wasted moola?

[fuel tanker man]

"but you cannot deny the higher HTHS numbers and higher flashpoints of some good synthetics."

Check the flashpoint on the Havoline 20W50 in my used oil analysis... http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=52;t=000023

It's 420.

That's higher than many syns on the market.

The Mobil 1 stuff is coming in around 365 degrees in the used oil analysis here. The Amsoil 20W50 was a bit better than the Mobil 1, at 385.

But still well under the Havoline dino.

What else ya got?

Dan

 

[badnews]

Is it just me or did it get awful quiet in here ???

 

[Pablo]

I really have not seen enough data to draw some of the conclusions you guys have.

Comparing flashpoints of a few different used oil analysis? I must say this is not useful either way. Too dependent on the equipment and fuel dilution.

I went back through and read the MC used oil analysis. Yes we can say that some/most bikes are very tough on oils in the shear department (duh). And yes PAO synthetics shear also - POE's maybe not as much, but not a lot of data. As for specific brands - I will say there aren't that many Amsoil street samples. More M1 - yes they did shear. More dino examples with shearing and a few surprises. I think the crowning must be put on hold.

 

[Propflux01]

Try a dino Vs synthetic on a Japanese Motorcycle with shared sump. Unlike your Harley, which does not use a shared sump, these Japanese motors will tear up any oil. Try the Havoline in one of those..

 

[Huhwhye]

Some of us travel on our bikes and a 2000 mile OCI is not possible. In 2 weeks, Aug 5, I leave on a 17 day trip. I expect to go a minimum of 6000 miles. Some guys don't put 2000miles a year on there bikes and that OCI is fine for them. But I require more. And it will be a cold day in **** when I let a dealer work on my bike. Especially one where I don't know the people. When I get back I will do a used oil analysis on the oil I run for the entire trip.

I'll try to convince the two other guys riding with me to do used oil analysis.

Still deciding whether to run Redline 20w50 or Mobil Vtwin in my BMW boxer. Mobil is $6.97 at Walmart and I can't find RL around here for less than $10.

 

[Propflux01]

hmmm, August 5th...wouldnt happen to be Sturgis would it? Thats the same day I am leaving also! And I am running Mobil 1 15w-50 in a 23 year old, air-cooled, 60,000 mile inline 4 Suzuki GS1100GK. No 2K oil change for me either on this trip...

 

[fuel tanker man]

Of course you can extend the drains if you wish. What I'm saying is that you shouldn't make the mistake of believing that a synthetic oil will, as a rule hold up better than a good conventional will.

Here is a chunk-blowing Royal Purple UOA on a 5K run on a Yamaha FZ-1. YUK!! And it sheared pretty badly as well.

And this Amsoil 10W40 dove very quickly into the 30 weight world after only about 8 miles of drag racing. web page

Lots of folks run Harley 360 conventional oil for 5000 miles and they get away with it.

In the shared crankcase/transmission bikes, the syns shear quite a bit as I've already posted links to. So take another look at the used oil analysis here. Gnashing gears have got to be hard on the VII's. Take another look at that 30 weight 9 dollar a quart Harley Syn3 in the V-rod 3000 mile run (that's a shared transmission/crankcase design).

So...

Run the extended drains if you must. Again, I would caution you to realize that syns seem about as prone to shearing as good conventionals in similar applications.

Show me the used oil analysis to prove me wrong...

Dan

 

[penzdude]

hey tanker, do you think the Pennzoil 20w50 conventional juice is comparable to the havoline? just wanted your opinion. it seems to be easier to find here in my neck o'the woods. i have used Mobil 1 15w50 in the motor and transmission, the older amsoil 20-50 in both as well. bike ran well on both, but it seemed the magnetic drain plug on the transmission had a little more "fur" on it when using the amsoil. i have used conventional Pennzoil Conventional in the motor with no ill effects or heat issues, but have always used a syn in the transmission. currently have valvo syn power 20-50 in the mill and the syn-power 80w90? i believe in the transmission. seems to shift smoother to me. dedicated gear oil vs motor oil in transmission? i know they are supposedly equal on the vis scale, but at least in my scoot, the gear oil rules. i know the mobil 1 75-90 gets good press with the hd crowd. opinions on the Pennzoil 20w50? thanks, ride safe. penzdude

 

[fuel tanker man]

I use the Mobil 1 75W90 in my transmission, and all seems well there. I rode the bike hard about a week ago, in 98 to 100 degree weather and the transmission began "clunking" on shifts like the Harley Semi-synthetic transmission stuff would do in any weather. So the Mobil 1 gear lube was obviously hot--but it did the job just fine. Clunking is normal for HD transmissions--but the Mobil 1 seems to smooth that out better than the HD semi-syn stuff does. I haven't ever tried any other transmission lubes.

I think the gear oils will shear less in transmissions than the 20w50 engine oils will. Presumaably, there are more viscosity index improvers in engine oils which are what tend to break down and shear. So like you, I feel inclined to stick with gear lube.

I don't know how Mobil 1 75W90 gear lube would compare to a dino gear oil. I can change the transmissioin lube out for about 5 bucks with the Mobil 1 (24 ounces of an 8 dollar quart) so I've just stuck with that stuff. Probably some other good transmission lubes out there, some dino...

On the Pennzoil 20W50, I would give it a try. It's a little bit lighter than the Havoline, but that won't matter. What matters is how much it shears down, and how good the additive pack is.

The Pennzoil additive pack is very good, and the base stocks (from what we see here) are top notch.
Why not run some Pennzoil 20W50 for a couple thousand to 2500 miles and get a used oil analysis and see?

Dan

 

[ssls6]

Here's a link so you can review the data.

http://members.aol.com/fmtrvt/OilStudy/

 

[SKUNKY]

"In other words --
being some miracle juice that will cease engine wear, grow hair on your head, and make you a stud in bed."

Ah...Badnews..would you please share the name of that miricle juice..

 

[Gurkha]

At the cost of being redundant, I would repeat, unless used in extreme conditions like low temps or auto racing,synthetics hold no advantage are have a massive cost drawback compared to diesel HDEO like Delo 400 or Delvac Super, wouldn't surprise me a bit if these two hold their own against synthetics in race track situation as well.

 

[ssls6]

A guy on the ford diesel truck forum has been collecting used oil analysis on the 6L diesel engine for several years. With over 300 different engines and 20 different oils (including 6 major synthetics), there is absolutely no correlation between synthetic oil and reduced wear.

My own truck (I have 4 used oil analysis with synthetic and 2 with dino) showed the same thing.

My interpretation? Synthetics are marketed based on slight performace advantages at the extremes which don't apply to the actual use.

 

[SlowDave]

Well, as a motorcycle roadracer, I can tell you that nearly all that crowd (myself included) change the oil every weekend or at a max, every two weekends of racing. A race weekend normally involves about ~2 hrs of actual use. (Endurance race bikes can get up into the 8-10 hr range depending on the length of that weekend's race, but absolutely get changed every event.) I use car oil in my race bike and firmly believe that the amount of viscosity breakdown or any other degradation that can happen in single digit engine hours, even at extreme use, is insignificant.

 

[fuel tanker man]

I use car oil in my race bike...

Which car oil?

Dan

 

[Huhwhye]

.

 

[sunruh]

i'll disagree with you slowdave.
as i've shown in my used oil analysis, not only does it happen (vi breakdown), it happens FAST!

 

[SlowDave]

Dan,
I usually use Valv 10W-40.

Sunruh,
There is always an initial drop in viscosity upon initial use. I'd love to review your UOA (used oil analysis?) and better understand your point of view. If you have data that shows something other than this initial relatively small drop in the time period of under 10 hrs, I'd love to see it. Maybe there's a "UOA" folder somewhere on here??

I'm a newbie to this forum, but am amazed at the extreme use of acronymns. Makes me want to break out my old FUA (Frequently Used Acronym) list. Took me 1/2 hr to figure out what BITOG stood for.

LOL.

 

[SlowDave]

Sunruh,
I found your used oil analysis (UOA) results. I think your "racing" results and my "racing" results are going to be very different. You have a what...40 or 50 hp 250cc motor with a 1.2 liter oil capacity, operating in an environment of minimal air flow. I've got a ~65-70 hp 400cc motor with a 3+ liter oil capacity averaging over 70 mph during operation. Don't know about your oil cooling either, but that thing is about as close as we're gonna get to an oil abuse test.

So I think I could see that thing eating its own oil, but I don't think it's representative of street or roadrace bikes.

My $.02

 

[ktm525]

SlowDave,
Right on. That is why I have finally given up on expensive synthetics and taken the approach of using a quality dino HDEO and changing it often in my dirtbike. Not only is there periods of minimal airflow but when I start abusing the clutch (fanning it on the corners when a gear high or keeping it halfway engaged to modulate power on a tough hillclimb) the oil really gets "worked". Dirtbikes also can get contaminated oil by water/mud when doing deep creek crossings, Idoubt many steetbike owners have drained therir oil only to find a grey/white milkshake coming out of the crankcase. On a steetbike with good forward speed the cooling system should be able to keep the oil temps in check. I would use a good synthetic in a street machine and extend the intervals.