This may sound like a Twilight Zone or Pet Cemetary plot, but I swear it is true!
My friend Jim has a 97 Taurus that he recently purchased used from the original owner Stacy. We are all coworkers so all of the history on this car is known. It has about 80k miles.
Around 40K miles, the check engine light came on with a catalyst efficicentcy code for bank 1. The dealer replaced the unique side input cat that there is no cheap universal cat replacement for. About $600 I think was the cost although I think the warranty may have covered it.
My friend Jim bought the car about 6 months and about 10k miles ago. Recently the bank 1 cat efficentcy code returned. He replaced the EGR module that can sometimes cause this code on a Tarus but it did not help. He did a complete tune up with the specified Motorcrap plugs and Furd dealer wires (FoMoCo ignitions are very finiky and may not run right with any other brand parts!!!)
Still the cat efficientcy code persisted. The bank 1 and bank 2 (left side and right side V6 engine exhaust pipes) O2 sensors were swapped. This is done to see if the problem moves to bank 2 or remains a bank 1 problem. It verifies whether the O2's are good or bad.
Now most brand's OBDII cat efficentcy monitors are looking at the O2's down stream of the cats and comapring the voltage swing to the upstream O2's. The upstream O2's should swing rapidly and wildly while in closed loop mode from say .1 volts to say .9 volts. This is because the unburnt fuel in each exhaust slug varies a little from the next. It is normal.
But the post-cat O2's should be much steadier and fluxuate slower and less wildly, from say .01 to say .7 Why? Because if the cat is working, it will reduce the oxegen in the exhaust stream as it breaks downs down the hydrocarbons and the result is a much less excited O2.
Now an O2 "simulator" could be used to get the car through emissions. These are illegal devices used by people who have modified their vehicles beyond what the law allows, usually to gain performance. My friend will not consider this as an option. ;~) Nor did he want to spring for the bolt-in factory-fit side flow cat pipe assembly from Walker for around $400.
On a whim, he started using FP in the car. Within a week of 80 miles a day highway driving the code was gone!
So he stopped using FP because that just can't be right. About 2 weeks and 2 gas tanks later, the code was back.
Again he used FP and again a week later the code was gone.
So he quit using FP because this is just a freakish coincidence, right? Well guess what? About 3 weeks and 3 tanks later the code returned.
Now what? More FP and wa-la! Within a week the code is gone. For 3 weeks as of this writing he has been on FP with no cat code!!!
My advice? Do this emissions test that he is required to do in August NOW!!! Now while it will pass!
Many questions remain.
Why is the 30k-40k mile cat going bad? Coolant poisoning? Carbon buildup? Poor design? Bad luck?
What exactly is FP doing to correct the problem with the cat if anything?
But the empirical evidence in this case is, not only will FP probably NOT harm a cat, but it may indeed revive a marginal one or one that that is dead or dying. Or the case could be that FP has cleaned up the emissions enough that that the marginal/dead/dying cat is no longer needed to perform at it its usual level of emissions reduction.
I strongly suspect that FP should extend the service life of a normal cat if used regularly based on this one odd example.
Here are two related threads that came up when I searched this site for similar discussions. Did I miss anything?
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=002999#000000
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=002238#000003
Any comments?
Thanks,
Mike
FP Revives Dead Cats?
- Thread starter kruL
- Start date
- Status
Other people have posted on the ability to flush cat's with lots of solvents to clean them! So this does not suprise me to much. I do think it would be unlikely though as a lot of it would have to hit he cat in an unburned state to really clean it!
What's the federally required emissions warranty on that cat? Some years are 80k miles, and some 100.
Better find out fast if it's 80.
I'd stop using the FP, fail the emissions test, and have Ford pick up the tab, if this still qualifies. You'd want the fresh parts if they appear to have a limited lifespan, and Ford's buying. The wording of the emissions warranty generally only covers parts that fail a state-mandated inspection.
Thanks, I think he already checked into the warranty and came up short. He has no documentation that the cat was replaced at 40k and it's over 80k now. ;~(
Me? I know how to cheat an OBDI car that fails but I know very few OBDII tricks (like the cat simulators).
OBDI - first off if it calls for any advance on the base timing, don't. Set it to 0* for the test. HC goes way up for each degree of base that you dial into it. If it calls for 0* or less than 0* then I would go with that.
Next add 10% pure racing grade methanol fuel to the gasoline. Add more if it fails by a large margine, 20-25% will clean up almost anything. Warning: using too much meth may cause you to fail because you are TOO CLEAN an do not meet the minimum CO+CO2.
Meth burns light blue with no smoke. You can't see the flame in the sunlight. Watch an Indy car fueling fire... you just see the heat shimmers. Gas burns with a bright orange-red flame with lots of dirty black smoke. There is no mistaking a gasoline fire, rain or shine.
If you cook on a gas stove and the flame is blue, you need no vent as there is no CO produced. But if your burner gets dirty and you have a yelow to orange flame, you are making deadly CO and you will die if you don't have good ventilation!!! Meth makes little to no CO when it powers a motor. So the CO will go way down when meth is added to the gas.
Meth burns cool as compared to gas. So cool that Nox will be reduced greatly or nearly eliminated. The HC's will go down too.
Reduce base timing and add meth. A 600 cid racing motor with a wild roller cam, two dominator (large carburators) on a tunnel ram with no cats or emissions equipment at all will likely pass an OBDI sniffer with 50% meth added to the fuel.
But don't leave meth in the fuel system for long. It is corrosive largely because of its hydroscopic property and will rust your steel gas tank and metal lines, corrode your aluminum fuel componets and may harm certain types of rubber fuel hoses and seals. Run a couple of tanks of fuel completly out and add some FP to purge the meth as soon as you pass the test. ;~)
If this a 12v vulcan or 24 valve duratec?
If the vehicle always needs a dose to eliminate the SES/CEL, then you have a problem that needs fixing.
If repair work was at dealer, then have any ford dealer run the VIN and print out all dealer records. Also, have them search for recalls to make sure that all are complete.
Here's a list of things that might help:
Thermostat/coolant flush to get engine up to running temp quickly and keep it there.
Replace the air and fuel filters.
Have fuel pump PSI checked.
Make sure the correct spark plugs are in the correct position. Some 3.0's front 3 plugs are different then the rear 3 plugs. A solution would be to use a double platinum plug which will work in either bank. Gap those plugs.
Get a thorough FI cleaning including throttlebody/MAF/Intake.
Thanks!
It is the base 3.0L, not the 4 cam. So I guess that would be the 12v vulcan?
I'll pass along the suggestions.
MolaKule
Staff member
quote:My theory is it's cleaning off the O2 sensor.
What exactly is FP doing to correct the problem with the cat if anything?
I thought you were talking aboui real cats waking up from the dead due to the strong odor of FP!
![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif)
![[Wink]](images/icons/wink.gif)
![[Eek!]](images/icons/shocked.gif)
Catchy thread title. I was expecting the mother of all testimonials.
Does anybody know the song "Step Right Up" by Tom Waits? Nothing automotive, but it spoofs just about every other product claim.
Actually I think that Wendy's needs to be sued for infringement on the FP formula.
While I love their new Mediteranian Salad, the default dressing that comes with it is Wnedy's Red Wine Vinaigrette. It looks like FP, feels like FP, smells like FP and even tastes like FP. I'm just glad I didn't step in it!
Please be indulgent with the depth of my ignorance.
I question what might be this FP you write of?
quote:Topic: BITOG acronyms
Originally posted by mohammed: Please be indulgent with the depth of my ignorance. I question what might be this FP you write of?
![[Cheers!]](/forums/graemlins/cheers.gif)
Many blessings for you Mr. Bypassfilter.
So quickly the help is here!
Blessings for all.
Thank you, Al laikoum salaam Mr. Terry.
Hahaha, yes I have problem the oil coming to the garden when I make a hole for the seed.
I pay to take it away! Hahaha.
If anybody pours FP on my cat while he's sleeping they are going to be in for a real surprise. He'll come back to life alright! His favourite targets are your feet and your face. ![[No no]](/forums/graemlins/nono.gif)
Good luck, Steve
Good luck, Stevequote:It would probably cause instant death, but a mussle spasm ay get the person! [ June 07, 2005, 04:46 AM: Message edited by: 04SpecV ]
Originally posted by srivett: If anybody pours FP on my cat while he's sleeping they are going to be in for a real surprise. He'll come back to life alright! His favourite targets are your feet and your face.
Hello everyone,
Please excuse this long and somewhat off topic post, but it pertains to this thread.
I am new here as a member but not as a visitor/reader. I must say that I have read a plethora of good and enlightening information from most everyone here, and it has helped me refine and create a more cost effective way to maintain my vehicles. All of you are brilliant and know your stuff when it comes down to lubrication. Thank you Mola, John B., Terry, Frank, Bob, and everyone else that makes informative contributions to the site.
I decided to join the forum because I am seeing something here that I see all the time on less desirable forums, and I am hoping a good forum like this could take a little constructive criticism. Let me say, I do not intend any flame on anyone but perhaps an eye opener to preserve the quality of the forum.
A new member, or I believe he or she is a new member, posted something about a friend of theirs who had some interesting results using FP. He/she was simply asking, well maybe not so simply, if these results are possible or coincidence. Everyone, except John, derailed the question beginning with Eljefino as if they never read the details of the original post. All I think he/she was looking for was some detailed and maybe scientific information on whether or not FP is capable of reducing emission’s to a point which may appear that a failed converter is fixed or if it can actually extend the life of a new or properly operating converter. If Krul’s friend’s experience with FP is doing what it appears to be doing, using FP can extend the life of these expensive components and make the air cleaner for all of us to breathe; this would be another plus for FP.
Fixing the car:
By changing the positions of the 02 sensors, if there was a problem with one or more of them, the problem would have moved, and it didn’t. He/she also mentioned that the car was tuned up with the Ford recommended Motorcraft parts. I didn’t read anywhere that he/she was asking how to fix anything. As for Undummy saying the 3.0 needs 2 different plug types for front and rear cylinders, that’s not true. Yes, from the factory, Ford put 2 types of plugs in, that was cost effective for Ford. I can explain that later if anyone is interested. I have been a Ford owner for many years and have a good bit of time as a mechanic.
From telling Krul how to fix the car to turning the whole thing into a joke I think was very unwelcoming and by far well below the standard for this class of site. Yes, I know Krul chimed in on the joke too; maybe he/she thought there was no interest in what he/she was asking. Yes, Krul was a bit winded (to say the least) but I see a definite pattern here with the cat efficiency fault and the use of FP; I’m surprised no one else picked up on that.
I think everyone should have stuck with the possibility of FP correcting emissions issues or it’s ability to make a positive contribution to clean emissions instead of trying to fix the car and make jokes. This forum is comprised of a group of very intelligent people that have a real passion for everything related to lubrication technology. I’m just surprised that this thread went down the road it did. After all, the question was (not verbatim): is all this possible or coincidence.
What are the limitations of FP? Terry, Jeff, Mola…
- Status
Similar threads
