Fram PH16 cut open 5000KM
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Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: stchman
That Fram did its job, it filtered oil. I find it funny that people hate on Fram orange oil filters when there are millions of them on the road filtering oil.
Has there ever been a documented case where using a Fram caused an engine to fail. I know some of the first e-core filters had their plastic cage collapse and cause some engine damage, but have never heard of a case about a Fram oil filter.
And everyone hates on Purolator and there are millions of them on the road filtering oil (except the amount that leaks through the tear!) and there isn't one documented case of an engine failure there either.
It's obvious the orange can and TG were designed to be built as cheaply as possible. I'd run one (along with a Puro) if it came with an oil change special but I would never choose one if the option for a Wix was there. The Ultra is a great filter, and we'll see how the newly redesigned Puros hold up, but there is no defending an orange can or E-core.
Your claim is that EVERY Puro leaks? That's delusional.
Originally Posted By: stchman
That Fram did its job, it filtered oil. I find it funny that people hate on Fram orange oil filters when there are millions of them on the road filtering oil.
Has there ever been a documented case where using a Fram caused an engine to fail. I know some of the first e-core filters had their plastic cage collapse and cause some engine damage, but have never heard of a case about a Fram oil filter.
And everyone hates on Purolator and there are millions of them on the road filtering oil (except the amount that leaks through the tear!) and there isn't one documented case of an engine failure there either.
It's obvious the orange can and TG were designed to be built as cheaply as possible. I'd run one (along with a Puro) if it came with an oil change special but I would never choose one if the option for a Wix was there. The Ultra is a great filter, and we'll see how the newly redesigned Puros hold up, but there is no defending an orange can or E-core.
Your claim is that EVERY Puro leaks? That's delusional.
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
For around the same price you could have used a quality Wix.. That filter looks scary for around 3100 miles.. WOW and someone thinks it actually looks good?? Oh boy! It looks like a cardboard notebook left out in the rain!
In my opinion Fram builds one good filter and that is the Ultra... Pictures don't lie.
That's the Framboy's idea of a "good looking filter"? ROFL.
That said, if this was a Purolator you'd probably be jumping for joy it at least didn't tear.
Based on my experience with my FOUR Camrys using Puros, I wouldn't be delusional enough to expect tears, jack.
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
For around the same price you could have used a quality Wix.. That filter looks scary for around 3100 miles.. WOW and someone thinks it actually looks good?? Oh boy! It looks like a cardboard notebook left out in the rain!
In my opinion Fram builds one good filter and that is the Ultra... Pictures don't lie.
That's the Framboy's idea of a "good looking filter"? ROFL.
That said, if this was a Purolator you'd probably be jumping for joy it at least didn't tear.
Based on my experience with my FOUR Camrys using Puros, I wouldn't be delusional enough to expect tears, jack.
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Originally Posted By: stchman
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: Farmer
Wix filters increased in price here lately. I was buying 51515s for $5.90 and now they're $7. Still, better than the everyday price of a orange can of $7.50 at Canadian Tire or Walmart.
Then buy from Rockauto.
That Fram is a real POS!
That Fram did its job, it filtered oil. I find it funny that people hate on Fram orange oil filters when there are millions of them on the road filtering oil.
Has there ever been a documented case where using a Fram caused an engine to fail. I know some of the first e-core filters had their plastic cage collapse and cause some engine damage, but have never heard of a case about a Fram oil filter.
Then you haven't seen the Minimoparoilfilter study site which was created by an EE who lost a Mopar engine to a Fram which shredded.
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: Farmer
Wix filters increased in price here lately. I was buying 51515s for $5.90 and now they're $7. Still, better than the everyday price of a orange can of $7.50 at Canadian Tire or Walmart.
Then buy from Rockauto.
That Fram is a real POS!
That Fram did its job, it filtered oil. I find it funny that people hate on Fram orange oil filters when there are millions of them on the road filtering oil.
Has there ever been a documented case where using a Fram caused an engine to fail. I know some of the first e-core filters had their plastic cage collapse and cause some engine damage, but have never heard of a case about a Fram oil filter.
Then you haven't seen the Minimoparoilfilter study site which was created by an EE who lost a Mopar engine to a Fram which shredded.
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Speaking of marketing. Would anybody buy that with only 3100 miles on it? By the time the umpteenth person hears about it, the story has changed into the orange can of death.
When I watched some Fram videos with all those fancy testing rigs, I get the impression these guys really know what they are doing...and then I see a product like this.
When I watched some Fram videos with all those fancy testing rigs, I get the impression these guys really know what they are doing...and then I see a product like this.
Originally Posted By: dishdude
^ There's a job for you in the Fram marketing department! Cardboard end caps? No that's a specially patented engineered fiber board.
All of his "concerns" were the same things common to the majority of oil filters on the market.
^ There's a job for you in the Fram marketing department! Cardboard end caps? No that's a specially patented engineered fiber board.
All of his "concerns" were the same things common to the majority of oil filters on the market.
My biggest concern about the design is that the end caps are made out of the same material as the box the filter ships in. Add in the minimal amount of media and the entire element gets distorted when used, especially in the larger cans. Yes, it probably works okay but it sure looks like it was designed to be built as cheaply as possible.
Originally Posted By: dishdude
My biggest concern about the design is that the end caps are made out of the same material as the box the filter ships in. Add in the minimal amount of media and the entire element gets distorted when used, especially in the larger cans. Yes, it probably works okay but it sure looks like it was designed to be built as cheaply as possible.
Yeah, it is their economy filter with a pretty decent efficiency. It's only rated to 5K miles, so keep that in mind. The amount of media is based on that level of use. It's not for everyone, but it works for what it's intended to do. I think I'd use an EG before a Purolator classic at this point in time if those were the only two choices I had.
Did you do a forensic materials analysis to confirm those end caps and the box were exactly the same? LoL They obviously aren't because the end caps don't disintegrate in use. One thing you have to say about the Frams with non-metal end caps is that the glue they use sure doesn't let go between the end caps and pleats.
My biggest concern about the design is that the end caps are made out of the same material as the box the filter ships in. Add in the minimal amount of media and the entire element gets distorted when used, especially in the larger cans. Yes, it probably works okay but it sure looks like it was designed to be built as cheaply as possible.
Yeah, it is their economy filter with a pretty decent efficiency. It's only rated to 5K miles, so keep that in mind. The amount of media is based on that level of use. It's not for everyone, but it works for what it's intended to do. I think I'd use an EG before a Purolator classic at this point in time if those were the only two choices I had.
Did you do a forensic materials analysis to confirm those end caps and the box were exactly the same? LoL They obviously aren't because the end caps don't disintegrate in use. One thing you have to say about the Frams with non-metal end caps is that the glue they use sure doesn't let go between the end caps and pleats.
We have used (group 7) Purolators in the shop for many many years until the tearing issues started about a year and a half ago and only had a problem with leaking filters a couple of times at best and i am talking minor leaks. They were good filters until around 2012 or so but again in any case leaks were not a problem with purolator as far as i know. I will say i did have a Wix filter that leaked last month and also one that had a bad anti drainback valve.
Originally Posted By: dishdude
I'm willing to bet both the box and end caps started their lives as a tree
So did the media in every non synthetic filter. Has it ever been "proven" to be cardboard vs thick filter media? Cause in the before use teardowns it looks like filter paper. And if it's good enough to filter for oil it's sure good enough to be an endcap.
IMHO it looks fine. But then again I've got nothing against fiber endcaps or Fram.
I'm willing to bet both the box and end caps started their lives as a tree
So did the media in every non synthetic filter. Has it ever been "proven" to be cardboard vs thick filter media? Cause in the before use teardowns it looks like filter paper. And if it's good enough to filter for oil it's sure good enough to be an endcap.
IMHO it looks fine. But then again I've got nothing against fiber endcaps or Fram.
For under $4 (in the US), the thing did its job.
I've run a few MC's as well as a Mopar that looked far worse than this as far as waviness.
An FL400s and Mopar Mo-090 as well as an FL-820s. 2 different engines (the Ford having less than 30k), roughly 5k of usage and they came out looking like a troll used them as toilet paper.
I've run a few MC's as well as a Mopar that looked far worse than this as far as waviness.
An FL400s and Mopar Mo-090 as well as an FL-820s. 2 different engines (the Ford having less than 30k), roughly 5k of usage and they came out looking like a troll used them as toilet paper.
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
We have used (group 7) Purolators in the shop for many many years until the tearing issues started about a year and a half ago and only had a problem with leaking filters a couple of times at best and i am talking minor leaks. They were good filters until around 2012 or so but again in any case leaks were not a problem with purolator as far as i know. I will say i did have a Wix filter that leaked last month and also one that had a bad anti drainback valve.
You said earlier in this thread that WIX was better.
Is this your idea of better?
We have used (group 7) Purolators in the shop for many many years until the tearing issues started about a year and a half ago and only had a problem with leaking filters a couple of times at best and i am talking minor leaks. They were good filters until around 2012 or so but again in any case leaks were not a problem with purolator as far as i know. I will say i did have a Wix filter that leaked last month and also one that had a bad anti drainback valve.
You said earlier in this thread that WIX was better.
Is this your idea of better?
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
You said earlier in this thread that WIX was better.
Is this your idea of better?
Looks better than this
Look at that quality, certainly no quantity of media there
And let's not forget this orange beauty queen!
And those were cans Fram put their name on, not a store brand filter.
You said earlier in this thread that WIX was better.
Is this your idea of better?
Looks better than this
Look at that quality, certainly no quantity of media there
And let's not forget this orange beauty queen!
And those were cans Fram put their name on, not a store brand filter.
It was mentioned in this thread that the PH8A and PH16 normally look pretty bad.
Obviously this one doesn't look like that. Perhaps something changed?
*As I have said here before, for every bad Fram, I can find a bad WIX, Purolator etc. I can find a whole spreadsheet full of Purolators actually.
I use all with confidence with the exception of Purolator so you really cant accuse me of being a "Fram boy." I can give you a list of the filter brands/ models I am currently using, but Ill spare you.
Obviously this one doesn't look like that. Perhaps something changed?
*As I have said here before, for every bad Fram, I can find a bad WIX, Purolator etc. I can find a whole spreadsheet full of Purolators actually.
I use all with confidence with the exception of Purolator so you really cant accuse me of being a "Fram boy." I can give you a list of the filter brands/ models I am currently using, but Ill spare you.
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Oh boy, this thread is a [censored] show.
The filter looks fine to me, it did its job. I will run an Extra Guard before I run a Purolator Classic. As others have said, it's made to filter oil, not to look pretty. I put an Extra Guard on my aunt's car, I'll be sure to cut it open & post after her 5,000-6,000 mile run.
I've never seen a Fram fail, I've seen vehicles with hundreds of thousands of miles & they've always had an orange can on them. Fram is 100% okay!
The filter looks fine to me, it did its job. I will run an Extra Guard before I run a Purolator Classic. As others have said, it's made to filter oil, not to look pretty. I put an Extra Guard on my aunt's car, I'll be sure to cut it open & post after her 5,000-6,000 mile run.
I've never seen a Fram fail, I've seen vehicles with hundreds of thousands of miles & they've always had an orange can on them. Fram is 100% okay!
I don't have a problem with Fram orange can end caps. I think they are better engineered than the ecore end caps. Not long ago there was a Fram made filter for Honda, and those end caps had increased in thickness.
Is Fram ever going to throw a bone to the PH 16 and PH 8A because other orange cans look better engineered compared to those two?
Is Fram ever going to throw a bone to the PH 16 and PH 8A because other orange cans look better engineered compared to those two?
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