Ford loses 3 billion on EV

UncleDave said:
We need to move closer to the model Canada uses.



....and protect oil.

Where would you rather invest Trillions - protecting oil, or building out own infrastructure?
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Yep … and protect NG for: heating, cooking, plastics, and industrial uses like pipe mills etc …
 
alarmguy said:
We have that in spades.
Nuclear power and yet the most populated state in this country doesn’t even have the will to build never mind eight nuclear power plants they don’t have the will to build one.
And the one that is operating, they’re shutting down.
Yeah, yet this one state claims to be the most progressive, save the planet state in the country so they burn fossil fuel for electricity.

You could go over to the East Coast and find a state that could care less about so called climate friendly agenda, and yet 60% of their power comes from nuclear energy.
They had two more under construction that failed miserably do to the incompetence of Toshiba Westinghouse.

We control everything, don’t let the media control you. We have vast and best resources of everything we need, but the ignorance of the voters prevent that from happening. Controlled by social media. Our enemies like Communist, China are passing us by
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I mostly agree, we have vast resources and control most things but the price of oil isn't one.
I'm torn on the feds controlling nukes vs independent for profit agents.
Im not sure if nukes are really green or not, but I care little about green, unless it's good business.


4WD said:
Yep … and protect NG for: heating, cooking, plastics, and industrial uses like pipe mills etc …
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Yup - There isnt nearly as much need to protect it as most of it is on our homeland, but yes protect our product in transit.
 
UncleDave said:
I mostly agree, we have vast resources and control most things but the price of oil isn't one.
I'm torn on the feds controlling nukes vs independent for profit agents.
Im not sure if nukes are really green or not, but I care little about green, unless it's good business.




Yup - There isnt nearly as much need to protect it as most of it is on our homeland, but yes protect our product in transit.
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Oh the LNG exports are ramping up …
UncleDave said:
I mostly agree, we have vast resources and control most things but the price of oil isn't one.
I'm torn on the feds controlling nukes vs independent for profit agents.
Im not sure if nukes are really green or not, but I care little about green, unless it's good business.




Yup - There isnt nearly as much need to protect it as most of it is on our homeland, but yes protect our product in transit.
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UncleDave said:
We need to move closer to the model Canada uses.
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Canada is a net exporter of electricity and fossil fuels and yet they pay way more on average for both electricity and gasoline than we do in the USA.

Feel free to move there if you like. The people are really nice, so there is that.
 
SC Maintenance said:
Canada is a net exporter of electricity and fossil fuels and yet they pay way more on average for both electricity and gasoline than we do in the USA.

Feel free to move there if you like. The people are really nice, so there is that.
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I'm specifically talking about their nuke programs lifespan.

They do a much better job with them than we do in the sates and actually get the rated years from the power plant.
 
UncleDave said:
We need to move closer to the model Canada uses.



....and protect oil.

Where would you rather invest Trillions - protecting oil, or building out own infrastructure?
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The government does not need to build infrastructure. Get out of the way of companies that want to.
Huge difference, including that pipeline that is not functioning because of politics, which cannot be discussed, nor fracking, nor any type of energy production under attack by a political party
It’s not even a discussion just use that one state is an example the largest in the country with no nuclear power plants yet they burn 60% or more fossil fuel, generating electricity, and they want to ban the gasoline engine in 12 years. Laughable laughable laughable.
 
PandaBear said:
Every large business use debts to finance investment for future profits, if not EV it would be some other vehicles, equipment for chips, refinery, data center, power plants, oil rigs, etc etc.

If all you do is never borrow a dime and keep milking the cows you eventually get a dying business and the rest of the world would drive you out of business with their debts and investments.

At least they are not borrowing money to pay dividend or share buyback, it is building something for future productivity.
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I understand the concept and need for borrowed money in business. All I'm saying is it is getting very expensive to borrow it.

This slows down the economy, and increases inflation. Neither of which is good for business.
 
alarmguy said:
The government does not need to build infrastructure. Get out of the way of companies that want to.
Huge difference, including that pipeline that is not functioning because of politics, which cannot be discussed, nor fracking, nor any type of energy production under attack by a political party
It’s not even a discussion just use that one state is an example the largest in the country with no nuclear power plants yet they burn 60% or more fossil fuel, generating electricity, and they want to ban the gasoline engine in 12 years. Laughable laughable laughable.
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I loathe to turn anything over to the Feds.

Problem is the independent companies don't do a good a job with it (at least so far) Too much incentive to cut corners, and too little oversight.

I cant recall the nuke plant you brought up in a diff thread that you had to pay for forever, same with San Onofre here in cali - A contractor actually installed a reactor vessel backwards.
 
UncleDave said:
Ok let's ask the question a different way.

Whats been spent on the 5th fleet alone in the last 30 years, and given a choice to spend that at home on our infrastructure or to keep spending it that way which would you chose?
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I am better equipped to determine the $$ number than anyone else on this board - I ran a project team for several years that, among other things, did a mission/function/task analysis, and restructured and re-equipped the numbered fleets, including 5th.

5th fleet, by the way, was established long before our present conflicts.

Since our government exists to provide for the common defense, the 5th fleet budget (which is far smaller than you imagine) is a reasonable expense. The argument that we should, or could, spend the defense dollars on other priorities ignores the mandate for that defense, to include establishment of a Navy (but not, I should point out, an army, which was envisioned to be raised in times of need).

We have chosen to spend less on defense these days than we have at any time in our national history.

We have already answered your question through our spending levels and priorities.
 
Astro14 said:
I am better equipped to determine the $$ number than anyone else on this board - I ran a project team for several years that, among other things, did a mission/function/task analysis, and restructured and re-equipped the numbered fleets, including 5th.

5th fleet, by the way, was established long before our present conflicts.

Since our government exists to provide for the common defense, the 5th fleet budget (which is far smaller than you imagine) is a reasonable expense. The argument that we should, or could, spend the defense dollars on other priorities ignores the mandate for that defense, to include establishment of a Navy (but not, I should point out, an army, which was envisioned to be raised in times of need).

We have chosen to spend less on defense these days than we have at any time in our national history.

We have already answered your question through our spending levels and priorities.
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People forget that one of the most important jobs of the government, is to protect it's citizens against foreign enemies.

We seem to be less able to accomplish that task, the way this present administration basically ignores the military, and spends on everything but.
 
Astro14 said:
I am better equipped to determine the $$ number than anyone else on this board - I ran a project team for several years that, among other things, did a mission/function/task analysis, and restructured and re-equipped the numbered fleets, including 5th.

5th fleet, by the way, was established long before our present conflicts.

Since our government exists to provide for the common defense, the 5th fleet budget (which is far smaller than you imagine) is a reasonable expense. The argument that we should, or could, spend the defense dollars on other priorities ignores the mandate for that defense, to include establishment of a Navy (but not, I should point out, an army, which was envisioned to be raised in times of need).

We have chosen to spend less on defense these days than we have at any time in our national history.

We have already answered your question through our spending levels and priorities.
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Id guess you'd be close to the numbers.

I'm aware the 5th fleet has been around since WWII but its mission has been the Persian Gulf and Arabian seas for a very long time since what 90? 95? What has this particular mission cost us?

I know all theaters participate in oil protection but the 5th is the biggie.

What % of time would you say it spends defending us vs protecting oil?
 
JeffKeryk said:
The world runs on oil. I will leave it up to the gentle reader if that is a good thing or a bad thing.
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If history repeats itself lithium will become the next oil, and this time China will be calling the shots. Time will tell.
 
demarpaint said:
If history repeats itself lithium will become the next oil, and this time China will be calling the shots. Time will tell.
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Current known reserves lead goes to Chile by a long shot. There in the process of nationalizing it. Then Australia. There are a couple other Latin American countries that have a bunch, and the USA and Canada both supposedly have a reasonable amount.
 
SC Maintenance said:
Current known reserves lead goes to Chile by a long shot. There in the process of nationalizing it. Then Australia. There are a couple other Latin American countries that have a bunch, and the USA and Canada both supposedly have a reasonable amount.
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Somehow I see China coming out the winner over the long run, and the US providing protection to countries that have it.
 
demarpaint said:
Somehow I see China coming out the winner over the long run, and the US providing protection to countries that have it.
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Predicting the future is a fools errand, but China has a lot of headwinds. The great industrialization miracle in China happened because the stars aligned - China had millions of young eager workers ready to work for cheap, and Western CEO's were looking for an escape from rising labor costs, and were happy to hand over their intellectual property for short term riches. They crammed 4 generations of industrialization into 1 generation. You only get to do that once.

Now their demographics are aging faster than any other country due to 1 child policy. Labor rates have increased 18X in 30 years - its now twice as expensive labor cost of Vietnam, and 1.5X Mexico. They are not a natural resource rich country, they import a lot of raw materials. They were the processing center for the world on a lot of the materials, but rising energy costs has made that less viable.

I guess we shall see.
 
SC Maintenance said:
Canada is a net exporter of electricity and fossil fuels and yet they pay way more on average for both electricity and gasoline than we do in the USA.

Feel free to move there if you like. The people are really nice, so there is that.
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Actually, I think we generally pay less for electricity presently than many, if not most US states at this juncture, given the recent price increases you folks have seen.

We pay a LOT more for gas than you do.
 
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