Friend Got An Outrageous Quotation From A Chain Muffler-And-Brake Shop

[OVERKILL]

Is that to help cover Canadian Medicare?

Naw, that's under-funded because we are frittering away money on other nonsense, like this gem for a cool $1 billion dollars:

"This project aims to accelerate the transition from coal-powered to clean energy while ensuring a holistic, integrated, socially-inclusive and gender-equal just transition in recipient countries: India, Indonesia, Philippines and South Africa for the first phase of the project. There could be more recipient countries in following phases. The Climate Investment Funds - Accelerating Coal Transition (CIF – ACT) investment program is building support at the local level to reconsider the development of new coal plants and accelerate the retirement of existing coal assets. "

Government staffing costs have also increased by over $100 billion since the man with the fancy socks took office, so government largess is now a considerable factor.

 

[Auto tech]

We charge $375 per axle on disc brakes. Pads and rotors

 

[Hall]

I am a DIY for this reason, but I don't know how people think shops are supposed to work for free. Saying "I can do that for $xxx in parts" totally ignores the cost of labor and cost of the facility.

I roll my eyes every time someone compares DIY work to shop work. It's either ignorance, arrogance, or both. There are people who own 4 tools - a mini hammer, adjustable plier, and two screwdrivers (one flat, one Philips) - and there are still folks who suggest DIY auto work. Another given is if someone takes a 16 year old car to the dealer for oil changes or whatever (and while I would suggest finding an independent shop to save $$$, I respect that repair work is of zero interest to them), don't suggest they DIY anything beyond adding washer fluid, checking oil level, and maybe replacing air filters.

They don't want to quote $400 for pad slap then have to go back to the customer and ask for another $400 for calipers once its apart.

This is exactly why they're doing it. Ideally, they'd say "we're covering the worst case scenario and once we get it apart, if the calipers are okay, we'll leave yours on", but I think we all know what most shops will do.

Changing the brake fluid in the reservoir will do nothing. I tried that for years. The new fluid doesn't mix with the old it just sits at the top.

But that works PERFECTLY in a shop's interest. If someone actually checks, they'll see clean, clear fluid in the reservoir and the customer is none the wiser.

 

[Bailey28]

Why would you roll your eyes at folks who take the initiative to learn about and work on their vehicles? I don't think anyone here said any shop did particularly 'bad' work, the consensus here is that most shops recommend work that does not need to be done, and if it is 'done' most people can't tell if the shop actually did the work.

Most folks are tired of the large bill when they can get parts for much cheaper and do the labor themselves. Not to mention the shop marking up the parts that come in from the local auto parts warehouse on top of the $150/hour labor cost.

I am not an expert chef but that doesn't mean I eat out every meal.

 

[meep]

A car hobbyist will be more inclined to “perfect” work and will nit-pick more, and thats this board. Of course we suggest diy, it’s the population of BITOG. And diy guys while learning can also mess stuff up pretty badly too.

As DIY, brakes aren’t cheap anymore if you want any rotors beyond the good ole’ classic uncoated iron, such as a Bosch for $50. 4 of those, and a full set of higher quality pads, and 2L of fluid is easily $350, and easily $550 with higher end name brand materials. Sitting on a stool, with a jack and 4 jack stands, with a full fluid refresh is 2-3 hours on a good day. Let’s say i get $30 an hour, theres $75, and if you throw benefits in there and the cost of running a business, triple that to $90 an hour, which just hit $800 for both axles.

I still DIY because it fits my schedule better, I do want to save money, and I trust my own work within certain bounds. As I get older, I expect frankly that my standards will lower some, as I dont drive as hard and shift with abilities and needs. For now, time and “doing it right,” are the bigger drivers.

 

[researcher]

People can defend the higher prices of any auto shop but reality will eventually come crashing down. What reality? The one where the consumer with higher and higher prices will stop using those shops and those shops will go out of business, they did it to themselves with their ridiculous mark-ups. A shop quotes a crazy high price there are people that might pay that but eventually that will stop as prices get to the "buy another car" price levels.

And for those who want to tell me about insurance, overhead, etc. I'm talking a REASONABLE profit, not quoting $1000 just to flush the brake fluid. I'm using that as an extreme example to make my point. Let them keep this crazy greed up and yes it is greed. Marking a part up 4x is not normal profit at all. So.. again, let them go out of business who cares!

About those here as DIY members, I agree with them, since the amount of labor it would take to do brakes isn't that much. Even in the rust belt it might take a caliper replacement if the brake lube/service has been neglected. But don't try and start to make it normal that every auto shop repair is going to be $1000+ Inflation is high lately, but not that high.. Forget calling it inflation it's greed. Simple.

 

[goblin]

... Marking a part up 4x is not normal profit at all...

In the case of rear calipers for a 2017 Santa Fe graciously offered at $1400, the markup is probalby 20x in my book. The OEM ones are $250 a pop, the no-name ones that Mavis would use are probably RockAuto level.

All the more the reason for me to curse my local Midas. It's simply predatory. It boils down to the type of person. This sort of scum will be the same no matter where they work. They'd be pushing unneeded medication if they were doctors, unneeded surgeries if they were surgeons. I simply can't figure out how you can throw something if not life-changing, at least month-changing in someone's face like that. This is budget-altering level. I shiver for any poor person who fell for this, and at least part of the problem is that they are fattened by the habit of "...The worse that can happen is that the sucker refuses...".

There are still places in the world where a suggestion like that would win them a fist straight in the face.

I am not against chains, I have seen nothing but great service from Mavis for example. My local Town Fair Tire is also competent. They present their case if they have to sell you something. They don't tell you they are not allow to release your car.

 

[Number_35]

We bled all four corners this afternoon - went through two 450 ml bottles of DOT brake fluid (about one U.S. quart).

I was very happy that the bleeders were not seized.

The fluid was darker than I like, and the reservoir is still dirty - I think we'll do another service next April or May. Eight years was too long, even with only 75,000 in on the van.

The front brakes were fine - lots of meat left on the pads, the rotor faces looked good (and there's no pedal pulsation), and the calipers were not leaking.

I pulled the slide pins (which still moved well), cleaned off the old black lube, and applied silicone paste. The slide-pin boots were not cracked or torn and were still supple.

 

[JeffKeryk]

We bled all four corners this afternoon - went through two 450 ml bottles of DOT brake fluid (about one U.S. quart).

I was very happy that the bleeders were not seized.

The fluid was darker than I like, and the reservoir is still dirty - I think we'll do another service next April or May. Eight years was too long, even with only 75,000 in on the van.

The front brakes were fine - lots of meat left on the pads, the rotor faces looked good (and there's no pedal pulsation), and the calipers were not leaking.

I pulled the slide pins (which still moved well), cleaned off the old black lube, and applied silicone paste. The slide-pin boots were not cracked or torn and were still supple.

View attachment 303412View attachment 303413

Nice work, but what's all that reddish brown stuff?

 

[dishdude]

We bled all four corners this afternoon - went through two 450 ml bottles of DOT brake fluid (about one U.S. quart).

I was very happy that the bleeders were not seized.

The fluid was darker than I like, and the reservoir is still dirty - I think we'll do another service next April or May. Eight years was too long, even with only 75,000 in on the van.

The front brakes were fine - lots of meat left on the pads, the rotor faces looked good (and there's no pedal pulsation), and the calipers were not leaking.

I pulled the slide pins (which still moved well), cleaned off the old black lube, and applied silicone paste. The slide-pin boots were not cracked or torn and were still supple.

View attachment 303412View attachment 303413

Your intuition was correct, nothing wrong with those brakes.

 

[Mainia]

$200 to flush the brakes, a bit high but I would want to be there to see then do all 4 corners with fluid coming out.

NO, "nope, pass on front left because the bleeder screw is jammed tight and it's going to break off", no one will see me skip that will they.............says the mechanic in his head. If he does all 4 corners and gets a good solid 4 brake bleed it is a fair price. Now the brakes, are rip off.

 

[Number_35]

Nice work, but what's all that reddish brown stuff?

It's reverse alchemy - an Fe-C alloy, exposed to a simple solution of NaCl dissolved in H2O, is transformed into FeO (iron oxide).

It actually isn't bad for a 2016 (sold in 2017) in these parts.

 

[Patrick0525]

We charge $375 per axle on disc brakes. Pads and rotors

Recently I got my 14 Venza rear axle pads and rotors installed for $284 total. I supplied the PowerStop Z23 carbon/ceramic pads, Mission Automotive silicone grease, ceramalube pad grease, caliper hardware, boots and discontinued Hawks Performance Talon cross drilled rotors. Parts were $114 and labor $170.

 

[Jay73]

A friend is lending his 2016 Dodge Grand Caravan (< 80,000 km) to his daughter for a few weeks while she (the daughter) looks for a 2nd vehicle.

He wanted to do an oil change before turning it over to her, suspecting the hood won't get opened for the next few weeks. We were planning to do it at my place, but he got a coupon from a nearby chain muffler-and-brake shop advertising a full synthetic oil change for $49.99. (All prices I'm quoting here are in C$.)

My all-in (12% tax included) cost of materials to do an oil change is about $40 for 5 litres of SuperTech and an oil filter, so he was looking at not much more ($49.99 + 12% tax = $55.99) to have the shop do it.

He had the work done this morning, and dropped by a few minutes ago to show me the invoice. Unsurprisingly, the invoice exceeded the expected $56 ...

They sold him a couple of expensive wiper blades as well, and I think there were some other oil-change-related charges - disposal fee, and some other stuff. He was in for over $110.

But the shocker was the stuff they "found" that needed repair.

1. Brake fluid flush - c. $200. Yes, the fluid is brownish - I would change it on my vehicle. (In fact, each oil change I usually syringe out most of the fluid in the reservoir, so in the vehicles I look after it usually stays pretty clean.) Anyway, he's picking up some DOT 3 brake fluid, and we'll do a brake bleed tomorrow, likely for < $25.

2. Front brakes - They quoted about $1200 (plus tax!) to do the front brakes (rotors, pads, and calipers). I inspected the brakes a few months ago when we did the seasonal tire changeover. They were fine then. We'll have another look at them tomorrow, but I suspect they'll still be fine. The van has only been driven parts of two winters - the rest of the mileage has mostly been put on in the summer. Therefore, I'd be surprised if the calipers are rusty (the usual cause of failure here). On these vans, the rear brakes tend to wear out first. Strange proportioning, I suppose. We did the change the rear brakes earlier this year (pads and rotors), so at least the shop had enough decency to not say they needed replacing.)

Anyway, the $49.99 oil change could have quite quickly become > $1600. Buyer beware!

In my early twenties I began my automotive career which included independent shops and chain shops. Back then if the jiffy lube was charging $24.99 for an oil change the chain shop beginning with an F would do it for $9.99 just to get the car in the bay. Once the car is in the bay I'm instructed ya see that other mechanic standing there I pay him whether he stands there or works so every car that you do a $9.99 oil change on you find something wrong with it to make commission for yourself and so I can put that other guy to work. I'm good recommending stuff if it's needed but when high pressure just going for the sale not so much. I left there shortly after and I managed an independent shop where customers came in with 100% trust on my recommendations and continued to bring the same vehicles back again and again, referrals etc... Rather have lifetime honest business than screw somebody over once and all trust out the window. Managed maybe 5-6 years there now been a truck driver for 27ish years. Still do automotive repairs but just for myself, friends, family.

 

[Wolfshead]

I'm shocked! Shocked, I tell you!

Well it is Shocktober !

 

[4WD]

Naw, that's under-funded because we are frittering away money on other nonsense, like this gem for a cool $1 billion dollars:

"This project aims to accelerate the transition from coal-powered to clean energy while ensuring a holistic, integrated, socially-inclusive and gender-equal just transition in recipient countries: India, Indonesia, Philippines and South Africa for the first phase of the project. There could be more recipient countries in following phases. The Climate Investment Funds - Accelerating Coal Transition (CIF – ACT) investment program is building support at the local level to reconsider the development of new coal plants and accelerate the retirement of existing coal assets. "

Government staffing costs have also increased by over $100 billion since the man with the fancy socks took office, so government largess is now a considerable factor.

Let not your heart be troubled - any coal that Indonesia doesn’t use - China will

 

[Number_35]

The price is not the problem - the problem is that a place that tries to wing new calipers at north of $1k prices will be likely to also sell you a French flush, and if you don't know the matchstick check - you'll never know.
If they cheat you on one thing - why not on the other.

A French flush being, of course, siphoning out the brake fluid tank with a syringe and filling it with fresh fluid.

There has been spirited debate here on BITOG about whether or not the fluid mixes (Brownian motion) and thus whether or not it helps to syringe brake fluid out of the master cylinder and replace it with fresh.

I don't know the answer but do it anyway, aware that it doesn't take the place of an actual 4-corner bleed.

Regardless, I like to start with fresh fluid in the MC so as to see the transition from dirty fluid to fresh at each caliper.

 

[Donald]

In August 2023 I did pads and rotors all around on our '07 Dodge Grand Caravan. I bought the parts locally. Total cost with tax was not much over C$300. (Shipping costs on rotors can eat up the RA savings pretty fast.)

I try and get rotors on Amazon with free shipping. Usually can get pads also.

The issue with Amazon. And calipers is I am pretty sure Amazon does not want to deal with cores so that makes it difficult for Amazon to find suppliers of reman calipers.

 

[Donald]

The price is not the problem - the problem is that a place that tries to wing new calipers at north of $1k prices will be likely to also sell you a French flush, and if you don't know the matchstick check - you'll never know.
If they cheat you on one thing - why not on the other.

A French flush being, of course, siphoning out the brake fluid tank with a syringe and filling it with fresh fluid.

I agree. I am not positive but I think it's difficult to determine if a new caliper is needed until you get into the brake job. Unless if course the pistons are hitting the rotor.

But people get scared when someone mentions there might be a problem with their brakes. They will agree to get everything replaced so brakes are perfect again.

 

[Auto tech]

Recently I got my 14 Venza rear axle pads and rotors installed for $284 total. I supplied the PowerStop Z23 carbon/ceramic pads, Mission Automotive silicone grease, ceramalube pad grease, caliper hardware, boots and discontinued Hawks Performance Talon cross drilled rotors. Parts were $114 and labor $170.

The price I stated was with the shop supplying all the parts with the warranty