Fresh Trans Rebuild...Additive Question

[wilbilt]

New here, but have been reading (and searching) the posts.

I have a question regarding the LubeGard Platinum additive. I just intalled a rebuilt TH700r4 in my old '88 Chevy pickup. The trans was professionally rebuilt for a friend's motorhome (upgraded hard parts, "RV" shift kit, etc).

The RV was sold before the trans was installed, and I bought the trans for substantially less than what he paid to have it refurbished. The rebuilder included a bottle of LubeGard with it and recommended it be used as part of the initial fill.

I filled the unit with a name-brand Dexron fluid but did not include the additive, as I have always been skeptical of such things. It claims to modify "generic" fluids to a friction-modified status, such as ATF+3, etc.

If my trans doesn't require a friction-modified fluid, why would I want this? Should I just toss it and consider myself better off?

 

[unDummy]

No, don't toss it. It is an excellent additive.

If you are using a mineral ATF, use it in your transmission.

If you are using a synthetic, save it for another vehicle.

There is more to lubegard then friction modification.

 

[wilbilt]

Thanks for that reply. I have been considering using it, (the trans has less than 100 miles on it at this point), but opinions I have seen posted seem to be about 50-50 on whether it is beneficial or not.

I guess what I am mostly concerned about is if it could actually be harmful. The shop that did the rebuild has a good reputation, so I guess that would be a plus.

 

[Whitewolf]

A good OEM recommended ATF should contain all the additives that are needed for the application. They are a very fine balance of components. Aftermarket additives may upset that balance and you are correct in thinking that it is possible that they could have a negative effect.

 

[unDummy]

Upset nothing.
Sorry, but some ATFs aren't all that good. And, the OEMs are so pathetic that they need to constantly update their specs. Those OEM's just don't ever set high enough goals.

Platinum benefits:
Prevents overheating
Inhibits fluid oxidation and foaming.
Instantly eliminates torque converter shudders and clutch pack chatters & shudders.
Dramatically reduces friction & wear on metal parts and internal components.
Ensures proper shifts.
Frees stuck valves & keeps them free.
Will not alter the crucial phosphorous or sulfur balance in your transmission fluid.
Will not harm yellow metals.
Ash Free.
Extends fluid change intervals.

 

[Whitewolf]

Sorry you are wrong.
When aftermarket products are added the people using them have no idea what kind of a chemical concoction they have created because firstly they don't know what the chemistry of the fluid is in the first place and secondly they don't know what they added.
The use of aftermarket 'contaminants' can also void warranty coverage.

 

[unDummy]

Thats what we need here. Another anti-everything warranty paranoid fear monger.

 

[Whitewolf]

It took you a long time to think that up!

 

[wilbilt]

Well, I have to be honest and state I poured it in this morning (before reading Whitewolf's initial comment).

I was hesitant, because I believe that many of the "cure-all" additives are nothing more than snake oil. In this case, the Lubegard was recommended by the rebuilder, who was kind enough to extend the warranty to me even though I am not the original purchaser.

I can relate one observation; when the trans was initially installed, there was a definite TCC-related shudder at marginal lockup speeds. This could be related to the fact that it is a newly rebuilt unit, but after adding the Lubegard this morning, the shudder is gone.

That doesn't mean the clutches won't turn to mush in 10K miles, but the fact it was recommended by the people providing the warranty makes me feel better.

 

[unDummy]

If your ATF was full, you might be overfilled by the pint of lubegard. Hope you drained a little before tossing in the lubegard. And yes, it works that well in curing shudder.

Wilbilt, what ATF did you fill this transmission with?
I find that simply using a better ATF will also prevent shudder and provide better all temp performance.

Don't worry. The clutches won't turn to mush. As long as you don't overheat the transmission, or try to push a gazillion HP through it, it'll last a long time with reasonable ATF change intervals.

 

[wilbilt]

The stick is showing maybe 1/8" over full when hot. I've done worse...

The fluid is Valvoline's latest version of Dexron, bought in gallon containers because it was cheaper that way. The initial fill (filled the converter before instaling it) was right at 10 quarts.

I am an easy driver. The pickup is used mostly as a commuter (30-50 miles/day on the flat) with some light towing maybe twice a year.

I never really thought about using a synthetic fluid. The TH700R4 is not exactly the pinnacle of transmission design, LOL

 

[Whitewolf]

The point that unDummy is making is what I was talking about last night. It's better to just get yoursef a better quality ATF. Putting an additive in there, if it contains FM, will help to fix shudder but it will also probably lower the torque capacity in the clutches. However, I agree with unDummy in saying that if you don't do anything silly with it you should be OK. My suggestion is that next time you change the fluid you go to a DEXRON-VI product. You can google the various GM releases outlining the performance impovements compared to DEXRON-III.

 

[unDummy]

1/4" overfilled is no big deal with most transmissions. Some actually work a little better being overfilled(especially in cold climates). Your 1/8" is nothing to worry about.

Nothing wrong with the Valvoline cheap ATF. Next time upgrade to the Maxlife or their MerconV. The added cost will be offset by not needing Lubegard($15 a pint). Any of the multivehicle and MerconV ATFs have the additional HFM level to prevent shudder.

Consider a full machine or cooler line flush every 2 years or refill every year.

The 700r4 should be as good as the rebuilder. Depending on what was upgraded, it should live a long time.

 

[Ray H]

I can't see anything good coming from pouring in a conversion fluid for transmissions requiring HFMs into a transmission already spec'd for Dexron III. Lubegard does make a red-bottle "protectant" that contains no friction modifiers. If I felt the need to fortify the recommended ATF against heat and take advantage of Lubegard's ester technology, that's what I would've chosen.

 

[unDummy]

Platinum can be used with any ATF.
And, a VB modified transmission will have quicker shifts and more holding power, which should reduce any side effects from using some extra HFM's.
Its the old, slipping, tired, soon to die, never maintained, million mile transmissions that should not use the HFM additives. This thread started with a new modded rebuild.
And, like any product, serious overdosing could be detrimental. Its not like a case of the product was provided?

It cured his shudder. Thats good enough for me.
Besides the LXE ester oil, Platinum also has their AW/EP additive, Synergol, that the other Lubegard products don't have.
Lubegard also has a bunch of OEM approvals. So, it not some fly by night snake oil infomercial additive.

I'm actually surprised that Lubegard doesn't blend their own ATF's. They do make a PSF.

His transmission should not need to use a better fluid as it only requires Dexron, which was used. But, I will always preach to use the best that you can afford even if the transmission doesn't require the HFM ATFs. This is why I push the Amsoil, Redline, Mobil1, RoyalPurple and other synthetic ATFs. They are better then they need to be and you pay for it. Has any new OEM spec resulted in a cheaper fluid? WS costs more then TIV. MerconV costs more then Mercon. ATF+4 cost more then ATF+3. DexronVI costs more then DexronIII. Its like the OEM is afraid to shock the consumer by producing a true ultra quality ATF. They'll just slowly add a little more testing time or quality.

Since the platinum came with the transmission, it was smart to use. It was also recommended by his rebuilder, someone who constantly tears down, repairs, modifies, rebuilds, and installs transmissions. Trust me, if something caused issues, the rebuilder wouldn't use it.

Dexron-VI is not available everywhere yet. Not everyone wants to deal with stealership parts dept price markups. When all the local stores carry it, I might recommend it more. I also don't see it as a super fluid. Its just another step up the spec ladder.
How soon before Dexron--VIb, VId, VIe, VIh, VII, or VIIIII comes out? IIIh only lasted 2-3 years. GM doesn't set their goals high enough.
Dexron6 is thinner and might let you get an extra mile or two out of a tank of fuel. Wow, some of us already got that just by using boutique synthetic fluids everywhere, way before the OEM decided to step of the group baseoil ladder.

 

[wilbilt]

Honestly, I did not know there were alternatives to the manufacturer-spec fluid. I am a relatively savvy guy, I spent about 20 years as an ASE-certified tech (brakes and alignment), and have done a couple of my own AT rebuilds without issue.

This situation came about because I could not afford to have the vehicle in downtime for more than a day or two.

I must say that the few days spent browsing this site have given me a much different outlook on lubricating fluids. The collective knowledge here is truly astounding.

Heading back on topic,

I will use a better fluid for the next fill; is there any precedence for a very short initial change for transmissions newly assembled, as there is for rebuilt engines?

With new engines, I would commonly change the oil and filter at about 100 miles, just to be sure of getting rid of the assembly "crud".

Will in NorCal

 

[unDummy]

Don't feel bad. I find that most techs in the field have too many other things to worry about, vs what fluid can be substituted.

If there are many new components, they will need to break in, and that wear will be present.
Most rebuilds see many reused components(already broken in). But, I'll assume that your TC is new, and that some of those new 'hard components' will have some wear-in.

So, if you have oil OCD as required by this website, then feel free to flush it out at 10k. But, you mentioned your driving style, have the Platinum, have an upgraded transmission, and rarely tow. I wouldn't fear running that ATF to 30k. Just add a filter. Magnefine inline filter is easiest to install, will filter out the wear, and should last that 30k.

Noone has every hurt an engine or transmission by performing extra maintenance.

And, decide on what you want to do for future maintenance. The full $ynthetics will last a lot longer. But, a real inline filter should be used(transdapt, permacool, B&M, racor). The cheaper mineral ATFs should be changed more often, and are cheap enough to do so.
The blends are a compromise.

You should also look at the rest of the vehicle. Will the engine, rearend, frame, body, last as long as the transmission? Create a goal for the vehicle and adjust maintenance for that goal. Since I keep cars forever, I toss out the owners manual, and thumb my nose at anyone telling me not to use synthetics, and finger salute those against reasonable intervals.

ATF should be kept at a safe temp. So, if you tow ever, make sure that you have enough cooling and sump capacity. IMO, most stock Atf cooling is inadequate. Dealer or factory installed ATF coolers are merely adequate. A temp guage is the only way to know for sure.

 

[boxcartommie22]

i always use a bottle of platinum with my redline atf d-4..listen to undummy he knows his stuff!!

 

[freeze12]

Most Transmission rebuilders use LubeGard when rebuilding a transmission, they use it in spray form for lubeing valve bodies etc.LubeGard is a very highly regarded product in the industry. Just call a few trans. shops & ask.

 

[wilbilt]

Quote:

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You should also look at the rest of the vehicle. Will the engine, rearend, frame, body, last as long as the transmission? Create a goal for the vehicle and adjust maintenance for that goal. Since I keep cars forever, I toss out the owners manual, and thumb my nose at anyone telling me not to use synthetics, and finger salute those against reasonable intervals.

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Funny you should mention that. I tend to keep vehicles forever as well. I bought this truck back in January for $800 (with an ailing trans). The vehicle has 290K miles on it, but the body is in good shape-zero rust.

I intend to go through it from bottom to top as resources permit and drive it. The engine supposedly has about 50K on it, and looks pretty good (no leaks, no sludge).

The vehicle this one replaced had a trans temp gauge in it, but I forgot to remove the gauge before getting rid of it...