Fram titanium causing tap/knock on cold starts

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May 5, 2013
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I’m an avid Toyota OEM filter user. I usually buy in bulk and pay under $5 including shipping. Anyways I was in a bind and out of filters so I went to advance and picked up a fram titanium. I will admit that iVe usually gotten a light tap for the first 10 seconds of start up on days below freezing after the engine sat all night, but it’s never been anything of concern and I figured it was the self adjusting hydraulic valve train or whatever they’re called. With the fram filter it sounds like a rod knock that lasts for a solid minute or so and I get it every time the engine is cold, even if it sat for say 3-4 hours. I’m not really a oil filter guy, but I have heard here and there claims of how Toyota filters don’t have the best filter efficiency. I do vaguely remember seeing some decent efficiency claims on the fram box. Is this the down side of using higher efficiency filters? I am using redline 5w30 which I know runs heavy and borderline 40wt but again this wasn’t a problem with the OEM filter. I assume there is less flow so the top end runs dry longer or is this assumption wrong? I was thinking perhaps it could be a bad anti drain valve, but what are the chances the one fram filter I use in the past 10 years has a bad drain valve. Overall I’m disappointed with this filter, especially given how it costs $15. I will most likely switch back to OEM once they come in. I mainly want to share my experience and hear what you guys think.
 
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I assume there is less flow so the top end runs dry longer or is this assumption wrong? I was thinking perhaps it could be a bad anti drain valve, but what are the chances the one fram filter I use in the past 10 years has a bad drain valve.
I sounds like it could be leaky ADBV. It's not due to "flow restriction" of the oil filter. Besides ... positive displacement oil pump.

What's the outside air temperature of these cold starts?
 
I sounds like it could be leaky ADBV. It's not due to "flow restriction" of the oil filter. Besides ... positive displacement oil pump.

What's the outside air temperature of these cold starts?
Yup, this. If the pump has to re-fill the filter, and the passages above it, first, things are going to be noisier until that's done.
 
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Yup, this. If the pump has to re-fill the filter first, things are going to be noisier until that's done.
Plus, if the ADBV leaks and causes oil above the filter to leak out, it could also mean a lifter might be half collapsed on start-up. Every engine will behave differently if the oil drains out of the oiling system.
 
Maybe more restrictive then the OEM
No engine with a PD oil pump is that sensitive. The oiling system is about 15 times more restrictive than the average oil filter.

Fram Ultra and Fram Titanium are basically the same filters. They aren't considered flow restrictive. Ultra and WIX XP are better flowers than the others in this test. 5 PSI of delta-p at high flow rate isn't much flow restriction. The oiling system on an engine would be at around 75-80 PSI in this situation.

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No engine with a PD oil pump is that sensitive. The oiling system is about 15 times more restrictive than the average oil filter.

Fram Ultra and Fram Titanium are basically the same filters. They aren't considered flow restrictive. Ultra and WIX XP are better flowers than the others in this test. 5 PSI of delta-p at high flow rate isn't much flow restriction. The oiling system on an engine would be at around 75-80 PSI in this situation.

View attachment 86685
For the 834th time but apparently not frequently enough.
 
Plus, if the ADBV leaks and causes oil above the filter to leak out, it could also mean a lifter might be half collapsed on start-up. Every engine will behave differently if the oil drains out of the oiling system.
Yes, see my edit, lol, you must have been typing while I edited.
 
I would get a new filter from Advance or anywhere right away, any kind, put it on with the same oil inside. Return the one here drained and wiped clean if it’s worth the trouble. It just requires experimentation to eliminate possibilities one by one.
 
I’m an avid Toyota OEM filter user. I usually buy in bulk and pay under $5 including shipping. Anyways I was in a bind and out of filters so I went to advance and picked up a fram titanium. I will admit that iVe usually gotten a light tap for the first 10 seconds of start up on days below freezing after the engine sat all night, but it’s never been anything of concern and I figured it was the self adjusting hydraulic valve train or whatever they’re called. With the fram filter it sounds like a rod knock that lasts for a solid minute or so and I get it every time the engine is cold, even if it sat for say 3-4 hours. I’m not really a oil filter guy, but I have heard here and there claims of how Toyota filters don’t have the best filter efficiency. I do vaguely remember seeing some decent efficiency claims on the fram box. Is this the down side of using higher efficiency filters? I am using redline 5w30 which I know runs heavy and borderline 40wt but again this wasn’t a problem with the OEM filter. I assume there is less flow so the top end runs dry longer or is this assumption wrong? I was thinking perhaps it could be a bad anti drain valve, but what are the chances the one fram filter I use in the past 10 years has a bad drain valve. Overall I’m disappointed with this filter, especially given how it costs $15. I will most likely switch back to OEM once they come in. I mainly want to share my experience and hear what you guys think.
I'm thinking it's the by pass valve not opening fast enough to let oil in. It could be by design and not the fault of the filter. I have a 2003 Honda and had a similar issue with Bosh filter 3323 during cold start or if the car has been setting for awhile, would make this noise on start. I posted this topic a month or two ago, a few views speculated that I had a bad anti-drain valve too. I never had this issue with the Honda A-01 filter. Honda stop making the A-01 filters and I refuse to buy the A-02 filters which by the way are also made by Fram too. I switch to Wix 57356 filter and never heard the noise again. Here's some specs from Rock Auto re these oil filters, I'm not a mechanic or engineer. I only know that I don't like hearing noises when the car start up in the morning. Bosch 3323 relief valve setting 14-18. Wix 57356 BP Valve Setting 8 - 11. There's no way of me verifying these numbers. I've read on the internet that a lower number is better for cars starting first thing in the morning. I would switch the filter asap and see if the noise is gone.
 
Not enough info >>>>>
1) What year/make/model of vehicle ?
2) What model # is the fram titanium ?
3) Does this vehicle need a ADBV (how is filter mounted) ?
4) Are you using the recommended oil. I see 0w20 is rec. but 5w30 is being used. Is that the problem ?
 
I’m an avid Toyota OEM filter user. I usually buy in bulk and pay under $5 including shipping. Anyways I was in a bind and out of filters so I went to advance and picked up a fram titanium. I will admit that iVe usually gotten a light tap for the first 10 seconds of start up on days below freezing after the engine sat all night, but it’s never been anything of concern and I figured it was the self adjusting hydraulic valve train or whatever they’re called. With the fram filter it sounds like a rod knock that lasts for a solid minute or so and I get it every time the engine is cold, even if it sat for say 3-4 hours. I’m not really a oil filter guy, but I have heard here and there claims of how Toyota filters don’t have the best filter efficiency. I do vaguely remember seeing some decent efficiency claims on the fram box. Is this the down side of using higher efficiency filters? I am using redline 5w30 which I know runs heavy and borderline 40wt but again this wasn’t a problem with the OEM filter. I assume there is less flow so the top end runs dry longer or is this assumption wrong? I was thinking perhaps it could be a bad anti drain valve, but what are the chances the one fram filter I use in the past 10 years has a bad drain valve. Overall I’m disappointed with this filter, especially given how it costs $15. I will most likely switch back to OEM once they come in. I mainly want to share my experience and hear what you guys think.
So switch back to OEM, see if that fixes it. Have an extra on hand next time.
 
I'm thinking it's the by pass valve not opening fast enough to let oil in. It could be by design and not the fault of the filter. I have a 2003 Honda and had a similar issue with Bosh filter 3323 during cold start or if the car has been setting for awhile, would make this noise on start. I posted this topic a month or two ago, a few views speculated that I had a bad anti-drain valve too. I never had this issue with the Honda A-01 filter. Honda stop making the A-01 filters and I refuse to buy the A-02 filters which by the way are also made by Fram too. I switch to Wix 57356 filter and never heard the noise again. Here's some specs from Rock Auto re these oil filters, I'm not a mechanic or engineer. I only know that I don't like hearing noises when the car start up in the morning. Bosch 3323 relief valve setting 14-18. Wix 57356 BP Valve Setting 8 - 11. There's no way of me verifying these numbers. I've read on the internet that a lower number is better for cars starting first thing in the morning. I would switch the filter asap and see if the noise is gone.

The bypass settings (which sends unfiltered oil through the engine) should be set by the OEM and matched by the filter manufacturer, there should be no deviation from that spec.

The bypass is intended only to function when the media can flow insufficient oil that might create excessive differential pressure that could cause the media to fail. This is what the bypass valve acts on, the differential pressure, the pressure difference between the inlet and outlet sides of the filter. So, let's say on a cold start the pump makes 60psi pushing against the filter and isn't on the relief. The feed side of filter will see that 60psi, however, that media imposes a restriction as the cold, thick oil is being forced through it. If this pressure drop stays within the bypass spec, say the outlet side is 50psi, the bypass will stay closed. On the other hand, if the media can't flow that volume and stay within that differential pressure limit, the bypass will open and some of the oil (unfiltered) will bypass the media to reduce that differential.
 
Not enough info >>>>>
1) What year/make/model of vehicle ?
2) What model # is the fram titanium ?
3) Does this vehicle need a ADBV (how is filter mounted) ?
4) Are you using the recommended oil. I see 0w20 is rec. but 5w30 is being used. Is that the problem ?
Based on a previous uoa thread he started, 2016 Toyota Tacoma 2.7 4cyl. Since I was curious as well. OEM filters here are 4.25 from the dealer parts dept. He mentioned his previous oil change price of $13.50 with Kirkland synthetic and an oem filter. Where this filter surpassed that alone.
 
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