formula+ vs sport-trans

[vmaxboys]

big interrogation.
i have a harley xlh 1000 1978.
2 years ago,the harley dealer sold me sport-trans oil for the primary.
last week,he said sport-trans is not available,he sold me the new formula+.
is it the same oil and is it possible to mix together?



thanks

vmaxboys

 

[EagleFTE]

First of all cool bike. 78 Sportser 1000! Don't see one of those every day.

Your dealer is correct in that the Motor Company has discontinued Sportstran and now has Formula +. Same deal with the big twins but the primary and trans are separate on those. The history of all this is a bit long but the short version is the MoCo wanted to offer one fluid for all three holes for big twins. Thus the HD Syn 3 oil. Most thought motor oil in the trans was not a good idea. Turned out the MoCo came to that conclusion after several years and introduced Formula + for the trans and primary. Most still don't use it in the transmission. Most use a good gear oil instead and F+ in the primary since the primary isn't too picky about lubes. Formula + as I recall is about a 40 wt oil with vertually no additives (probably a used oil analysis around here somewhere).

But...a Sportser dictates one fluid for both since it is the same hole. So the plot thickens (so to speak) for you. Some are using Formula +, some are using a JASO approved or other motor oil low in friction modifiers (Amsoil MCV and M1 Vtwin would be good ones), and some are using a 75W90 gear oil. I have no experience as I do not own a Sportser. Suggest you get some inputs here and also venture over to xlforum.net which is a Sportser / Buell forum. Go to forums and then to lubrication and lubricants. Has to be some recommendations there. If in doubt just do the Formula +. It is about $7.00 per Qt. A little steep for what it is but over the period of the change interval it's no big deal.

 

[EagleFTE]

I just checked and it appears I have underestimated the xl forum. They have a 16 page discussion on this very subject titled Formula + alternatives. They are getting kind of chippy over there too so grab a cold one or two. Pretty much says what I posted earlier on options. Also Drag Specialties, Bardahl, Bel Ray, Rev Tech, and Maxima all make equivalents to the old Sportstran.

 

[G-MAN]

Originally Posted By: EagleFTE
I just checked and it appears I have underestimated the xl forum. They have a 16 page discussion on this very subject titled Formula + alternatives. They are getting kind of chippy over there too so grab a cold one or two.


Did you check out the exchange I had in that thread with the moron who doesn't believe the primary and transmission in a Sportster share the same oil?

Formula+ is probably the best overall lube for a Sportster transmission. I happen to think it's too thick for the primary, but you're stuck when it comes to the Sportster.

 

[EagleFTE]

One more note. If you are looking for a good deal Dennis Kirk still has some Bardahl xl Sportstran equivalent for $1.68 per Qt. They are no longer going to carry Bardahl. This is a really good product at a increadible price. I bought a case of the motor oil just because I couldn't resist and added it to my stash. I guess I will use it for short OCIs or storage if I ever have the need.

Go to denniskirk.com, Harley, and look at the last page of the transmission and primary lubes.

Bardahl American Classic Gear and Chaincase Lubricant for XL Models
Dennis Kirk Part #: 305404

A case (12 qts.) will cost you about $26 delivered to your door step after shipping.

 

[GMBoy]

I still have my first harley - an '84 1000 Sportster XLH and all I've ever run in the primary/trans was 20W/50 motor oil. Changed every 2500-3500 miles. It's what the manual spec'd. I do run the new Formula+ in my Softail Duece and the wifes Lowrider however with fine results. I did the Mobil 1 gear oil route once, but ended up coming back to Formula+. It's the ONLY harley fluid I will use, their engine oils are worthless for the price.

 

[G-MAN]

Originally Posted By: GMBoy
I still have my first harley - an '84 1000 Sportster XLH and all I've ever run in the primary/trans was 20W/50 motor oil. Changed every 2500-3500 miles. It's what the manual spec'd. I do run the new Formula+ in my Softail Duece and the wifes Lowrider however with fine results. I did the Mobil 1 gear oil route once, but ended up coming back to Formula+. It's the ONLY harley fluid I will use, their engine oils are worthless for the price.


F+ did fine in my Sportster, but in my Super Glide the clutch would drag in cooler temps. F+ is thick. I switched to B&M Trick Shift in the primary and she shifts like butter at all temps now. And no more jump when you put it in 1st when it's cold.

 

[kballowe]

Formula + is basically a GL-3 lube, and very low in additives. The flash point suggests that it is some variety of synthetic.

UAO for Formula+

Think about it this way. All of my jp bikes have a shared sump (transmission, crankcase). They all work just peachy on motor oil.

I used Castrol 20w-50 in my sportster transmission/primary.

My Big Twins get Rotella 15w40 in the primary and 75w-90 gear oil in the transmission.

Opinions by Kevin - your mileage may vary.

P.S. - I firmly believe that the Formula+ is an improvement over the old SportTrans.
.
.

 

[EagleFTE]

G-man, I quickly scanned the first page or two but could tell it was going to get ugly so I didn't see the guy that didn't know XLs shared fluid for the primary and transmission. The problem with those sites is too many know it alls that know little to nothing. Some can't even give the right advice on how the check the oil becasue they had a softtail once upon a time and think it applies to all bikes regardless of year and model.

formula + is also the only fluid I buy from HD and just for the primary. I can get it for 25% off once a year at a annual local sale. But looking at going to Rotella 15W40 in the 94 this year. Last year I ran some old SL Castrol GTX just for fun in the primary and it worked just fine. The newer bike gets Formula + just for good measure while I experiment with fluids in the 94.

Also, found out I have a Brad Penn wholesaler (dealer to the dealers) just blocks from where I work. He called tonight and said he would fix me up.

 

[G-MAN]

Originally Posted By: kballowe
Formula + is basically a GL-3 lube, and very low in additives. The flash point suggests that it is some variety of synthetic.


I think those supposed published specs for Formula+ which have circulated on the Net for years are not accurate. I put some Formula+ in the freezer overnight along with some Super Tech 75w140 full synthetic gear lube. After 12 hours at 0F the Formula+ was opaque and would not pour. The synthetic gear lube was still crystal clear and would easily pour. Guess which one is in my transmission now...

 

[kballowe]

Originally Posted By: G-MAN
Originally Posted By: kballowe
Formula + is basically a GL-3 lube, and very low in additives. The flash point suggests that it is some variety of synthetic.


I think those supposed published specs for Formula+ which have circulated on the Net for years are not accurate. I put some Formula+ in the freezer overnight along with some Super Tech 75w140 full synthetic gear lube. After 12 hours at 0F the Formula+ was opaque and would not pour. The synthetic gear lube was still crystal clear and would easily pour. Guess which one is in my transmission now...


I read that Amsoil mini-uoa as a straight 50 weight, so it would probably be like molasses at 0 degrees. i.e. the 75w-90 gear oil is nearly the same viscosity as a 20w-50 motor oil so it should pour more easily.

There's a used oil analysis out here somewhere that shows the flashpoint a lot higher than a conventional lube, and that's why I thought that it may be some sort of synthetic.

Still, we ride down to about 20 degrees, - so we use something other than the Formula+

 

[G-MAN]

Originally Posted By: kballowe
Originally Posted By: G-MAN
Originally Posted By: kballowe
Formula + is basically a GL-3 lube, and very low in additives. The flash point suggests that it is some variety of synthetic.


I think those supposed published specs for Formula+ which have circulated on the Net for years are not accurate. I put some Formula+ in the freezer overnight along with some Super Tech 75w140 full synthetic gear lube. After 12 hours at 0F the Formula+ was opaque and would not pour. The synthetic gear lube was still crystal clear and would easily pour. Guess which one is in my transmission now...


I read that Amsoil mini-uoa as a straight 50 weight, so it would probably be like molasses at 0 degrees. i.e. the 75w-90 gear oil is nearly the same viscosity as a 20w-50 motor oil so it should pour more easily.

There's a used oil analysis out here somewhere that shows the flashpoint a lot higher than a conventional lube, and that's why I thought that it may be some sort of synthetic.

Still, we ride down to about 20 degrees, - so we use something other than the Formula+


My point was that those same specs say the pour point for F+ is -60F, which based on my freezer test is total baloney. It also lists a VI of 150. With those numbers, F+ should easily pour at 0F.

 

[kballowe]

Point taken.

 

[GMBoy]

G-Man - I'm gonna try the B&M stuff!