Fram Ultra / Endurance Users - Move On to What ?

[Glenda W.]

Well, not quite.

Here's why it doesn't bother me much: the media of the Ultras is good enough that the fraction that DOES go through the filter is sufficient to keep the oil pretty clean.

I posted about this elsewhere, but let's say for purposes of illustration that an Ultra is leaking 20% of the flow through a defect. That's an unrealistically high number based on the huge amount of media flow area vs the tiny pinch of leakage, but let's stick with 20% just to examine the seriousness of the leakage.

Ultra media is 99%+ at 20 micron. Let's say the it's only 99% or ß100. At 25 microns like other filters, it's might be ß500 or greater. Certainly at least ß300.

The Microgard Selects that I use are rated at 25 micron and 99% or ß100.


Because the base media of the Ultra is rated at 5 microns smaller, the effective efficiency at 25 microns will be at least triple to as high as 10x or more greater than the microgard at the same 25 micron reference point

So if the Ultra is merely triple the efficiency at 25 microns, it means that the internal leakage of the Ultra would have to be on the order of 66% in order for the ultra to be merely as good as a Microgard Select that doesn't leak at all.

Based on the posted "flashlight test" pictures I've seen, there's not the remotest chance that 2/3rds of the flow is preferring to go through that crevice instead of all that media area available. Which means that even a leaking ultra is still as good or better than many other good filters on the market.

I disagree. First the Microgard Select is rated at 99.9%@25, 99.5%@20, and 98.7%@15 microns. Secondly I measured the leaking gaps each at .75”x.020” conservatively. The leakage was substantial when calculated in that thread. Which also showed up with particle counts worse than a Boss.

The fact that visible particles are seen past the gaps debunks two theories. First that not much oil is bypassing the media and second the multi-pass cleanup theory. Even the known low efficiency filters don’t show visible particles in the center tube including cleanable racing filters. It honestly alarms me that some are still ok with visible particles on the inlet side of the media.

 

[Hohn]

Haven't been a Fram fan since the mid 90's, but that is a story for another day...

I use Mopar filters on the T&C, Fleetguard on the Ram and Super Tech on the Jeep. I keep it simple.

Just my $0.02

I swore off Fram until BITOG convinced me the Ultras were the way to go.

Keeping up with the BITOG Zeitgeist can be confusing if you (like me) go months to years without posting here or reading.

 

[ZeeOSix]

So your saying Donaldson white and or blue have BOSS efficiency? Dunno if this is good or bad.

The efficiencies shown in post 26 are not great. 50% @ 23u and 95% @ 40u for instance.

 

[Hohn]

I disagree. First the Microgard Select is rated at 99.9%@25, 99.5%@20, and 98.7%@15 microns. Secondly I measured the leaking gaps each at .75”x.020” conservatively. The leakage was substantial when calculated in that thread. Which also showed up with particle counts worse than a Boss.

The fact that visible particles are seen past the gaps debunks two theories. First that not much oil is bypassing the media and second the multi-pass cleanup theory. Even the known low efficiency filters don’t show visible particles in the center tube including cleanable racing filters. It honestly alarms me that some are still ok with visible particles on the inlet side of the media.

That's good info on the efficiency for the other micron specs. Can you link me to the threads where the leakage was calculated? My own calculations follow, and I'd like to compare them.

The stated dimensions you show have a cross sectional area of 0.015 sq in. This is equivalent in sectional area to an orifice of about 0.0044" diameter. With that sectional area, a standard orifice will flow 0.13L/min at a pressure drop of 8.8psi. At 0.15 L/min, the pressure drop across the orifice is 11.8psi, and we're flirting with being in bypass anyway. This is using a 10cSt oil with a density of 0.86.

Of course, a standard orifice actually flow much better than a narrow slit because the orifice has a much lower perimeter to area ratio. A narrow slit is much more restrictive for a given sectional area because it has a high perimeter to area ratio, and there is boundary layer effect at the perimeter.

Which means that if the Ultra is in fact showing a gap of 0.75" by 0.020" in a filter with a nominal bypass point of 12psi, then 10 cSt oil will never "leak" more than 150cc/min. Remember, the only pressure encouraging leaking is the restriction of the media. Thus, the leakage should be calculated not on oil pump pressure, but rather on media delta P.

Compared to the flow of oil going through the media and the entire lube system, I consider 150cc/min to be a rounding error and not significant.

Earlier I showed that the even if 20% of the lube pump flow was going through the leak path, the filter can still provide good performance. But based on the dimensions you have furnished, it appears that that actual amount of leakage is more like <5%, not 20%.



As I said before, the "leaking Ultra" is vastly overblown. If you have Ultras, use them with confidence.

 

[tnt_motorsports]

I swore off Fram until BITOG convinced me the Ultras were the way to go.

Yeah, I'm still not convinced... I was witness to a very bad experience with an engine failure and it was with a Fram. That was enough to ruin me for life. I did pick one up 2 weeks ago when I was prepping to do the Jeep oil change, but ultimately put it back for the Super Tech. I'd like a ST3600 but they don't appear to be made anymore, so I settled for the ST3614.

Just my $0.02

 

[Fair enough]

I disagree. First the Microgard Select is rated at 99.9%@25, 99.5%@20, and 98.7%@15 microns. Secondly I measured the leaking gaps each at .75”x.020” conservatively. The leakage was substantial when calculated in that thread. Which also showed up with particle counts worse than a Boss.

The fact that visible particles are seen past the gaps debunks two theories. First that not much oil is bypassing the media and second the multi-pass cleanup theory. Even the known low efficiency filters don’t show visible particles in the center tube including cleanable racing filters. It honestly alarms me that some are still ok with visible particles on the inlet side of the media.

Particles are deposited past the gaps, please explain, I don’t get how that happens. I know in a river-lake situation the river slows upon entering the lake allowing heavier rocks and particles to fall out of suspension. Is that your theory inside the center tube?
The other one is nothing has been debunked about multiple passes, bypass filtration is even a topic here. That’s how they work. Capturing more than is generated leads to the best oil filtration, even removes soot.

 

[nwjones18]

I ordered a dozen Champ XL's for my fleet from Rockauto. Never has any issues with the Ultra's though.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Earlier I showed that the even if 20% of the lube pump flow was going through the leak path, the filter can still provide good performance. But based on the dimensions you have furnished, it appears that that actual amount of leakage is more like <5%, not 20%.

The calculation on the example @Glenda W. is talking about showed to be leaking around 15% iirc, and that was using a much reduced flow coefficient due to the leak being two long rectangular orifices. Think the calculations are buried in @Glenda W.'s long thread someplace.

By the very definition of the Beta Ratio (the ratio of upstream vs downstream particle counts), an example of 100,000 particles upstream divided by 1,333 particles downstream is Beta 75 (98.7%, aka: "Absolute" efficiency). See Beta Ratio table below.

If a filter is 99% efficient for 20u and larger particles, and if it's leaking 15% of the flow, then it basically means the down stream particle count of all particles 20u and larger just got 15% higher, and the efficiency went down to 84%. If 50% of the dirty oil leaked by the media, the efficiency would basically be 49%. It's easy to see when looking at a Beta Ratio chart showing upstream vs downstream particles.

 

[Nessism1]

I wish you guys would make up your mind on what filters are good.

So, what USA made filter is most trustworthy?

 

[nthach]

OEM or PG-made. I rarely run oil beyond 6K.

 

[Nessism1]

OEM or PG-made. I rarely run oil beyond 6K.

There you go with all the acronyms again. What is PG?

 

[nthach]

There you go with all the acronyms again. What is PG?

Premium Guard. The current supplier for STP(AutoZone), O’Reilly and Advance.

 

[FlyingVan]

Adam, the Donaldson filter in 3614 size is 99% at 17 microns, which is one of the best. The other sizes are not as efficient. As we saw in the earlier post, the 7317 size is 95% at 40 microns.

 

[Glenda W.]

That's good info on the efficiency for the other micron specs. Can you link me to the threads where the leakage was calculated? My own calculations follow, and I'd like to compare them.

The stated dimensions you show have a cross sectional area of 0.015 sq in. This is equivalent in sectional area to an orifice of about 0.0044" diameter. With that sectional area, a standard orifice will flow 0.13L/min at a pressure drop of 8.8psi. At 0.15 L/min, the pressure drop across the orifice is 11.8psi, and we're flirting with being in bypass anyway. This is using a 10cSt oil with a density of 0.86.

Of course, a standard orifice actually flow much better than a narrow slit because the orifice has a much lower perimeter to area ratio. A narrow slit is much more restrictive for a given sectional area because it has a high perimeter to area ratio, and there is boundary layer effect at the perimeter.

Which means that if the Ultra is in fact showing a gap of 0.75" by 0.020" in a filter with a nominal bypass point of 12psi, then 10 cSt oil will never "leak" more than 150cc/min. Remember, the only pressure encouraging leaking is the restriction of the media. Thus, the leakage should be calculated not on oil pump pressure, but rather on media delta P.

Compared to the flow of oil going through the media and the entire lube system, I consider 150cc/min to be a rounding error and not significant.

Earlier I showed that the even if 20% of the lube pump flow was going through the leak path, the filter can still provide good performance. But based on the dimensions you have furnished, it appears that that actual amount of leakage is more like <5%, not 20%.



As I said before, the "leaking Ultra" is vastly overblown. If you have Ultras, use them with confidence.

It’s in the Endurance mega thread. The fact that visual particles are on the clean side of the filter indicates a severely compromised efficiency. You just don’t see this in normal c&p’s. The field data is not matching the calculated data.

 

[Glenda W.]

Particles are deposited past the gaps, please explain, I don’t get how that happens. I know in a river-lake situation the river slows upon entering the lake allowing heavier rocks and particles to fall out of suspension. Is that your theory inside the center tube?
The other one is nothing has been debunked about multiple passes, bypass filtration is even a topic here. That’s how they work. Capturing more than is generated leads to the best oil filtration, even removes soot.

There’s a c&p of an Ultra with ripples. The OP and many others pointed out visual particles on the clean side of the filter around the gaps. Not something we normally see on even low efficiency filters.

Some people claim that the leak doesn’t matter because it gets cleaned up on the next pass. The visual particles on the clean side of the filter are debunking this theory.

 

[Hohn]

It’s in the Endurance mega thread. The fact that visual particles are on the clean side of the filter indicates a severely compromised efficiency. You just don’t see this in normal c&p’s. The field data is not matching the calculated data.

I have to go read that thread. Probably need to pop some corn.

 

[Glenda W.]

I have to go read that thread. Probably need to pop some corn.

It would have been a good thread but a few people side tracked it to over 1,000 posts….the ultra c&p with particles on the clean side is more recent and after this Endurance thread.

Thread 'Fram Endurance Flashlight Test in canister'

Sep 4, 2024

Tested on a new Fram Endurance FE7317 purchased at Walmart.

The question was “Does the Fram Endrance still have a gap in the bypass spring while under pressure?”

The answer is yes on this one. Also has a gap outside of the canister as Whip City and Sayjac have already found. I also carefully put some drops of oil on the gap areas to check every 10 minutes. It only took seconds for the oil to leak through with gravity.

• Glenda W.
• Replies: 1,162
• Forum: Engine Oil Filters

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[Hohn]

If you can help me find the pic of ultra with dirties on the clean, I’d appreciate it.

 

[Glenda W.]

If you can help me find the pic of ultra with dirties on the clean, I’d appreciate it.

I just looked all the way back to Nov. and can’t for the life of me find the thread. I even checked my posts because I remember commenting on it. Sorry, not sure if it was removed?

 

[Hohn]

I just looked all the way back to Nov. and can’t for the life of me find the thread. I even checked my posts because I remember commenting on it. Sorry, not sure if it was removed?

No worries, I appreciate it.

I'm still skeptical that this is a serious problem, but I will definitely C&P the Ultra I'm using now.