Could easily change the oil yourselves also. Could also cook a steak yourself, but I'm sure everyone has spent the extra money to go out to eat.
Friend Got An Outrageous Quotation From A Chain Muffler-And-Brake Shop
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Ugh.
I believe public health care accounts for about 1/3 of our governments' (federal and provincial) total spending - but I've also heard that the U.S. federal government spends about 30% more per capita on public health care than Canada.
I'd need to verify those numbers - they're old figures from deep in my memory banks.
Absolutely! This is a way I can help a friend who is not well off. It's a bonus that I enjoy wrenching.
It used to be worse - at one time the federal sales tax was 7%, for a combined sales tax of 14%.
Around 1991 the Federal sales tax replaced a higher hidden tax on manufacturers.
As Robert Heinlein said, TANSTAAFL - There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. Someone has to pay for roads, schools, hospitals, law enforcement, national parks, etc.
Even if the brake pads were worn maybe unevenly I would think it's pretty hard to determine if it needs new calipers until you take things apart
I read years ago that the business model of the quick oil change places was $75 or $100 when the oil change was $29?
In NY the quick oil change places typically don't have a NYS "repair" license so only certain things they can do. Brakes is not one. But filters and fluids they can do.
I read years ago that the business model of the quick oil change places was $75 or $100 when the oil change was $29?
In NY the quick oil change places typically don't have a NYS "repair" license so only certain things they can do. Brakes is not one. But filters and fluids they can do.
Them and Firestone stores are awful. They also hit women and old folks with scare tactics. The glorified brake flush is a total profit moneymaker that has little benefit. I took my 6 month old GMC Sierra to a local Firestone store for the state inspection. The service writer (shameless crook) started telling me my battery was failing and wouldn’t last. “Better take care of that now” he said. I told him my truck was new and still covered under the GM warranty, better do your homework before trying that on every customer. He just walked off…A friend is lending his 2016 Dodge Grand Caravan (< 80,000 km) to his daughter for a few weeks while she (the daughter) looks for a 2nd vehicle.
He wanted to do an oil change before turning it over to her, suspecting the hood won't get opened for the next few weeks. We were planning to do it at my place, but he got a coupon from a nearby chain muffler-and-brake shop advertising a full synthetic oil change for $49.99. (All prices I'm quoting here are in C$.)
My all-in (12% tax included) cost of materials to do an oil change is about $40 for 5 litres of SuperTech and an oil filter, so he was looking at not much more ($49.99 + 12% tax = $55.99) to have the shop do it.
He had the work done this morning, and dropped by a few minutes ago to show me the invoice. Unsurprisingly, the invoice exceeded the expected $56 ...
They sold him a couple of expensive wiper blades as well, and I think there were some other oil-change-related charges - disposal fee, and some other stuff. He was in for over $110.
But the shocker was the stuff they "found" that needed repair.
1. Brake fluid flush - c. $200.Yes, the fluid is brownish - I would change it on my vehicle. (In fact, each oil change I usually syringe out most of the fluid in the reservoir, so in the vehicles I look after it usually stays pretty clean.) Anyway, he's picking up some DOT 3 brake fluid, and we'll do a brake bleed tomorrow, likely for < $25.
2. Front brakes - They quoted about $1200 (plus tax!) to do the front brakes (rotors, pads, and calipers). I inspected the brakes a few months ago when we did the seasonal tire changeover. They were fine then. We'll have another look at them tomorrow, but I suspect they'll still be fine. The van has only been driven parts of two winters - the rest of the mileage has mostly been put on in the summer. Therefore, I'd be surprised if the calipers are rusty (the usual cause of failure here). On these vans, the rear brakes tend to wear out first. Strange proportioning, I suppose. We did the change the rear brakes earlier this year (pads and rotors), so at least the shop had enough decency to not say they needed replacing.)
Anyway, the $49.99 oil change could have quite quickly become > $1600. Buyer beware!
I am a DIY for this reason, but I don't know how people think shops are supposed to work for free. Saying "I can do that for $xxx in parts" totally ignores the cost of labor and cost of the facility.
USD <$80 for oil change and wiper blades is more than fair. Labor is not free.
Brake fluid flush for For USD $140 is about right. Sucking brake fluid out with a turkey baster is not the same thing at all - you need to flush the lines and calipers. The only real way to know if it needs it is a test strip.
Front brakes for $864 is a bit much but I guess I would need to see the parts cost. I have heard of much worse.
Now I agree if none of this was at all needed then its bad form. It also irks me when shops mark up aftermarket parts 3X and stack labor - like brake flush and brake repair both at full price / time - but they all do it. Flat rate "shop supplies" is crap also. They can calculate time exactly on every other little item but flat rate 5% of bill for "shop supplies" is pure garbage margin improvement.
USD <$80 for oil change and wiper blades is more than fair. Labor is not free.
Brake fluid flush for For USD $140 is about right. Sucking brake fluid out with a turkey baster is not the same thing at all - you need to flush the lines and calipers. The only real way to know if it needs it is a test strip.
Front brakes for $864 is a bit much but I guess I would need to see the parts cost. I have heard of much worse.
Now I agree if none of this was at all needed then its bad form. It also irks me when shops mark up aftermarket parts 3X and stack labor - like brake flush and brake repair both at full price / time - but they all do it. Flat rate "shop supplies" is crap also. They can calculate time exactly on every other little item but flat rate 5% of bill for "shop supplies" is pure garbage margin improvement.
We're planning to do a brake-fluid flush and inspect the front brakes today.
IF the front brakes need work, and especially IF the calipers are leaking, I'll eat a big helping of humble pie.
I wonder whether this particular franchise has had a lot of comebacks due to bad calipers, and therefore replaces them as part of any brake job.
(I date myself here, but back in my days in the tune-up and oil-change shop, I was initially surprised we always replaced spark plugs rather than inspecting and cleaning them. Perhaps this shop has the same policy w.r.t. calipers.)
They don't want to quote $400 for pad slap then have to go back to the customer and ask for another $400 for calipers once its apart. No its not right. However if they do not quote the caliper up front and did that to someone here someone would immediately post that the shop tried to rip them off and upsell once there car was apart and they were vulnerable and everyone would pile on.
The reason most shops are crooked is this sort of thing. Honest mechanics get tired of un knowledgeable customers yelling at them and they go work for a fleet or county or whatever. Your left with the shills.
I understand how it would be way more palatable to the customer for the shop to quote calipers (if required) up front, and then find out they (the calipers) were not required, with the approximate (based on the quoted prices) $500 reduction in cost.
However, the quotation was written up as though calipers were definitely required.
We will find out ...
I like the internet mechanics that do it right, like RR, Eric O. They are up front during the diagnostic and repair process. When it comes to billing they explain every charge while not gouging customers on shop supplies or unnecessary disposal fees.
Unfortunately in today's society you can almost be certain these chains and dealers will attempt to rip you off.
Unfortunately in today's society you can almost be certain these chains and dealers will attempt to rip you off.
I can tell you at least here in Michigan, you see bad calipers quite often. More than you would think. Some models are worse than others, but frozen slides are a big thing. Sometimes you can heat, work away at them and get them cleaned up with new hardware, but sometimes it just doesn't happen. It seems like we see a lot of Caravan/T&C's with rear caliper issues. Piston blown out, leaking, over extended, completely seized in the bracket. Fronts are less common, although it is still a thing. Generally if most of the parts stores have calipers in stock, it's because they can be a common issue.
Please report back
I don't want to generalize about all chains or shops - there are some very good ones out there. We will see about this particular shop.
Don't get me wrong - I am the last one to defend a crooked shop. However if you have never actually worked in one you have no idea how things roll, especially with car owner repair experts that read something on faceplant.
Perhaps if they got them apart and the calipers were fine they would not charge? We will never know - even if unlikely.
Also - what was the likelihood that the customer was waiting for the service. Car apart without calipers quoted, now its $400 more and a 2 hour longer wait while the parts get delivered, if there actually in stock. Maybe easier just to sell them.
Maybe they look OK now - but will they last another Manitoba winter? Do you want to do this job again in 18 months?
There are plenty of things that can go wrong. So yes, if you don't want to pay - DIY. But don't expect the shop to work for free either.
Yes, they are and I was considering buying one over a Honda or Toyota but I read somewhere they maybe close to going bankrupt, among several others. Just can't keep up with the big companies. Their cars are as good or better.
Changing the brake fluid in the reservoir will do nothing. I tried that for years. The new fluid doesn't mix with the old it just sits at the top. ChrisFix has a good YT video showing a one man brake bleeder. Very easy to do. Just pump out each wheel cylinder until you get clean fluid. Every 30K miles. Or suck it out with a MityVac. You will never have a problem with brake components.1. Brake fluid flush - c. $200.
I get it. I don't expect them to work for free.
I did work in an honest shop long ago, and saw all sorts of outrageous behaviour on the part of customers. It's a 2-way street.
I also understand the upcharge for shop supplies.
Personal example:
A couple of years ago a friend came over thinking his car needed a new battery because the charging-system light had come on. The battery was OK, but I diagnosed a failed alternator. I removed the alternator, drove over to a trusted rebuilder and dropped it off. Drove back the next day to pick it up, and reinstalled it.
The rebuilder charged me $180 all-in.
My friend gave me $200, thinking this was generous.
The extra $20 did not cover my costs of driving 50 km (two round-trip a to the rebuilder) plus shop towels plus penetrating oil, hand cleaner, etc.
He's a friend, and my goal is not to make money, but at least to cover my costs.
A shop is there to make money. Profit is not a bad word, but I expect the shop to be honest.
I was telling the story on Thursday. First time my 1998 Maxima had an exhaust leak, around 2008, the Midas manager said we could replace everything for $600 (2008), or we could repair it for $70. Which would you like? $70? Good choice, we’ll have you out in an hour. And he went around to 3 other customers with such proposals.
Suffice it to say, next time I was back he was no longer the manager. This is a franchise, owner needs profits.
But, so does an indie, where the above can still happen, as when the exhaust does break 4 years later, they want to be the one legitimately replacing it for the customers.
Ah yes, you can shut them up real right quick if you start asking them for a cut of sales. I think I see a managers soul leave his body when I did that.
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