I'm not predicting the future. As I mentioned before history seems to repeat itself, history may very well repeat itself again, only with oil taking the form of lithium. Time will tell.
Ford loses 3 billion on EV
- Thread starter Trav
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Many times it is the will of our leadership, which we don't have control over, once voted in. I'll stay out of politics. There are plenty if examples I can give, but it's best I don't.
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Just because we’re on a path to H E double hockey sticks doesn’t mean China isn’t also. Government stupidity is not a zero sum game.
I agree! But I live in the USA, and the writing is on the wall. Regarding Government stupidity we have plenty of that here.
You know that's not true in either terms of absolute dollars or as % of GDP. It's close in terms of % of GDP.
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It’s at a pretty low level as a percentage of GDP. It’s just over 3% of GDP which is supposed to be a minimum level for NATO countries.
Wether you agree with it or not it’s hardly the budget problem A lot of people would like to think it is, and it’s one of the few things in the budget that’s actually required by the constitution.
Another touchy subject. IMO it should be upped, I won't get into where the money to up it should come from though.
DOD spending is always the third largest budget item right behind Medicare/Medicaid and Social Security. In actual dollars the amount spent keeps increasing. The share of GDP has decreased because more money is being spent elsewhere. The DOD has tried to reprioritize spending but has been thwarted because in many states it's a jobs program (Exhibit A: USAF has been trying to mothball the A10 and close Davis–Monthan AFB in Tucson)
Federal Spending: Where Does the Money Go
In fiscal year 2014, the federal government will spend around $3.8 trillion. These trillions of dollars make up a considerable chunk - around 22 percent - of the US. economy, as measured by Gross Domestic Product (GDP). That means that federal government spending makes up a sizable share of all...
www.nationalpriorities.org
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Actually USA debt servicing is at over 10% of GDP, Military is only 4.5% So in essence, paying interest on USA national debt is the number one expense of our budget. We could double military spending if we didnt have to pay interest on the debt we are borrowing.DOD spending is always the third largest budget item right behind Medicare/Medicaid and Social Security. In actual dollars the amount spent keeps increasing. The share of GDP has decreased because more money is being spent elsewhere (ex, Medicare/Medicaid) than it has in the past.
Federal Spending: Where Does the Money Go
In fiscal year 2014, the federal government will spend around $3.8 trillion. These trillions of dollars make up a considerable chunk - around 22 percent - of the US. economy, as measured by Gross Domestic Product (GDP). That means that federal government spending makes up a sizable share of all...
Social Security doesnt count as it doesnt add to the national debt. Technically you are correct (being part of the budget reporting) but it doesnt add to or affect the national debt in any way. (It's REALLY important for the young to be educated on this)
It is a self sustaining Trust Fund and funds can not be intermingled or used for any other purpose. Any surpluses in the Social Security Trust Fund are put into US Treasury notes (lent to the government which the government has to pay back with interest)
Hence the word Trust Fund
It's kind of funny when you think of it, the Social Security Trust Fund is untouchable by Congress except to pay Social Security Benefits. All the press and media attention the pubic reads talks about what danger it is in, yet the Trust Funds has TRILLION of dollars in surpluses that it lends the USA government in the form of Treasury Notes that the government has to pay back.
So in all the drama we are out another decade and the media makes it sound like Social Security has a spending problem with its surplus vs the disaster of the Federal Defect every year.
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Medicare and Medicade are split. Medicare is actually rolled into the spending including the affordable care acct spending by the Treasury - last I checked it was about 2/3 Medicare and 1/3 Affordable Care Act - which it should not be - Medicare has a trust fund everyone pays into. Medicare nor social security should not even be on budget. They have a trust fund and should be separately managed by their appropriate boards- still governed by laws of congress. They were put "on budget" in 1968 in order to screw us in the end - trust me.DOD spending is always the third largest budget item right behind Medicare/Medicaid and Social Security. In actual dollars the amount spent keeps increasing. The share of GDP has decreased because more money is being spent elsewhere. The DOD has tried to reprioritize spending but has been thwarted because in many states it's a jobs program (Exhibit A: USAF has been trying to mothball the A10 and close Davis–Monthan AFB in Tucson)
Federal Spending: Where Does the Money Go
In fiscal year 2014, the federal government will spend around $3.8 trillion. These trillions of dollars make up a considerable chunk - around 22 percent - of the US. economy, as measured by Gross Domestic Product (GDP). That means that federal government spending makes up a sizable share of all...
Medicade + "Food Security" + Educaction total 38% of the budget - and shouldn't be in the budget at all - they should be the purview of the states.
So 38% of the budget should go to the states, Medicare + Social Security should go off budget again, so 67% of the federal budget really shouldn't be where its at.
Note I didn't say it shouldn't exist, its just being managed by the wrong body.
Ok, back to Ford, in case it got lost from my last Ford post.
People think Ford is going to lose 3 Billion dollars this year when they are going to make (as of right now) 6 or 7 + Billion dollars.
All the talk in here is simple Ford spending money to produce new EV powered vehicles, yet still turn a profit on their ICE vehicles.
I posted in this thread, side by side profits for the last ten years, Tesla VS Ford a few pages back.
People think Ford is going to lose 3 Billion dollars this year when they are going to make (as of right now) 6 or 7 + Billion dollars.
All the talk in here is simple Ford spending money to produce new EV powered vehicles, yet still turn a profit on their ICE vehicles.
I posted in this thread, side by side profits for the last ten years, Tesla VS Ford a few pages back.
IMO, the federal tax credit on $100k teslas that only well off people could afford was almost a bailout.
Can someone explain why it was a good idea(or how it happened) to give 7500 of taxes back on toys for the "rich".
People buying these cars didnt need any tax credit.
the tax credit should have been heavily capped towards vehicle price and no shenanigans like elon's "Canada base price".
also should have limits (1 every 5 years?) and be rollover claimable(claim on taxes multiple years until the 7500? is reached if needed)
Note: I use "rich" because I realize if you are in silicon valley its a whole different economy vs West Virginia etc.
Can someone explain why it was a good idea(or how it happened) to give 7500 of taxes back on toys for the "rich".
People buying these cars didnt need any tax credit.
the tax credit should have been heavily capped towards vehicle price and no shenanigans like elon's "Canada base price".
also should have limits (1 every 5 years?) and be rollover claimable(claim on taxes multiple years until the 7500? is reached if needed)
Note: I use "rich" because I realize if you are in silicon valley its a whole different economy vs West Virginia etc.
Regardless of how we got there, I believe bringing semiconductor chip development and mfg back onshore is a worthwhile investment. I am very familiar with the history, as my career was in Semiconductor Manufacturing Equipment Corporate Forecast; SAM and TAM.
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Yes, exactly - but all the clown talking heads are scaring people that if we don't raise the debt ceiling people won't get their social security check.
From time to time they have also declared a "payroll tax holiday" which simply cuts the payments to SS so they can boost spending, and hence their re-election chances at the expense of the trust fund.
The entire thing should be pulled back from the federal government completely, because they can't be trusteed with it.
Anyway, way off topic. Sorry. Ford is hosed either way
That won't happen. There is enough tax money coming in daily to the treasury to fund the military payroll and S.S. What they would default on are outstanding old debt payments that come due.
And that would simply roll over into new debt, with more interest to be paid, and possibly some penalties. It's not the end of the world. As some in the media perceive it to be.
I agree regarding semi-conductors, but we're talking apples and hand grenades. Semi-conductors was the furthest thing on my mind.
Word is they make money hand over fist on PHEVs and also produce very few of the cars.
Certain hybrid trucks of theirs are said to have 5 years of unfulfilled demand.
Their “losses” are partially a game, (current losses to fund future product)
partially bad decisions/ wrong product and partially economic factors.
For Ford they should continue EV investment and low volume cars while understanding consumer tastes may dramatically change overnight in the near future making trucks/SUVS/luxury have less demand.
They should also mimick the good part of Toyota with common sense hybrids and PHEVs they can make $$$ on in the near term.
I've also noticed a lot of the people who despise electric cars, look up to Elon as some sort of martyr lately. I don't get it lol.It’s so weird seeing the same member here who said “all dealership employees should be drowned” also hating on Elon Musk. The only person who’s trying to do anything different from the standard dealer model.
Not quite, when the debt limit is hit the Treasury becomes deauthorized alongside a whole host of programs that will be held hostage by “electronic only” numbers on a ledger that aren’t physically backed by anything. The first thing to drop will be state kickbacks which is 70% of government dollars in some areas, alongside state funding goes everything veteran related, followed by the pay to government contractors and assistants which will stop all ports, military production, road & bridge work , levee work and disaster relief, flood insurance payments and air traffic after a few weeks.
This means things like FDIC cease to exist and become inaccessible regardless of how much money is feigned to be in there by extension the Fed itself becomes deauthorized and held hostage to do anything other than modify interest.
This will rapidly block traditional bank borrowing which sends us back to the 1880’s causing large spikes in interest.
The old law that allows assets of a failed bank to be called are still in effect so anyone with a mortgage might get an unpleasant surprise if more banks fail due to the money supply shutting off.
In fact the Fed itself has always had the option to not assume a failed banks ledger, they don’t because thousands of mortgages getting called is unpopular albeit fully legal in the case that nobody intervenes as the bond holders can’t be legally fulfilled any other way.
Without the backing of the fed nobody will touch the toxic debt formed and the inevitable that good paid up mortgages end up dissolved in proxy will happen resulting in a massive uptick in called mortgages that demand an immediate payment in full followed by state courts getting jammed with deed auctions.
Long term 50 nations are working to choose another reserve currency if we default.
This will drive us straight into the 3rd world with 19% interest and an impoverished population with few jobs.
Play stupid games win stupid prizes
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