Fram PH16 Cut Open

[cp3]

Our friends are up from PEI for a vacation this week and he wanted to change the oil. He hasn't done a change since he got the van, had to use a piece of pipe on the socket to get the drain plug out and the filter didn't want to move. Before I could save it, he poked a screwdriver into it to get it loose. No idea how long or what oil was in it.

Figured I'd cut it open anyway....

Typical Fram. Wavy pleats and the end caps were rough, ADBV was pretty stiff. All in all not too bad considering I'm pretty sure it was on there for a while.

The carnage from the screwdriver....

 

[ltslimjim]

Well, you did say he poked it with a screw driver...

Curious, how long has he had the van before servicing?

 

[Silver02ex]

Not bad, it still did it's job. I wouldn't be too concern about the wavy pleats.

 

[steve20]

"""Typical Fram. Wavy pleats and the end caps were rough, ADBV was pretty stiff"""

That has to be one of the most un-enlightened statements I've read in the last few months. Do you not realize wavy pleats have absolutely NOTHING to do with the brand of filter? Look at some previous posts-you'll find the exhaulted P1 has more pics of wavy and even more interesting, TORN pleats than any other manufacturer
Thanks for the pictures

 

[cp3]

Enlighten me bro!

Notice the period after Fram. Please, search and find a post where I bash Fram filters.

OH! How about after your quote where I said "All in all not too bad considering I'm pretty sure it was on there for a while."

And, you're welcome.

 

[river_rat]

Not much media for such a large filter can.

 

[postjeeprcr]

Originally Posted By: river_rat
Not much media for such a large filter can.


Are you talking about number of pleats or height of pleats?

Out of all the PH16 equivalent filters I have cut open, only one had more "height" when it came to filter media than a PH16.

 

[river_rat]

Originally Posted By: postjeeprcr
Are you talking about number of pleats or height of pleats?

The number of pleats.
Fram PH16 (right) vs. Purolator L14670 (left) = about 118 square inches of filter media for the Fram and about 209 for the Purolator.
It was like I got this big filter to pass that thick 20W-50 Volkswagen oil and all I paid for was this big can.

The little Wix 51348 I use for my 4 cylinder pickup has about 100 square inches in that little canister...almost as much as the big Fram and runs a lot thinner oil year round.

 

[MetalSlug]

holy

that one of the worse filter I ever seen.

 

[urchin]

Yes that filter looks terrible..

I like that comparo between the Purolator and the Fram that shows the [censored] media area and construction of the Fram.

It is clear that when it comes to value for the money FRAM is one of the worst buys you can make. But it makes their marketing company happy.

 

[Donald]

I am looking at the first picture and assume the relief valve is the item on the lower right. I think I see a coil spring down inside it? I looked at a CarQuest cutaway of their filter vs a Fram and the Fram did not have the coil spring as part of the relief valve. The clerk said that when the Fram goes into pressure relief mode (could happen at startup on a sub zero day) it pushes a piece of bent metal for the relief, but that piece of bent metal may not come back to normal bent shape after the relief is over.

 

[dvldoc]

Seriously why would you even buy Fram? It's not just the paper end caps it's the fact it has far less filtering surface than a filter half it's size.

Yeah it will do the job but obviously for not as long and not as well. But of course 99% of people have no clue what's in a oil filter so it really does not matter.

 

[cp3]

Originally Posted By: Donald
I am looking at the first picture and assume the relief valve is the item on the lower right. I think I see a coil spring down inside it? I looked at a CarQuest cutaway of their filter vs a Fram and the Fram did not have the coil spring as part of the relief valve. The clerk said that when the Fram goes into pressure relief mode (could happen at startup on a sub zero day) it pushes a piece of bent metal for the relief, but that piece of bent metal may not come back to normal bent shape after the relief is over.


Yes, the bypass is built into the leaf spring and has a coil spring in it. Seemed to still be functional as far as it wasn't stuck.

 

[ltslimjim]

You know...if I was going to use a Fram...I'd only use an Extended Guard, and for that money I'd just by a Napa Gold or Wix, maybe a Bosch Premium or Purolator P1. Even an AC Delco, not ecore(preference), or a Classic Purolator is a better deal.

The classic Purolator makes the Fram look like the cheapest filter you could get for w/e application it goes on, and I bet the Classic is on par price wise or cheaper than the Fram!

 

[river_rat]

Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
...and I bet the Classic is on par price wise or cheaper than the Fram!

Bingo!

 

[Eddie]

The PH16 is one of my favorites. I've probably put 500,000 miles on these filters with never a failure. Most run 5-6,000 miles each.

 

[river_rat]

Originally Posted By: Eddie
The PH16 is one of my favorites. I've probably put 500,000 miles on these filters with never a failure. Most run 5-6,000 miles each.

What do you mean by "failure"? Minimun engine wear or nothing actually exploded?
Was this 500,000 miles on the same engine?
I'm sure millions of miles are made on these by millions of driver without any obvious incidents, but Purolator doesn't think that Fram design has enough media for the application, or they would have not have put in more. I'm going to agree with Purolator here for my $4.

 

[ltslimjim]

Originally Posted By: river_rat
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
...and I bet the Classic is on par price wise or cheaper than the Fram!

Bingo!


...and to clarify. I was simply referring to the 2 you cut open, same app no question better option, IMO.

 

[motorguy222]

Originally Posted By: river_rat
Originally Posted By: Eddie
The PH16 is one of my favorites. I've probably put 500,000 miles on these filters with never a failure. Most run 5-6,000 miles each.

What do you mean by "failure"? Minimun engine wear or nothing actually exploded?
Was this 500,000 miles on the same engine?
I'm sure millions of miles are made on these by millions of driver without any obvious incidents, but Purolator doesn't think that Fram design has enough media for the application, or they would have not have put in more. I'm going to agree with Purolator here for my $4.


I am using a Purolator filter now.

The thing is,does more filter material make a difference in a basic filter? The real difference is what is the material made of,more or less material may not make a real difference,depending on what the matarial is.

The point I am trying to make is this,while one filter may have more material than another,does the more material change anything? If filter "A" has X amount of a cellulose/fiberglass blend and filter "B" has X amount cellulose but more of it,does that make it a better filter?

I seems that many get tripped up on one filter having X amount of material over another filter while not thinking about what the element is actually made of.A combination material may work better than plain cellulose and take less material to do sn the other hand,the cellulose may do as well but use more.

We seem to get the 'more is better' mentality in our heads and forget to consider what the actual material is made of.

As I said,I am using a Purolator,I havent used a Fram for many years but that is because I dont like the small inlet holes that Frams use.I at one time used Frams and very seldom anything else and I never had any problems.

It seems that some here want to imply that using Frams will shorten an engines life but there is no proof of such.Fram sells millions of filters every year and if they were as bad as some say,there would be cars with blown engines and Fram oil filters lined up and down the sides of the roads.

Are there better filters at a cheaper price? Probably.Will Fram ruin your engine? You most likely will have no more of a chance having an engine failure with a Fram than you will with any other filter.

 

[river_rat]

Ya. It won't hurt to use it. I still have a PH 16 and will use it, but I feel kind of ripped off. I could have gotten away with a smaller filter with at least as much media.