Front End Alignment

Joined
Sep 13, 2010
Messages
606
Location
Central Texas
Want alignment after installing KYB struts and lower member with new ball joints and bushings. 2013 Fiesta SE. Car drives well but notice steering wheel is off center to the left a hair. Ford dealer in the next town over quoted $195. Is that the going rate now days? All components are new except sway bar links and bushings that are a year old. Tie rod ends are old but tight.

I matched the top strut bolt patterns left in the paint. Was advised to push the knuckle? all the way to opposite side before tightening. Tie rod ends were not unscrewed from tie rods.

How is camber adjusted. Do they bend the strut? What's the other adjustment (if any) called. That would be the angle towards the rear at the top of the suspension.
 
When some shop time is $200 plus per hour, $195 sounds fair in this day and age. How can any shop do it for much less?
They need to pay for the likely $30,000. plus alignment machine some how. I just don't understand why no one questions paying high taxes and dr fees etc. and then expects someone in the automotive business to work for free.
 
Camber is adjusted by slotted top strut mounts (if you have them) or by loosening the strut-to-knuckle bolts and pushing/ pulling this intersection.

Hint, changing the camber by loosening the bottom bolts will also change the toe. If you correct the toe via camber, you may have also fixed the camber. Some OE struts don't have elongated bolt holes here but their KYB replacements DO.

I DIY my own alignments with a laser level on the front tire bulges of 4 and 8 o'clock, pointing the laser at the rear tires. I try to just barely miss the tires by about 1/2 inch-- this gives me a little bit of toe and accounts for the laser head having a little "stuff" between it and the tire bulges.

Camber you can use the bubbles in the laser level directly, but ensure you're actually on flat ground. Find a concrete pad that gets puddles on it, LOL-- many driveways and nearly all roads are crowned. Some knowledge of trigonometry will come in handy.

Toe wears tires and camber pushes you around. Toe is more important to get right.
 
Ouch. When I got new tires last week on my truck, I had Discount Tire do their alignment as well, was only $89 but that would also only be a 2 wheel. Last 4 wheel alignment I had done was like $99 or $119 at an actual alignment/susp. shop.
 
Incidentally the upper strut mounts fore-and-aft alignment is called caster. This mostly affects the steering wheel returning to center, and is the least important of the three angles.
 
When some shop time is $200 plus per hour, $195 sounds fair in this day and age. How can any shop do it for much less?
They need to pay for the likely $30,000. plus alignment machine some how. I just don't understand why no one questions paying high taxes and dr fees etc. and then expects someone in the automotive business to work for free.
I don't think it's quite that way. Likely OP hasn't gotten an alignment in quite some time and wanted to know if $195 is reasonable. It even sounds high to me but the last time I got an alignment was at BMW in 2017. It was $140. Today, just went to the website, $325! So that means $195 is reasonable. BMW actually does all 4 wheels, and even if the car is all green, they move everything to the middle of the range and weight the driver's seat. They also break things on the vehicle and deny (this happened).
 
Want alignment after installing KYB struts and lower member with new ball joints and bushings. 2013 Fiesta SE. Car drives well but notice steering wheel is off center to the left a hair. Ford dealer in the next town over quoted $195. Is that the going rate now days? All components are new except sway bar links and bushings that are a year old. Tie rod ends are old but tight.

I matched the top strut bolt patterns left in the paint. Was advised to push the knuckle? all the way to opposite side before tightening. Tie rod ends were not unscrewed from tie rods.

How is camber adjusted. Do they bend the strut? What's the other adjustment (if any) called. That would be the angle towards the rear at the top of the suspension.
Dedicated alignment or indy mechanic. Ask if they have a Hunter balance and alignment machine. All of the top shops and both dealerships that I worked for had Hunter machines.
 
I DIY my own alignments with a laser level on the front tire bulges of 4 and 8 o'clock, pointing the laser at the rear tires. I try to just barely miss the tires by about 1/2 inch-- this gives me a little bit of toe and accounts for the laser head having a little "stuff" between it and the tire bulges.

I use fishing line, jackstands and geometry. Works very well. I get better alignments than taking it to a shop.
 
Dedicated alignment or indy mechanic. Ask if they have a Hunter balance and alignment machine. All of the top shops and both dealerships that I worked for had Hunter machines.
Curious--if a shop claims the machine's printer was down, when you ask for the report, is that an indicator that they didn't do the work? Or are the printers really problematic? We had a lifetime agreement at Firestone and more than 50% of the time that's what they said when we left the car all day and picked it up.
 
Incidentally the upper strut mounts fore-and-aft alignment is called caster. This mostly affects the steering wheel returning to center, and is the least important of the three angles.
Since steering wheel is off center that would indicated caster is off. How do they adjust caster? I replaced the lower arms with Moogs that included ball joints and bushings. I bet the new arms are not 100% identical to the originals. I did keep the originals.
 
Since steering wheel is off center that would indicated caster is off. How do they adjust caster? I replaced the lower arms with Moogs that included ball joints and bushings. I bet the new arms are not 100% identical to the originals. I did keep the originals.
You've drawn the wrong conclusion. Your toe is off. But you didn't adjust your toe. Your camber pushed in or pulled out the top of your spindle, which is located by the strut, tie rod end, and lower ball joint. Modifying one position moves the other two, relatively.

I've gotten good alignments (before I DIY) from an independent guy who that's his only job, it's on his shingle.
 
When some shop time is $200 plus per hour, $195 sounds fair in this day and age. How can any shop do it for much less?
They need to pay for the likely $30,000. plus alignment machine some how. I just don't understand why no one questions paying high taxes and dr fees etc. and then expects someone in the automotive business to work for free.
Paid $70 at the specialty shop a couple months ago. They have multiple set ups to do race cars and everything. They knocked it out quick and it was perfect. Firestone takes 1/2 day and its 50/50 if it drives straight with a straight steering wheel
 
When some shop time is $200 plus per hour, $195 sounds fair in this day and age. How can any shop do it for much less?
They need to pay for the likely $30,000. plus alignment machine some how. I just don't understand why no one questions paying high taxes and dr fees etc. and then expects someone in the automotive business to work for free.
As far a the dealership goes, I bet that machine has been paid for ages ago. Kinda like getting a $30,000 bill for a MRI. The MRI machine cost millions when it came out so the price was right. Now days the MRI is paid for and you can talk your bill down to about $1000. They will bill you let you pay $30,000 if you don't talk to them.

I buy tires from Discount Tires and am going there. Am hearing price for under $100. I am certain they will do a good job because they don't want to replace tires because of a poor job. Buy tires one place and get alignment somewhere else you wind up with 2 guys pointing fingers at each other.
 
Anyone with an alignment machine will have to pay for annual software updates to cover new cars. Bet it's more expensive than it has to be.

One thing you can do before you go is bust loose your tie rod jam nuts-- you'll put more effort into doing so than the tech who might just throw his hands up and say "they're frozen."
 
As far a the dealership goes, I bet that machine has been paid for ages ago. Kinda like getting a $30,000 bill for a MRI. The MRI machine cost millions when it came out so the price was right. Now days the MRI is paid for and you can talk your bill down to about $1000. They will bill you let you pay $30,000 if you don't talk to them.
Note that while what you say is true, a service agreement can easily cost $100k per year on some of the larger MRI machines. So there are ongoing maintenance costs. An alignment machine probably has minimal annual costs other than the occasional repair and updated software for newer cars.
 
InkJet yes. Lazer no.
Normally it’s in color so I assume it’s not a color laser. I was just wondering if it’s a way to not do a “lifetime alignment” and reserve the rack for paying customers. Never fall for the lifetime alignment as it clearly says on the paperwork it’s a check after the first.

The other ploy is when they have caller Id linked to say me. I’ve called 4 Firestones at once. Then they know to say the alignment machine is down. Then call back with my wife’s, and they schedule the appt. Cuz they think it’s a paying customer. Can’t make this up.

Edit Last thing I’ll point out. Firestone doesn’t have even have the VIN. Just year make model and license plate.

So the lifetime alignment is to collect the fee up front. It was about 3x the price of 1. It’s worth it to them if they can collect triple
And they’re basically done. When you come back they don’t do anything lol such a prime candidate for the evening news consumer advocate
 
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