I bought a gallon of FP about a month ago and just added a shock treatment of 12 oz to about 20 gallons to my 1995 Crown Victoria. I had been using Lucas UCL for about a month prior to this. I noticed that my car has started pinging like crazy under load. Could this be related to FP? It wasn't pinging before or during the time I was using Lucas UCL. Any ideas? (FWIW, my car has 119,xxx miles, and I just finished a double tratment or AutoRX).
Fuel Power questions...
- Thread starter KennyPW6184
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Could be related, what octane is reccomended, and what did u use?
JHZR2
Staff member
Ive noted this in my 98 Chevy S-10 (4.3L V6)... Ive noted it on here previously.
despite the claims that you can drop an octane level with its use, this is not the case except in dirty engines where cleaning is the cause of the lower octane requuirement... Ive determined this from my chevy and my BMW which has a chip to take 91, and which made lots of bad sounds when I switched to FP and 89.
Personally, I use FP for the lubricity (easily noticed by fuel pump sound), not cleaning. For cleaning, one can use a variety of other substances, like MMO. So long as your gas is reasonably high quality, there should be negligible buildup anyway, based upon the results of the 8 cars I maintain, most of which have reached 100k since we got them new, others well on their way.
JMH
despite the claims that you can drop an octane level with its use, this is not the case except in dirty engines where cleaning is the cause of the lower octane requuirement... Ive determined this from my chevy and my BMW which has a chip to take 91, and which made lots of bad sounds when I switched to FP and 89.
Personally, I use FP for the lubricity (easily noticed by fuel pump sound), not cleaning. For cleaning, one can use a variety of other substances, like MMO. So long as your gas is reasonably high quality, there should be negligible buildup anyway, based upon the results of the 8 cars I maintain, most of which have reached 100k since we got them new, others well on their way.
JMH
During cleaning, rough edges on the partly removed carbon deposits may glow red-hot and cause pre-ignition ping. This will go away after all the combustion chamber carbon is removed. It is somewhat common for engines being cleaned to run worse for a short time before they run better.
Ken
Ken
In a newer car or truck with a knock-sensor,why would it be pinging? I'd think the computer would adjust the ignition timing till the pinging stopped. I don't know.
So long as your gas is reasonably high quality, there should be negligible buildup anyway, based upon the results of the 8 cars I maintain, most of which have reached 100k since we got them new, others well on their way. Of these 8 cars you maintain I would think you put in some kind of fuel additive over their life even if its V Power gas. I for one think with every oil change or 6 months the use of FP or Techtron is acceptable. After all with things the way they are today cost cutting everywhere has cheapened most everything.
Is it possible that the pinging is due to hot summer weather? I expect a couple of seconds of pinging if it gets really hot, like in traffic on a hot day, even with a knock sensor.
Knock sensors can only retard engine timing so much, and they're fairly ineffective at preventing knock when an engine has any decent amount of deposit buildup. Knock sensors are designed to reduce preignition from poor octane gas igniting before the spark plug fires. This preignition ONLY happens during the compression stroke, and its effects can be mitigated by retarding timing so the two flame fronts don't impact with each other and cause a knock. Detonation/pinging from carbon deposits, however, can happen at any time during the intake/exhaust cycle (although obviously much more during intake), and tend to happen under heavy throttle because the engine has low vacuum and fuel vapor literally liquefies (because of low vacuum), making the fuel/air mixture "lean." Combine this with a red hot piece of carbon, and there's no way on earth that a knock sensor can do anything about it.
Use the fuel power. That stuff really does work wonders. All the gasoline that comes into Cleveland is junk, AND it has alcohol (which accelerates deposit formation). Fuel power is the only thing that keeps my engine knock-free without destroying the fuel pump. Have faith-keep adding shock treatment amounts, and your knocking will go away-
Hope this helps-
Fitz
Use the fuel power. That stuff really does work wonders. All the gasoline that comes into Cleveland is junk, AND it has alcohol (which accelerates deposit formation). Fuel power is the only thing that keeps my engine knock-free without destroying the fuel pump. Have faith-keep adding shock treatment amounts, and your knocking will go away-
Hope this helps-
Fitz
Thanks for the advice. My owners manual calls for regular unleaded, and that is what i have been using. Maybe I'll go up to 89 or 93 for a while while it's cleaning. I've heard a lot of good things about FP and I will continue to use it.
I am pretty sure my vehicle doesn't have a knock sensor. They came out either in '96 or '98 in the 4.6L v8 used in the Crown Vic, Grand Marq, and Towncar.
I am pretty sure my vehicle doesn't have a knock sensor. They came out either in '96 or '98 in the 4.6L v8 used in the Crown Vic, Grand Marq, and Towncar.
JHZR2
Staff member
Good point... all gas is additized to some point. What point that is is another question.quote:
Originally posted by LubeOiler:
"So long as your gas is reasonably high quality, there should be negligible buildup anyway, based upon the results of the 8 cars I maintain, most of which have reached 100k since we got them new, others well on their way." Of these 8 cars you maintain I would think you put in some kind of fuel additive over their life even if its V Power gas. I for one think with every oil change or 6 months the use of FP or Techtron is acceptable. After all with things the way they are today cost cutting everywhere has cheapened most everything.
All of the cars, up to a year or so ago, only ver had name-brand (most etirely NJ station-bought) regular gasoline (premium if required by the OM). But NJ gas is fairly decent though, and for all the refineries around and people on the road, typically its pretty fresh too. And I would have to guess that additive content is checked somewhat regularly.
Kenny: I wouldnt go up to 89 or 93 when doing the cleaning. As I said, ive noticed more ignition noise in my 98 truck when using FP, but thats the only vehicle where this has been noted. From what Ive read, 89 or 93 can be absorbed into deposits that may exist, causing the problem to remain unchanged. Id say run what will get it the hottest and best burn, based upon engine design... Doped with cleaner, it will do the best work.
Also consider MMO, it seems to be a strong cleaner.
JMH
I wonder if I could safely (and effectively) use Lucas UCL and FP together. I never experienced pinging while using Lucas UCL.
(BTW, is MMO Marvel Mystery Oil, or is it something else?)
(BTW, is MMO Marvel Mystery Oil, or is it something else?)
MMO = Marvel Mystery Oil
If the pinging is just with the shock treatment, it should go away with your next tank of fuel and regular FP dosage.
I don't see the need of mixing any fuel additives together. Use one or the other.
Change the air/fuel filters, thermostat, antifreeze, plugs..... if they haven't been done in a while.
If the pinging is just with the shock treatment, it should go away with your next tank of fuel and regular FP dosage.
I don't see the need of mixing any fuel additives together. Use one or the other.
Change the air/fuel filters, thermostat, antifreeze, plugs..... if they haven't been done in a while.
I am on my first tank after the shock treatment (1oz/5gal), and it still pings a lot. I've noticed that even just cruising along at 65mph, after driving 30 or so minutes, I notice that it's quietly but almost constantly pinging. I'm not sure if I shouls just stay with 87 octane b/c this much pinging will eventually do damage to the engine.
I'm about to return home after a 500 mile trip to visit my uncle in Georgia, and I don't want to be pinging the entire way and be slowly damaging mu engine. Does high octane fuel really hinder the FP cleaning process that much, or should I use higher octane gas for now to combat the pinging?
BTW, I changed the plugs, antfreeze, thermostat (threw in a 180 degree one), air filter, and fuel filter all within the past 10,000 miles (I changed the air filter about 1,000 miles ago).
I'm about to return home after a 500 mile trip to visit my uncle in Georgia, and I don't want to be pinging the entire way and be slowly damaging mu engine. Does high octane fuel really hinder the FP cleaning process that much, or should I use higher octane gas for now to combat the pinging?
BTW, I changed the plugs, antfreeze, thermostat (threw in a 180 degree one), air filter, and fuel filter all within the past 10,000 miles (I changed the air filter about 1,000 miles ago).
Try a Seafoam treatment through the brake booster line into the intake or the pcv line on a fully warmed up engine (driven for 15 miles or so).
Follow directions, and don't try to feed too much in at once, feed in at a rate where it stutters a little at fast idle (1500 to 2000 rpm), shut off immediately and let it sit for 30 minutes.
Start car, and immediatly go on a bootlegging drive on the freeway going fast and slowing down with engine braking repeatedly.
There will be smoke, do not sweat it.
Follow directions, and don't try to feed too much in at once, feed in at a rate where it stutters a little at fast idle (1500 to 2000 rpm), shut off immediately and let it sit for 30 minutes.
Start car, and immediatly go on a bootlegging drive on the freeway going fast and slowing down with engine braking repeatedly.
There will be smoke, do not sweat it.
Anyone know if FP60 contains PEA ?
The polyether amines are superior deposit control additives because they burn more completely in an engine. Other types of deposit control additives do not burn as completely, and in fact, contribute to deposits in an engine as they are burned.
The polyether amines are superior deposit control additives because they burn more completely in an engine. Other types of deposit control additives do not burn as completely, and in fact, contribute to deposits in an engine as they are burned.
I have been running fp at 6 oz per 10 gal tank for 3 tanks now and have not had any pinging. I will run 1 more tank at this & then go to 2 oz per tank. I wanted to make sure everything is cleaned up & then keep it that way. Mileage is up & motor seems quieter. 96 geo metro 100,000 mi.
Steve
Steve
after 119K miles on that CV, go with the higher octane, should not effect cleaning process of FP. I think youhave a lot of serious cleaning that needs to be going on with that many miles and a '95, much more than a single tank could clear. I would run some sort of cleaner every tank for a while , maybe at least 10 tanks worth at low dosages while looking for brands / grades that do not ping. FP will probably work over time, but it is not a primary octane boost. Other cleaners may work faster but will not give protection while doing so is my feeling. I think the Lucas provides no cleanig, just covers up the crud and provides some wear protection.
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