Fram PH9837 Cut open. Ugh!

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Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Any chance there could be a coolant leak? I would be more worried about the condition of the oil and the internals of the engine than the oil filter (no matter the brand). The fact there is so much gunk in the filter is indicative of either a problem with the engine (PCV in good shape?), wrong oil choices, or the need to shorten the OCI (even further).


1. Good call on the possible coolant leak. Service records show "Crossover Pipe Gasket Leak" at 64k miles. This is a coolant system pipe, not to be confused with an exhaust crossover pipe. Dealer did diagnostics including dye test for leaks at that time and replaced the gaskets. All done under warranty. I will keep a close watch on this.

Coincidentally, I did a flush and refill of the coolant at the same time. My tester saidit was only protected down to 0 degrees. It gets colder than that in Michigan, so I wanted to bump up the protection.

2. PCV valve is another good suggestion. I don't know where it is located on this vehicle, so it's time to research that.

3. The filter is threads up, dome down, so that is why the crud settled there.

4. I do see that one dealer filled it with 5w20 (Honda 3.5 spec), rather than the 5w30 (GM 3.5 spec) several times. But that wouldn't explain why my first two oil changes were clean.
I would have expected to see something.
 
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Originally Posted By: Dallas69
This filter was the victim of the condition of the oil.
Not the other way around.
The filter did its job.
No brand would look good in this situation.


^^ This x 100.. with a slight tweak:

"This filter was the victim of the condition of the engine"

What you have there is an engine that was full of crud, and oil that has started to loosen said crud from the engine.

It's pure stupidity to think that a filter that was loaded with crud created that crud. The fact is, this cheap filter has done admirably at grabbing and holding the crud.

I would even go so far as to say that the oil you've been running has done a respectable job at getting the crud loose from the engine and into the filter.

If it were me, I'd either stick with this combination for a while, or make the move to PYB or an HDEO with a little MMO mixed in, for extra cleaning.. Maybe run a few shorter OCIs as well.
 
Originally Posted By: Spartanfool
1. Good call on the possible coolant leak. Service records show "Crossover Pipe Gasket Leak" at 64k miles. This is a coolant system pipe, not to be confused with an exhaust crossover pipe. Dealer did diagnostics including dye test for leaks at that time and replaced the gaskets. All done under warranty. I will keep a close watch on this.

Coincidentally, I did a flush and refill of the coolant at the same time. My tester saidit was only protected down to 0 degrees. It gets colder than that in Michigan, so I wanted to bump up the protection.

2. PCV valve is another good suggestion. I don't know where it is located on this vehicle, so it's time to research that.

3. The filter is threads up, dome down, so that is why the crud settled there.

4. I do see that one dealer filled it with 5w20 (Honda 3.5 spec), rather than the 5w30 (GM 3.5 spec) several times. But that wouldn't explain why my first two oil changes were clean.
I would have expected to see something.
I would opine that you are just now seeing the crud break loose that was created by the coolant leak at 64K. I would keep a close eye on the crud and do some short OCIs with some good oil and perhaps a cleaning agent as well. In fact, I would consider pulling one of the valve covers just to see how bad it is.
 
Originally Posted By: car51
Either M1 TDT or some PP 5w30. Maybe some EDGE 5w30


M1 TDT 5w40 already installed. I have enough for the next oil change as well.
 
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
I would opine that you are just now seeing the crud break loose that was created by the coolant leak at 64K.


Having owned a bunch of GM cars, I would opine he quite possibly has yet another gasket leak again.
frown.gif
The only one I still own, the old warhorse Lumina, is recovering from round 3 and surprisingly it is starting to clean up a bit.

Your theory is sound however and I hope for his sake that is indeed it.
 
Originally Posted By: Spartanfool
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Any chance there could be a coolant leak?


1. Good call on the possible coolant leak. Service records show "Crossover Pipe Gasket Leak" at 64k miles. This is a coolant system pipe, not to be confused with an exhaust crossover pipe. Dealer did diagnostics including dye test for leaks at that time and replaced the gaskets. All done under warranty. I will keep a close watch on this.


Have you noticed the coolant level in the overflow tank going down at all?
 
Although i would never ever use that filter you can't really blame the filter for that crud situation... But even so it's better to use a quality filter like wix... (napa gold is good if you could get them at a good price) But most wix filters are of good quality and they seem to flow very well. The only filter i would use from fram is the ultra that filter is built nicely and fram says it flows very well even if i may believe differently. I am using a couple of ultras and so far i have no complaints but wont know for sure until i get some uoa's and cut them open for inspection.. A/C delco (non e core) is good also.
 
I agree that the dealer using 5w20 once doesn't explain the heavy varnish type coating on the filter can. Doubt it as any real factor at all.

As I stated in my first post a coolant intrusion might be a suspect. If true, in this case it would also coincide with the wavy pleating of the media. And a google search reveals the crossover pipe (as opposed to more common LIM) to be a weak point for coolant leak issues in this engine.

Given the severity of the varnish/crud in the can, safe bet imo, the engine internals may have a similar appearance.
 
I'm having trouble sorting this all out. They believe in dealer oil changes, but NextGen on clearance and Fram filters were used. Did they provide the oil and filter to the dealer for each change?
Originally Posted By: Spartanfool
This was a Fram PH9837 with Valvoline Next Gen 5w30. 2970 miles in 9 months.
Previous was same...NextGen w/ 9837. 3000 miles.
First change was NextGen with Purolator Pure One. 3000 miles.

All short trip severe service, less than 5 miles to work.


Originally Posted By: Spartanfool
3. Previous two oil changes used that $1 Clearance sale Next Gen. Previous two changes looked fine, no wavy pleats, no crud in the can.
...
5. Auntie and Uncle both work for GM Corporate, so they are true believers in Dealer service. 3000, maybe 5000 miles tops....whatever the dealer wants. They spent almost $80 to get the wiper blades replaced once.


My impression is the same as CT8's:
Originally Posted By: CT8
The oil was run too long.

There is a very real possibility that the dealer or tech decided that the short OCI's are silly and just did nothing or only changed the filter. The fact the same type of filter was used for two changes in a row adds to my suspicion.
 
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
I dont think this filter looks bad at all.
21.gif


In fact, I'd run of these with confidence.


Did you see the filter element? You'd really run this with confidence? Less than a 3k run and the entire element looks like it was run over with a truck. Not to mention there is barely any media. The OCOD is so inconsistent I don't know how anyone can use one with any confidence.



THIS you can use with confidence. OCOD put to shame by a store brand Microguard.

r2w1zn.jpg
 
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
I dont think this filter looks bad at all.
21.gif


In fact, I'd run of these with confidence.


Did you see the filter element? You'd really run this with confidence? Less than a 3k run and the entire element looks like it was run over with a truck. Not to mention there is barely any media. The OCOD is so inconsistent I don't know how anyone can use one with any confidence.



THIS you can use with confidence.

r2w1zn.jpg



One was less than $4. The other was over $12.

I just posted why I made the switch to WIX btw.

*Compare that Fram to a Purolator Classic (same tiered filter) then we will talk.
 
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This Mann filter was over $12 at AAP.

A $4 Fram wont tear. Cant say the same about a $4 Purolator Classic.
 
$3.79 buys you a better filter. Who said anything about a Mann or Purolator? I am comparing MicroGard to OCOD.

 
Sorry that looked like the Mann filter that I posted.

You need to understand that,

A.) the engine is dirty
B.) therefore, the engine is hard on filters
C.) and it's not the filters fault.

I like WIX too, to tell you the truth, I don't think it would come out of that engine looking any better than this Fram did.

This engine needs short intervals with a quality oil, loads of highway miles and perhaps a tuneup or maintenance. Any filter will do.
 
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Sorry that looked like the Mann filter that I posted.



This is what I am getting at. The $3.79 filter looks like a $12 filter, and the OCOD at $6.19 looks awful.
 
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Sorry that looked like the Mann filter that I posted.



This is what I am getting at. The $3.79 filter looks like a $12 filter, and the OCOD at $6.19 looks awful.


$3.68 at your nearest Walmart. I am afraid you are missing my point which is..

Originally Posted By: dlundblad

A.) the engine is dirty
B.) therefore, the engine is hard on filters
C.) and it's not the filters fault.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/FRAM-Extra-Guard-Oil-Filter-PH9837/16817196
 
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