Ford moves C-Max and Focus out of U.S.
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Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
One of the reasons I like and admire Tesla, instead of building $5 billion dollars Megafactory in a low cost country to have more profit, they build it here in Nevada. They also produce all their vehicles here in California and export to many countries oversea.
A Tesla and Ford Focus aren't in the same price range.
If I want to buy a Ford Focus new, then I will buy the last US made one. Or get a Cruz or Dart, which are still made in USA. Supposedly there will be a hatchback Cruz soon enough anyway.
One of the reasons I like and admire Tesla, instead of building $5 billion dollars Megafactory in a low cost country to have more profit, they build it here in Nevada. They also produce all their vehicles here in California and export to many countries oversea.
A Tesla and Ford Focus aren't in the same price range.
If I want to buy a Ford Focus new, then I will buy the last US made one. Or get a Cruz or Dart, which are still made in USA. Supposedly there will be a hatchback Cruz soon enough anyway.
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
UAW strikes again!
In Mexico you can pay them $5 an hour, no benefits and they are very happy.
Why is it, then, that Toyota and Honda and Hyundai can pay their workers a good wage along with providing benefits without the UAW stepping in?
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
UAW strikes again!
In Mexico you can pay them $5 an hour, no benefits and they are very happy.
Why is it, then, that Toyota and Honda and Hyundai can pay their workers a good wage along with providing benefits without the UAW stepping in?
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Why is it, then, that Toyota and Honda and Hyundai can pay their workers a good wage along with providing benefits without the UAW stepping in?
If they didn't, what do you think might happen?
Why is it, then, that Toyota and Honda and Hyundai can pay their workers a good wage along with providing benefits without the UAW stepping in?
If they didn't, what do you think might happen?
It's the "shareholder first" mentality striking again. The largest shareholders are the execs and other wealthy individuals. They're simply doing what is best for themselves, never mind the rest of us. If they mis-judge they'll get another "redevelopment" offer so it's all good. They've got theirs...
Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Then why is any auto plant in the U.S.? Cheaper labor in MX or Asia, other areas. Yet Kia/Hyundai set up here. Honda, Toyota, Subaru. Logic works for some but not all?
The Asian manufacturers have non UAW factories which costs them less.
Then why is any auto plant in the U.S.? Cheaper labor in MX or Asia, other areas. Yet Kia/Hyundai set up here. Honda, Toyota, Subaru. Logic works for some but not all?
The Asian manufacturers have non UAW factories which costs them less.
Of course the real problem with making cars in Mexico is that you will not see the price drop one penny. That is always the argument made by the NAFTA lovers "It will allow more affordable products for American consumers". Well...only if the corporation wants to pass it along, but how often does that happen when you have to report to a board and have stock prices to worry about?
In the meantime good paying jobs often disappear and people struggle to buy any big ticket items.
In the meantime good paying jobs often disappear and people struggle to buy any big ticket items.
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Then why is any auto plant in the U.S.? Cheaper labor in MX or Asia, other areas. Yet Kia/Hyundai set up here. Honda, Toyota, Subaru. Logic works for some but not all?
The Asian manufacturers have non UAW factories which costs them less.
Great point, except I thought some became UAW, don't really know.
Everything I know comes from what Michael Keaton taught me in "Gung Ho", 1986, so I think its the 'morning exercises' that make the difference:
Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Then why is any auto plant in the U.S.? Cheaper labor in MX or Asia, other areas. Yet Kia/Hyundai set up here. Honda, Toyota, Subaru. Logic works for some but not all?
The Asian manufacturers have non UAW factories which costs them less.
Great point, except I thought some became UAW, don't really know.
Everything I know comes from what Michael Keaton taught me in "Gung Ho", 1986, so I think its the 'morning exercises' that make the difference:
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Then why is any auto plant in the U.S.? Cheaper labor in MX or Asia, other areas. Yet Kia/Hyundai set up here. Honda, Toyota, Subaru. Logic works for some but not all?
The Asian manufacturers have non UAW factories which costs them less.
Yep and they have remained profitable and successful for decades spitting out Honda , Toyota and Subaru.
Domestic brands never learned that aspect of producing vehicles.
Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Then why is any auto plant in the U.S.? Cheaper labor in MX or Asia, other areas. Yet Kia/Hyundai set up here. Honda, Toyota, Subaru. Logic works for some but not all?
The Asian manufacturers have non UAW factories which costs them less.
Yep and they have remained profitable and successful for decades spitting out Honda , Toyota and Subaru.
Domestic brands never learned that aspect of producing vehicles.
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Originally Posted By: Burt
In the 1930's we tried protectionism with tariffs and it had disastrous results.
Yet the consumers in THIS country fall all over themselves to buy cars from manufacturers whose base countries practice the above (and WORSE).
WHY do they not only get a pat on the back for the above, loathed by the right wing, policy, but are actually rewarded for doing so, but yet it is "no good' for U.S.?
In the 1930's we tried protectionism with tariffs and it had disastrous results.
Yet the consumers in THIS country fall all over themselves to buy cars from manufacturers whose base countries practice the above (and WORSE).
WHY do they not only get a pat on the back for the above, loathed by the right wing, policy, but are actually rewarded for doing so, but yet it is "no good' for U.S.?
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
One of the reasons I like and admire Tesla, instead of building $5 billion dollars Megafactory in a low cost country to have more profit, they build it here in Nevada. They also produce all their vehicles here in California and export to many countries oversea.
Which do you like better, a company keeps jobs in US and export final products to the world or a company export jobs everywhere and import cheaper products to have higher profit ?
Are the Tesla made with domestic parts,or foreign parts like GMs and Fords? I know nothing about Tesla so I honestly have no idea,just curious.
As of now Tesla imports Li-ion battery and some other parts from oversea like other manufactures. I don't know the electric engines are produced here or oversea, the 17" screen display is surely import from China.
My point is a car company can't manufacture every part, but Tesla is trying to secure an importance part that is Li-ion battery, instead of building the plant in China or other South-East Asia for low labor and environment cost they do it here.
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
One of the reasons I like and admire Tesla, instead of building $5 billion dollars Megafactory in a low cost country to have more profit, they build it here in Nevada. They also produce all their vehicles here in California and export to many countries oversea.
Which do you like better, a company keeps jobs in US and export final products to the world or a company export jobs everywhere and import cheaper products to have higher profit ?
Are the Tesla made with domestic parts,or foreign parts like GMs and Fords? I know nothing about Tesla so I honestly have no idea,just curious.
As of now Tesla imports Li-ion battery and some other parts from oversea like other manufactures. I don't know the electric engines are produced here or oversea, the 17" screen display is surely import from China.
My point is a car company can't manufacture every part, but Tesla is trying to secure an importance part that is Li-ion battery, instead of building the plant in China or other South-East Asia for low labor and environment cost they do it here.
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: Burt
In the 1930's we tried protectionism with tariffs and it had disastrous results.
Yet the consumers in THIS country fall all over themselves to buy cars from manufacturers whose base countries practice the above (and WORSE).
WHY do they not only get a pat on the back for the above, loathed by the right wing, policy, but are actually rewarded for doing so, but yet it is "no good' for U.S.?
The reason those tariffs didn't work was because they were not executed effectively and efficiently, the Germans did it right on that account and still do, you don't see Germany flooded with cheap and for that matter pretty expensive Chineseium junk products. Also a lot of it is cultural and a result of educational elements. The Germans and other Europeans realize that buying quality products made at home mean their neighbor and fellow citizen will prosper and in turn help increase the quality of life and standard of living for ALL their fellow countrymen.
CEOs, especially those here in the USA are the biggest bunch of tree swinging orangutans, over paid by as much or more that 200 times that of the AVERAGE employee at their organization plus they have an army of those whose job is simply to carry out the wishes of the CEO....worse yet is that many CEOs in the past two or three decades have been paid a mint after they have DESTROYED a company!
The "move to mehico" ain't necessarily because it is the best move (especially long term) but more so because
"every other idiot CEO is seen doing the same thing"....they are an expensive version of the old monkey see monkey doo effect.
These jerks read the trade pubs and see this "trend" and blindly believe they too must fall in line. But also much of these folks are from the old boy network and that also has a LOT of influence, heck how do you think these guys REALLY get those top jobs? You think they really EARNED them? No, it was the connections they have that sealed the deal.
Originally Posted By: Burt
In the 1930's we tried protectionism with tariffs and it had disastrous results.
Yet the consumers in THIS country fall all over themselves to buy cars from manufacturers whose base countries practice the above (and WORSE).
WHY do they not only get a pat on the back for the above, loathed by the right wing, policy, but are actually rewarded for doing so, but yet it is "no good' for U.S.?
The reason those tariffs didn't work was because they were not executed effectively and efficiently, the Germans did it right on that account and still do, you don't see Germany flooded with cheap and for that matter pretty expensive Chineseium junk products. Also a lot of it is cultural and a result of educational elements. The Germans and other Europeans realize that buying quality products made at home mean their neighbor and fellow citizen will prosper and in turn help increase the quality of life and standard of living for ALL their fellow countrymen.
CEOs, especially those here in the USA are the biggest bunch of tree swinging orangutans, over paid by as much or more that 200 times that of the AVERAGE employee at their organization plus they have an army of those whose job is simply to carry out the wishes of the CEO....worse yet is that many CEOs in the past two or three decades have been paid a mint after they have DESTROYED a company!
The "move to mehico" ain't necessarily because it is the best move (especially long term) but more so because
"every other idiot CEO is seen doing the same thing"....they are an expensive version of the old monkey see monkey doo effect.
These jerks read the trade pubs and see this "trend" and blindly believe they too must fall in line. But also much of these folks are from the old boy network and that also has a LOT of influence, heck how do you think these guys REALLY get those top jobs? You think they really EARNED them? No, it was the connections they have that sealed the deal.
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Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
One of the reasons I like and admire Tesla, instead of building $5 billion dollars Megafactory in a low cost country to have more profit, they build it here in Nevada. They also produce all their vehicles here in California and export to many countries oversea.
Which do you like better, a company keeps jobs in US and export final products to the world or a company export jobs everywhere and import cheaper products to have higher profit ?
How many Teslas you got or you gonna buy again? It's OK to admire I guess but when you can't afford their product why even pay attention?
One of the reasons I like and admire Tesla, instead of building $5 billion dollars Megafactory in a low cost country to have more profit, they build it here in Nevada. They also produce all their vehicles here in California and export to many countries oversea.
Which do you like better, a company keeps jobs in US and export final products to the world or a company export jobs everywhere and import cheaper products to have higher profit ?
How many Teslas you got or you gonna buy again? It's OK to admire I guess but when you can't afford their product why even pay attention?
Originally Posted By: daves87rs
Get used to it. Smart auto companies are going to move ALL production out of the US.
Profit and shareholders first....
Problem then becomes if all heavy manufacturing goes, a HUGE chunk of the domestic market will no longer be able to buy those products in the needed numbers. The U.S. Auto industry was really made viable by paying American workers a wage to where they could actually own cars. Ford's 5 dollar a day wage was DOUBLE the next best which was International Harvester. Combine that with a product at a good price point, and people could own cars.
Long term this strategy will not work. The world will run out of viable cheap labor markets.
Get used to it. Smart auto companies are going to move ALL production out of the US.
Profit and shareholders first....
Problem then becomes if all heavy manufacturing goes, a HUGE chunk of the domestic market will no longer be able to buy those products in the needed numbers. The U.S. Auto industry was really made viable by paying American workers a wage to where they could actually own cars. Ford's 5 dollar a day wage was DOUBLE the next best which was International Harvester. Combine that with a product at a good price point, and people could own cars.
Long term this strategy will not work. The world will run out of viable cheap labor markets.
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Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Of course the real problem with making cars in Mexico is that you will not see the price drop one penny.
I think we have a winner!!!
Of course the real problem with making cars in Mexico is that you will not see the price drop one penny.
I think we have a winner!!!
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Originally Posted By: daves87rs
Problem then becomes if all heavy manufacturing goes, a HUGE chunk of the domestic market will no longer be able to buy those products in the needed numbers. The U.S. Auto industry was really made viable by paying American workers a wage to where they could actually own cars. Ford's 5 dollar a day wage was DOUBLE the next best which was International Harvester. Combine that with a product at a good price point, and people could own cars.
Long term this strategy will not work. The world will run out of viable cheap labor markets.
$5 per day in 1914 = $120 in 2015 with minimal benefits. That's about $15 per hour all in. the Model T cost $450 then = $10,800.
See where the problem is?
Originally Posted By: daves87rs
Problem then becomes if all heavy manufacturing goes, a HUGE chunk of the domestic market will no longer be able to buy those products in the needed numbers. The U.S. Auto industry was really made viable by paying American workers a wage to where they could actually own cars. Ford's 5 dollar a day wage was DOUBLE the next best which was International Harvester. Combine that with a product at a good price point, and people could own cars.
Long term this strategy will not work. The world will run out of viable cheap labor markets.
$5 per day in 1914 = $120 in 2015 with minimal benefits. That's about $15 per hour all in. the Model T cost $450 then = $10,800.
See where the problem is?
Originally Posted By: Burt
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Originally Posted By: daves87rs
Problem then becomes if all heavy manufacturing goes, a HUGE chunk of the domestic market will no longer be able to buy those products in the needed numbers. The U.S. Auto industry was really made viable by paying American workers a wage to where they could actually own cars. Ford's 5 dollar a day wage was DOUBLE the next best which was International Harvester. Combine that with a product at a good price point, and people could own cars.
Long term this strategy will not work. The world will run out of viable cheap labor markets.
$5 per day in 1914 = $120 in 2015 with minimal benefits. That's about $15 per hour all in. the Model T cost $450 then = $10,800.
See where the problem is?
Of course the car only got cheaper year after year after year despite inflation. By the mid 20's they were under 300 bucks and wages were climbing along the way. It STARTED with the 5 dollar day. WW1 brought higher wages and post war something new...consumer credit.
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Originally Posted By: daves87rs
Problem then becomes if all heavy manufacturing goes, a HUGE chunk of the domestic market will no longer be able to buy those products in the needed numbers. The U.S. Auto industry was really made viable by paying American workers a wage to where they could actually own cars. Ford's 5 dollar a day wage was DOUBLE the next best which was International Harvester. Combine that with a product at a good price point, and people could own cars.
Long term this strategy will not work. The world will run out of viable cheap labor markets.
$5 per day in 1914 = $120 in 2015 with minimal benefits. That's about $15 per hour all in. the Model T cost $450 then = $10,800.
See where the problem is?
Of course the car only got cheaper year after year after year despite inflation. By the mid 20's they were under 300 bucks and wages were climbing along the way. It STARTED with the 5 dollar day. WW1 brought higher wages and post war something new...consumer credit.
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Problem then becomes if all heavy manufacturing goes, a HUGE chunk of the domestic market will no longer be able to buy those products in the needed numbers.
Ahh, there still are a few critical thinkers out there. This is the
long term thinking that so few understand. These people behind the race to the bottom are so narrow minded and greedy that they are killing the goose that lays the golden egg. These folks shareholders and executives are like drug addicts only money is their drug of choice, eventually they will kill themselves with the disease of greed.
Quote:
The U.S. Auto industry was really made viable by paying American workers a wage to where they could actually own cars. Ford's 5 dollar a day wage was DOUBLE the next best which was International Harvester. Combine that with a product at a good price point, and people could own cars.
Long term this strategy will not work. The world will run out of viable cheap labor markets.
So well put! Thank you.
Problem then becomes if all heavy manufacturing goes, a HUGE chunk of the domestic market will no longer be able to buy those products in the needed numbers.
Ahh, there still are a few critical thinkers out there. This is the
long term thinking that so few understand. These people behind the race to the bottom are so narrow minded and greedy that they are killing the goose that lays the golden egg. These folks shareholders and executives are like drug addicts only money is their drug of choice, eventually they will kill themselves with the disease of greed.
Quote:
The U.S. Auto industry was really made viable by paying American workers a wage to where they could actually own cars. Ford's 5 dollar a day wage was DOUBLE the next best which was International Harvester. Combine that with a product at a good price point, and people could own cars.
Long term this strategy will not work. The world will run out of viable cheap labor markets.
So well put! Thank you.
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