Former employer screwed me

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: rat
And thats the thing, I was never asked about it. It was an accusation of theft, (I was one of many accused) and I was proven innocent after an investigation. This guy seems to be holding a grudge because I fought back when I was wrongly accused.


Is this a big company that you worked for? If it is at least a 50 people company usually the HR wouldn't really care about what's going on. For a small company, well, the boss holding grudges could cause you a lot of trouble and having a lawyer involved if they tell the new company is going to make them think twice about what's going on.

Now if they only said no comment, or you guys didn't work well together, then there's nothing you can do about it.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: GROUCHO MARX
Usually former employers will just issue a "no comment". It says the same thing as a negative comment without any legal liability.


+1 Only a real fool would elaborate. Especially today with all kinds of legal ramifications that could follow.

 

[mechanicx]

But even if you find a lawyer to take your defamation suit and pay the fees, will a civil court really award you anything? First you have to show by a preponderance of evidence that the statements were made recently AND not true and that it caused you damages. It comes down to a judgement call of the judge I think. And I think civil courts have a bad record of making victims whole. In some countries defamation is a criminal offense but in the US it seems to happen all day every day and nothing is done about it. You are pretty much at the mercy of whoever wants to trash talk you.

I wished more people would fight defamation though and maybe it wouldn't happen so often.

 

[Dave Hess]

This similar situation happened to my friend that worked at a car dealership for the Parts Dept (delivery driver) and was fired along with appox 15 other people for stealing. Some were loading parts off the shelf onto their truck and selling them for half price than what the repair shops were paying. This dealership was bleeding money due to the high theft.

He is a bible thumping very religious person, but it haunted him for many years cause he would use them as a former employer due to the fact that he worked there for 6 years. A big gap in employment would be questioned if he didn't list them as a previous employer on a job application.

He got a raw deal even though he didn't steal any thing but was fired cause all the dirvers had to go.

 

[IntegraVT]

Originally Posted By: Papa Bear
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
Get a friend to call this person you think gave you the unfavorable reference pretending to be from Human Resources of _______ company and have them ask if Mr Rat (you) is a good employee, your work ethic, training , qualifications, etc.....etc.

This person will then say that Mr Rat (you) is a lazy bum that should be flipping burgers and not be hired by ________ company you applied for. Of course you will be listening on the other end to hear what they say.

If this person said something negative about you in the past, I'm pretty sure this person will talk more trash when another company HR Dept calls asking about you.




Just be sure your ex-employer doesn't have call display...

If rat decides to do this, he should probably do some homework first (eg: read up on social engineering, non-tracable numbers, CallerID spoofing methods and services, and possibly set up a domain/website/email for the company and HR dept, etc...)

 

[PandaBear]

My question is:

Can they fire you if you are cleared that you (not pointing to anyone in particular, just people in general) did not commit any fault/crime on the job?

I'd imagine in theory it would be easier to convince the former employer that you are not at fault / did not commit the act rather than forcing them to give you a good review.

Investigation clearing you as innocent is one thing, really convince your former boss that you didn't do it rather than you got lucky and get away is another.

 

[mechanicx]

Most employment without a union contract or some contract is at-will. The employer can fire you for any reason or no reason at all, except for unlawful reason like age, gender, race (hard to prove). The question is what is the former employer saying in a reference. If they mass fired employees without finding out who was actually stealing they really shouldn't be saying anything. They could say just that, that they mass fired and they would be free to say so, but even that would probably keep you from getting hired. My guess is they are probably just trashing the former employee in references.

The real problem is workers are in high supply and jobs are in high demand so employers can be so picky even arbitrary and capricious.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
The real problem is workers are in high supply and jobs are in high demand so employers can be so picky even arbitrary and capricious.


That's the problem with using the reference system. You may be innocent, but why would the new employer take a chance when there are 20 other guys in front of you without need to prove that they are innocent? The new employer is taking a lower risk move rather than being fair to protect themselve, cannot really blame them on that.

That's very unfortunate, because you cannot fight the accusation if there is no accusation to begin with.

 

[Trajan]

One HR department sent a letter to my lawyer and doctor of a list of things I did. Top of the list was that I was arrested at said doctor's office. They said it to both as well over the phone.

Come court time, they ended up admitting they made it up. They lost.

A second one claimed I was a terrible employee, that I threatened to do this and that. They failed to explain whay all my performance reviews were steller and I got better than average raises year after year. (They didn't want to pay workman's comp.).

They lost that one too. and a few heads, the head of HR among them, rolled afterward.

 

[mechanicx]

Good to hear you got some justice. They tried to destroy your job opportunities, only fair that they lost theirs.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: GROUCHO MARX

The HR department is not composed of employees of the company. They're more like the Gestapo or CIA. Nobody rules over them, not the CEO or President and company rules and restrictions seldom apply to the HR department. This is particularly true when salary freezes are imposed.


They do tend to be overseers. The power tends to corrupt them a good bit. I'd say it is about one of the most powerful positions in a company.

What's funny is how the disposition changes between pre-hire and once hired. Pre-hire, depending on if they need you more than you need them, you're a fish to be hooked. Post hire you're yesterday's catch and anything you're looking for is optional. Good people have a very hard time remaining nice people after a bout in HR ..at least staying in HR.

You also need to know how to play to the HR's demon's personality. We had who we called the "Dragon Lady". Every other swinging worker went head to head with her. I merely left my manhood at the door and she could deny me nothing. All she needed was recognition of her poor to hassle you to death ..and that was it. She would hassle you to death too. Guys on workers comp not getting their checks since she just left them sitting on her to do bin ..weeks...stuff like that.

 

[fdcg27]

It sounds to me like there is a strong personal element involved.
What would happen if you simply confronted the [censored] face to face, and told him to knock it off?
People are often more personally then proffesionally motivated.
Confront someone who is driven by personal motives, and they will almost always back off.
You will have called their bluff, and betrayed their dirty little sub rosa game.
It is agravating to be spoken of badly behind one's back.
Been there, done that, am wearing the tee shirt.
People who speak badly of you behind your back are usually also cowards.
Letting them know that you are aware of the game will often shut them up, particularly where independent third paries are involved.

 

[Dave Hess]

If Rat went back to his old job and confronted this person, they would just probably call the police and try and get him in more trouble and file a restraining order cause they would say that Rat threatened violence.

^^^^^^^
Like what happened in Connecticut at the Budweiser distribution plant. All it takes is for that person to call 911 and say he is threatening to shoot the place up.

 

[Gary Allan]

I imagine someone who knows employment legalese would manage to get the company denying employment based on a poor personal recommendation to cite the source(someone had to author the letter/data) and that the content should somehow be viewable.

Employment laws are pretty strict. Most can't do more than enumerate.

There's potential that either the company giving the negative recommendation or the mere denial stating that it was because of the poor recommendation - were legally in error.

That is, both may not have been legally allowed to do what they did. The hiring company may just have been in violation of "saying" that they did not hire you for that reason.

There's practical limits there too. If you were a 5-6 year employee and got a bad recommendation, it's kinda obvious that you were good enough to keep on for 5-6 years. Even 2 or 3 would be some indication that you were considered a better investment than firing and hiring new.

 

[mechanicx]

I once had a former employer give an inaccurate record for a reference. I went up the chain of command to complain to the regional resource manager or whatever. And they would not correct it. That's been my experience that employers do not give accurate recommendations and stonewall when called on it like all organizations do. Sucks.

 

[Gary Allan]

There are legit seminars (I've seen the brochures) on how to keep your employees on the brink of being fired as a bona fide management tool.

People think that employment is different where it's socialized. The HR dept is charged with keeping a lid on the place and preventing the inmates from running the asylum.

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Good to hear you got some justice. They tried to destroy your job opportunities, only fair that they lost theirs.


Yep. Forgot to mention that in the first case the EEOC got involved. A district manager got busted to department manager. Some HR people got busted too.

Rule number 1. Injured on the job? Get a lawyer. HR departments are not your friend.

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
If Rat went back to his old job and confronted this person, they would just probably call the police and try and get him in more trouble and file a restraining order cause they would say that Rat threatened violence.

^^^^^^^
Like what happened in Connecticut at the Budweiser distribution plant. All it takes is for that person to call 911 and say he is threatening to shoot the place up.


If he thinks he was wronged, that's what the legal system is for. Going to your former employer seeking a confontation doesn't look good on a resume. Especially if police get involved. Which is then a matter of public record.

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan

Employment laws are pretty strict. Most can't do more than enumerate.


I remember when hirirng people, their employers would never give more than "Yes, they worked from... to....". The frustrating part was that the people I answered to wanted more.

 

[dwendt44]

IF a friend with an un-listed number called, caller ID won't give you away.
Pick the name of a company that likely wouldn't know anyone at the old company.
Act professional while on the phone.
Etc...