"Fuel Efficiency Standards Are Dead"

[buster]

What do you think? Are the days of 0w5 and auto/start/stop turbo 1.0L engines a thing of the past?

Per Jalopnik:

"If there's one thing Americans love, it's V8 engines. Big, fast, loud, they're the American definition of freedom wrapped into a gas-guzzling package. For a few years it looked like that gluttony for fuel could kill the V8, dooming Americans to immediate Stalinism and bread lines, but thankfully ..... has a solution: Ending penalties for failing to meet emissions regulations. Now, it's open season to make the most fuel-inefficient vehicles imaginable, ensuring the V8 lives forever.

The laws are still on the books, but there's no longer any penalty for failing to meet them. In essence, it's open season on fuel economy in the good ol' U.S. of A."

Automotive News spoke with industry analysts about the rule change, who acknowledged that automakers may well just go back to producing less and less fuel-efficient cars. We've already seen Stellantis get a head start, giving the Ram 1500 its Hemi back (and a "symbol of protest" badge, because these trucks are largely bought out of spite), but it's not the only company likely to benefit here. Even Toyota, known for its rigorous adherence to fuel-efficiency standards, has a V8 prototype in the works.

 

[gfh77665]

I think testosterone levels will soar.

 

[eljefino]

Realistically, it means existing powertrains will continue to exist as long as marketable. I don't see much innovation happening towards designs that may, in a medium amount of time, become obsoleted by a change in administration.

So will get get a new Hemi that makes 5% more? Sure. Will we get a new V8 with different block, bore, tooling? Unlikely.

The balance of powertrains sold will better reflect what rich customers "want". Little gas sippers that thrifty folk "want" won't be subsidized as much.

 

[Vercingetorix]

No.
Americans can’t build competive cars now. Europeans and Asian manufacturers will continue to innovate and America will continue to produce outdated machinery.

 

[gfh77665]

No.
Americans can’t build competive cars now. Europeans and Asian manufacturers will continue to innovate and America will continue to produce outdated machinery.

I am fine with that. I don't need or want a computer on wheels.

 

[Cujet]

No.
Americans can’t build competive cars now. Europeans and Asian manufacturers will continue to innovate and America will continue to produce outdated machinery.

(kind of kidding of course) What are these American "Cars" you speak of? All I see are Trucks, SUV's and CUV's. Every third vehicle is an F150 around here. One would have to look long and hard to find a Corolla or Civic in my neighborhood.

In reality, the 480HP 5.0 Mustang still exists, and is an absolutely wonderful vehicle to solo 'road-trip' in. It does not fall short of in capability, comfort, or mechanical technology. There are few European cars in the $45K price range that can match performance. The BMW M240 (a car I love) might come closest. But it is down 100HP and real-world $10K more expensive.

 

[Nessism1]

No.
Americans can’t build competive cars now. Europeans and Asian manufacturers will continue to innovate and America will continue to produce outdated machinery.

You forgot the part that states..."In my opinion..."

 

[oil pan 4]

The penalty was almost non existent and was always passed on to the end consumer.

 

[JavierH19]

Realistically, it means existing powertrains will continue to exist as long as marketable. I don't see much innovation happening towards designs that may, in a medium amount of time, become obsoleted by a change in administration.

So will get get a new Hemi that makes 5% more? Sure. Will we get a new V8 with different block, bore, tooling? Unlikely.

The balance of powertrains sold will better reflect what rich customers "want". Little gas sippers that thrifty folk "want" won't be subsidized as much.

we've essentially hit the limit as far as combustion vehicle efficiency even 5 years ago. It's been the tiniest improvements with the biggest cost. We're efficient enough. In fact we can become more fuel efficient by getting rid of stupid regulations like the chicken tax and similar which makes automakers deliberately make less efficient trucks since it's cheaper that way.

 

[edyvw]

What do you think? Are the days of 0w5 and auto/start/stop turbo 1.0L engines a think of the past?

Per Jalopnik:

"If there's one thing Americans love, it's V8 engines. Big, fast, loud, they're the American definition of freedom wrapped into a gas-guzzling package. For a few years it looked like that gluttony for fuel could kill the V8, dooming Americans to immediate Stalinism and bread lines, but thankfully ..... has a solution: Ending penalties for failing to meet emissions regulations. Now, it's open season to make the most fuel-inefficient vehicles imaginable, ensuring the V8 lives forever.

The laws are still on the books, but there's no longer any penalty for failing to meet them. In essence, it's open season on fuel economy in the good ol' U.S. of A."

Automotive News spoke with industry analysts about the rule change, who acknowledged that automakers may well just go back to producing less and less fuel-efficient cars. We've already seen Stellantis get a head start, giving the Ram 1500 its Hemi back (and a "symbol of protest" badge, because these trucks are largely bought out of spite), but it's not the only company likely to benefit here. Even Toyota, known for its rigorous adherence to fuel-efficiency standards, has a V8 prototype in the works.

That is not how companies do business. EPA might not impose penalties, but then there is CARB. The problem with that logic is that CARB has 13 states, and one of them is the 4th largest economy in the world (CA), and another is the 8th largest (NY). So, companies won't design vehicles specifically for CARB states, and then others.

But, let's say hypothetically CARB does not exist. In 2028, another administration might come and impose old, or even stricter, emission standards. Companies want stability more than constant play between tough standards and lax standards. They will just play it safe.
So, no, you won't see the disappearance of Start/Stop, etc.

Now, as for V8, I don't think that is a consequence of the EPA, etc. It is market demand. Honda proved that you can have a V6 that meets all emission standards, while Toyota went with a 2.4-liter turbo for that segment. BMW continues to push the V8, and it doesn't have any issues meeting the US standards, as well as the Euro 7 standards. So, just because it is V8, does not mean you cannot meet strict standards. In the end, CAFE depends on the rest of your lineup.

 

[Nessism1]

I say, let the market decide.

Hybrids save gas. In places like California, where gas is expensive, the savings can be real. EV can save money also, if you have some place to charge at home. For people living where gas is cheap, I don't see the point of pushing high mpg vehicles down people's throat.

CAFE rules are such that manufactures have to sell high mpg vehicles at low profit margin, to offset low mpg vehicles that are larger, more powerful, more expensive, and more profitable.

 

[fantastic]

I'm all for fuel efficiency. The cost of ownership is something that is important for many reasons. It's a shame it seems we're going backwards. If we were allowed to buy certain foreign cars at a much cheaper discount we wouldn't need tax incentives either.

 

[userfriendly]

I think testosterone levels will soar.

My daughter drives a L5P 3500 Duramax with big tires to compensate.

 

[Vercingetorix]

Chicken tax is the only reason Ford and GM are still around.

 

[edyvw]

I say, let the market decide.

Hybrids save gas. In places like California, where gas is expensive, the savings can be real. EV can save money also, if you have some place to charge at home. For people living where gas is cheap, I don't see the point of pushing high mpg vehicles down people's throat.

CAFE rules are such that manufactures have to sell high mpg vehicles at low profit margin, to offset low mpg vehicles that are larger, more powerful, more expensive, and more profitable.

Let the market decide? Let's start with the chicken tax, and see what happens in 5 years.

They could do what Europe does with Euro norms. You would quickly find out that reliability in the real world means obsolete technology.
Toyota does not have a problem offering high-mpg vehicles and low-mpg vehicles. They make A LOT of money on both. Just one example.

 

[edyvw]

Chicken tax is the only reason Ford and GM are still around.

Yep. Or they would not end in problems in 70's onward. They would have to deliver good products.

 

[Nessism1]

Let the market decide? Let's start with the chicken tax, and see what happens in 5 years.

They could do what Europe does with Euro norms. You would quickly find out that reliability in the real world means obsolete technology.
Toyota does not have a problem offering high-mpg vehicles and low-mpg vehicles. They make A LOT of money on both. Just one example.

LOL, what maker of full size pickup trucks is going to challenge the big 3? Answer: NONE.

 

[Rmay635703]

All I would like to see are extremely reliable engines, I could care less about power and small fractional improvements in fuel economy.

My wish of coarse won’t happen.

 

[edyvw]

LOL, what maker of full size pickup trucks is going to challenge the big 3? Answer: NONE.

The Big 3? You mean one of them bankrupting bcs. poor performance, other one sold to foreign company because even government thought it would be easier to take political hit than save company. And third barely hanging.

 

[John105]

We definitely fit the bill as our incoming new car is 8 cyl, EPA 14, uses premium, and exactly what we want. Every dimension is the largest I’ve ever experienced in my life, and it’s 2025. It’s great to be alive!