastructure.

If the Michigan legislature wanted all of the sales tax revenue to go to infrastructure they would've just increased the fuel tax rather than levy a sales tax.

Michigan weather and soils are tough on roads. Frost heaving and constant freeze/thaw

I don't think you read your article. The taxes go exactly where they're supposed to. You just think that because there's a sales tax (6 cents/gal) on fuel that those revenues should go to roads/infrastructure. Sales revenue flows to the general fund. The fuel tax (18 cents/gal), goes to fund infrastructure, is one of the lowest in the nation. For example my state Georgia doesn't have a sales tax on fuel but the fuel tax is 27 cents/gal.

In your piece 2 cents/gal of fuel tax doesn't fund infrastructure.

If the Michigan legislature wanted all of the sales tax revenue to go to infrastructure they would've just increased the fuel tax rather than levy a sales tax.

Michigan weather and soils are tough on roads. Frost heaving and constant freeze/thaw cycling.

.20 cents of the fuel taxes go to "Schools and Local Government" per the article. How much of the .20 goes to local gov't? IMO, this is where the rubber meets the road. Read it again. Sounds like all is well right? Well schools are underfunded and local gov't is doing just fine. Retirement accounts, pensions, health plans--all paid for with tax revenues.

My neighborhood has a $1.2 million petition to the county to fix the roads. They are 35 years aged and no maintenance from the county. Each home will pay $26,500 or more to fund this project. There is zero subsidy from the County. At the end of the day, projecting to improve infrastructure costs and proper allocation of collected taxes would drive success in keeping this place from looking third world.

BTW, any idea how much the state lottery supplies the school system? Collecting 6% tax on EVERYTHING is significant. After 35 years--the county is broke, the state is just getting by...something smells rotten in Denmark.

 

[Kjmack]

.20 cents of the fuel taxes go to "Schools and Local Government" per the article. How much of the .20 goes to local gov't? IMO, this is where the rubber meets the road. Read it again. Sounds like all is well right? Well schools are underfunded and local gov't is doing just fine. Retirement accounts, pensions, health plans--all paid for with tax revenues.

My neighborhood has a $1.2 million petition to the county to fix the roads. They are 35 years aged and no maintenance from the county. Each home will pay $26,500 or more to fund this project. There is zero subsidy from the County. At the end of the day, projecting to improve infrastructure costs and proper allocation of collected taxes would drive success in keeping this place from looking third world.

BTW, any idea how much the state lottery supplies the school system? Collecting 6% tax on EVERYTHING is significant. After 35 years--the county is broke, the state is just getting by...something smells rotten in Denmark.

Yup , unfunded pension funds . Every tax Michigan tries to pass has in small print that it can be used for whatever they choose . And what they choose is to fund their pension fund .

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

.20 cents of the fuel taxes go to "Schools and Local Government" per the article. How much of the .20 goes to local gov't? IMO, this is where the rubber meets the road. Read it again. Sounds like all is well right? Well schools are underfunded and local gov't is doing just fine. Retirement accounts, pensions, health plans--all paid for with tax revenues.

My neighborhood has a $1.2 million petition to the county to fix the roads. They are 35 years aged and no maintenance from the county. Each home will pay $26,500 or more to fund this project. There is zero subsidy from the County. At the end of the day, projecting to improve infrastructure costs and proper allocation of collected taxes would drive success in keeping this place from looking third world.

BTW, any idea how much the state lottery supplies the school system? Collecting 6% tax on EVERYTHING is significant. After 35 years--the county is broke, the state is just getting by...something smells rotten in Denmark.

Ya I don't know what I was thinking.