Ford Halts Lightning Production for Battery Issues

[LDM]

There are all kinds of use cases where it fits, and as many more where it doesn't.

I know plenty of poeple in my area that do make constant short hops and make numerous short range tows and pretty much every small farm has at least a a 50 amp outlet somewhere so you can start every day "full".

Doesn't sound like you have any actual experience with BEV charging.
On trips you dont charge to full but closer to 80% and its fairly quick 1/2 hour 40 minutes or so.
It's not remotely "many hours" and not even close to half a day before it can be used again as you claim.

The lightning is far from the fastest charger, but it's way better than your claim.
This group has been watching it and I posted speeds in a different thread.

The other big problem beside range with long distance towing and Ev's is the lack of pull through architecture forcing trailer disconnect at most places even if it had the towing range - this issue makes it untenable more so than charging speeds.

Again, highly dependent on your ability to charge. I'm not talking about just the Lightning, there are multiple different vehicles with different size batteries that you seem to be forgetting about. Yes, it can take many hours to charge the larger batteries, even on 240V, and depending on the amp rating. If you are only getting 60-70 miles out of your EV truck when loaded, waiting even 40 minutes would be too long for most people who actually need to get work done.

Again, maybe it works where you are from. It doesn't work here and unless EVs develop a way to charge a battery in 5-10 minutes to a full charge without reducing the life of the batteries, its going to remain a non-starter for people who need to get real work done.

 

[LDM]

There are all kinds of use cases where it fits, and as many more where it doesn't.

I know plenty of poeple in my area that do make constant short hops and make numerous short range tows and pretty much every small farm has at least a a 50 amp outlet somewhere so you can start every day "full".

Doesn't sound like you have any actual experience with BEV charging.
On trips you dont charge to full but closer to 80% and its fairly quick 1/2 hour 40 minutes or so.
It's not remotely "many hours" and not even close to half a day before it can be used again as you claim.

The lightning is far from the fastest charger, but it's way better than your claim.
This group has been watching it and I posted speeds in a different thread.

The other big problem beside range with long distance towing and Ev's is the lack of pull through architecture forcing trailer disconnect at most places even if it had the towing range - this issue makes it untenable more so than charging speeds.

I spent a few minutes looking up the charging info for the Ford SunRun charger that they have for home use.

Fast as lightning Full charge in only 8 hours!
The 80-amp Ford Charge Station Pro provides you 30 miles of driving for every hour your Extended-Range F-150 Lightning™ is plugged in.1

So, 8 hours to fully charge the battery at home. Sounds like a lot more than 40 minutes to me.

 

[UncleDave]

I spent a few minutes looking up the charging info for the Ford SunRun charger that they have for home use.

Fast as lightning Full charge in only 8 hours!
The 80-amp Ford Charge Station Pro provides you 30 miles of driving for every hour your Extended-Range F-150 Lightning™ is plugged in.1

So, 8 hours to fully charge the battery at home. Sounds like a lot more than 40 minutes to me.

Your charge time claims in post 37 doesn't hold any water for a modern BEV

Home charging overnight to full is not a DC travel charger.

Fords claim on a suitable charger is 41 minutes from 15-80%

Heres a 3rd party test - pretty close.

Nothing remotely like your claims.

 

[UncleDave]

...and this is why you dont charge past 80% when traveling

 

[DwightFrye]

When an automaker wants to compete in the EV marketplace but doesn't have the capital necessary to really go whole hog into the necessary R&D and production line changes, we see these kinds of issues. Not that Ford's ICE lineup doesn't have a long history of rather serious issues for a company that has been around for 110 years either.

 

[LDM]

Your charge time claims in post 37 doesn't hold any water for a modern BEV

Home charging overnight to full is not a DC travel charger.

Fords claim on a suitable charger is 41 minutes from 15-80%

Heres a 3rd party test - pretty close.

Nothing remotely like your claims.

Yes, they do. Thats great if you happen to have somewhere to charge the thing using that type of Fast charger. If all you have is your home (which is the only thing you are going to find in my area), it takes the hours that I said it does to get it to a reasonable charge to use. This info is right from Ford's website, so unless you have something that magically contradicts what I'm saying about home charging at 240V, you are still wrong.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I spent a few minutes looking up the charging info for the Ford SunRun charger that they have for home use.

Fast as lightning Full charge in only 8 hours!
The 80-amp Ford Charge Station Pro provides you 30 miles of driving for every hour your Extended-Range F-150 Lightning™ is plugged in.1

So, 8 hours to fully charge the battery at home. Sounds like a lot more than 40 minutes to me.

Can it take 8 hours to charge a big battery? Sure, if the battery is nearly depleted, you charge to 100% and you are using a NEMA 14-50 at home. I don't know the actual charging speed on these trucks, but I get 28 to 32 MPH on our Model 3 at home. And the fuel cost is nothing.
On a Supercharger, it is much faster.

The use case you cited on post #41 is obviously not a good case for an EV pickup. No different than a big engine pickup that is only used to haul kids to school and around town.

 

[LDM]

...and this is why you dont charge past 80% when traveling

View attachment 140522

Once again, 350kW Fast charging. Not charging at home. Has nothing to do with what I'm talking about when there are not 350kW charging available in your area.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Yes, they do. Thats great if you happen to have somewhere to charge the thing using that type of Fast charger. If all you have is your home (which is the only thing you are going to find in my area), it takes the hours that I said it does to get it to a reasonable charge to use. This info is right from Ford's website, so unless you have something that magically contradicts what I'm saying about home charging at 240V, you are still wrong.

You understand that people charge at night when rates are low and the vehicle is not in use.

 

[LDM]

You understand that people charge at night when rates are low and the vehicle is not in use.

Yes, if you aren't using all your battery charge in 60 miles. My statement was very clear about using an EV truck for real work, towing and hauling, where the mileage available drops to 60-70 miles on a full charge. You can drive that in an hour during a day of work. So you drive an hour, you need to stop and charge the vehicle back up to a full charge before you can use it again to get back to your original location. So, assuming you have a 350kW Fast Charger available, its going to be 40+ minutes, if you all you have is 240V at 30-50 amps, its going to be 8+ hours.

You think someone has that as an option for this when they have a days worth of work to do, more than 60 miles to drive?

 

[UncleDave]

Yes, they do. Thats great if you happen to have somewhere to charge the thing using that type of Fast charger. If all you have is your home (which is the only thing you are going to find in my area), it takes the hours that I said it does to get it to a reasonable charge to use. This info is right from Ford's website, so unless you have something that magically contradicts what I'm saying about home charging at 240V, you are still wrong.

Where in illinois are you.

 

[oggb]

My statement was very clear about using an EV truck for real work, towing and hauling, where the mileage available drops to 60-70 miles on a full charge.

Anyone that "needs" a truck for real work almost certainly understands the limitations and knows that an EV truck isn't for them. They don't need anyone on BITOG arguing against EV half tons for them

A huge number of half ton pickups are just lifestyle vehicles that are being used exactly how @UncleDave said:

If all you do is pick up a bit of feed from town 20-30 miles away, or tow horses 20-30 miles to a trailhead, and drive to and from town with people

^And those are the people EV trucks are for. Probably nearly the same demographic as the Maverick.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Yes, if you aren't using all your battery charge in 60 miles. My statement was very clear about using an EV truck for real work, towing and hauling, where the mileage available drops to 60-70 miles on a full charge. You can drive that in an hour during a day of work. So you drive an hour, you need to stop and charge the vehicle back up to a full charge before you can use it again to get back to your original location. So, assuming you have a 350kW Fast Charger available, its going to be 40+ minutes, if you all you have is 240V at 30-50 amps, its going to be 8+ hours.

You think someone has that as an option for this when they have a days worth of work to do, more than 60 miles to drive?

Again, no one is saying EVs are right for every use case. No vehicle is. I had a friend buy a beautiful, big diesel Dodge for his tile setting business. Then diesel fuel went through the roof. He couldn't afford to feed it and regretted his expensive purchase.
In his case, a fuel efficient, smaller truck would have been perfect. The nice thing about EVs is, they don't suck the gas waiting in traffic.

 

[UncleDave]

Once again, 350kW Fast charging. Not charging at home. Has nothing to do with what I'm talking about when there are not 350kW charging available in your area.

Your post 37 is somewhat confusing. You cannot drive 60 miles and still charge at home, but you are quoting only home charging.

I differentiated the two quite clearly.

Note what the truck actually takes - you do not need a 350KW charger thats simply what this test was done on.

The truck barely swallowed half that.

Where do you live in illinois - let's see whats actually available just for snicks.

 

[LDM]

Your post 37 is somewhat confusing. You cannot drive 60 miles and still charge at home, but you are quoting only home charging.

I differentiated the two quite clearly.

Note what the truck actually takes - you do not need a 350KW charger thats simply what this test was done on.

The truck barely swallowed half that.

Where do you live in illinois - let's see whats actually available just for snicks.

Central IL. Let me know when you find 350Kw chargers at the farms or small towns in this area. You can differentiate the chargers all you want, in the end if you are planning on doing anything in this area, you aren't finding any 350kW chargers in the middle of the farms and small towns here. Its not confusing at all if you read it properly. My statement is correct no matter how you try to spin it or anyone else for that matter.

The Ford trucks are limited to 155Kw charging anyway, per their website. The standard mobile charger is limited to 30 amps at 110V or 220V.

he extended-range F-150 Lightning vehicles are both alternating current (AC) and DC adaptable with a 19.2kW onboard charger and are designed to charge quickly on a DC fast charger, allowing a controlled boost up to 155kW. The standard-range F-150 Lightning vehicles are also AC and DC adaptable with an 11.3 kW onboard charger and are designed to charge quickly on a DC fast charger, allowing controlled boost up to 120kW

 

[UncleDave]

"

Central IL. Let me know when you find 350Kw chargers at the farms or small towns in this area. You can differentiate the chargers all you want, in the end if you are planning on doing anything in this area, you aren't finding any 350kW chargers in the middle of the farms and small towns here. Its not confusing at all if you read it properly. My statement is correct no matter how you try to spin it or anyone else for that matter.

The Ford trucks are limited to 155Kw charging anyway, per their website. The standard mobile charger is limited to 30 amps at 110V or 220V.

he extended-range F-150 Lightning vehicles are both alternating current (AC) and DC adaptable with a 19.2kW onboard charger and are designed to charge quickly on a DC fast charger, allowing a controlled boost up to 155kW. The standard-range F-150 Lightning vehicles are also AC and DC adaptable with an 11.3 kW onboard charger and are designed to charge quickly on a DC fast charger, allowing controlled boost up to 120kW

"No one is going to drive for 60 miles and then wait for a 1/2 days for the truck to be charged back up to use it again for another 60 miles."

That didnt imply charging at home to me. Maybe it was clear to you and everyone else here.

I completely agree if all you have is your house it's going to take a long time.

Not sure where I said you could find 350KW chargers?

IF by central you mean dead smack in the middle here's 200KW units

On the real work front - everyone decides that for themselves. A transmission/ engine shop, some tires, anything needing a bed only these work great - IF YOU CAN CHARGE IN YOUR NEEDED TIMEFRAME.

 

[Cujet]

...and this is why you don't charge past 80% when traveling

It's also why stated "highway" range numbers are utterly useless. As it is utterly impractical to use 100% of the battery. I can say from experience that 10% is about as low as one will want to go. So the best real world case is a 70% capacity use per leg of a trip.

C+D got 230 out of the bigger battery on a highway range test. 70% of that is an earth shattering 161 miles. And that requires 47 minutes of charge time.

 

[2strokeNorthstar]

Well that must be where they send them all then, I've only seen a couple Rivian in my area and I live less than an hour away from the plant here in IL. And yes, they are never doing anything that a truck does, just one person driving them around. I suppose enjoy them while they last, the people I know who work or have worked at the plant say it won't be around much longer.

They have been around So Cal even before the launch. They were testing them between Barstow and Las Vegas or close to it. I guess if they can survive that hell hole they can survive a normal environment. I even saw a few up in the Sierras. I guess they work at 10 degrees buried in snow, at least for a little while.

 

[UncleDave]

It's also why stated "highway" range numbers are utterly useless. As it is utterly impractical to use 100% of the battery. I can say from experience that 10% is about as low as one will want to go. So the best real world case is a 70% capacity use per leg of a trip.

C+D got 230 out of the bigger battery on a highway range test. 70% of that is an earth shattering 161 miles. And that requires 47 minutes of charge time.

Best I could manage was the overnight 100% then the first outbound trip from 100 to about 10%.

From then on it was 70%.

 

[Torrid]

If I had to constantly be road tripping I'd probably just take my GTI and so far on all my longer trips which happen more than I'd like that's what I do. That's not to say I couldn't do it in the Tesla, it would just take a hint more planning. Now for us the way we use the Tesla it's perfect for us. We're taking a bit of a trip today that ends back at home at the end of the day. We'll likely use about half or a little more of the battery and then charge again at home. It just topped up to 100% in the garage and we're leaving in about an hour. That alone for me beats stopping for gas.

I'm not one of those people that think everything should be electric, but I do prefer some efficiency and excess waste drives me nuts. It's why I don't have a full size truck anymore. Unneeded gas burnt when 95% of the time I was the only one in the vehicle. In 5 years I can think of 3 times I carried more than what my current car can handle, though I did use it to go off-road somewhat regularly. That could be fun, but that was my way of entertaining myself with the type of vehicle it was, not because I needed to go off-road. I found it just wasn't my preferred type of vehicle and even to go electric which would likely work fine for me for a truck, I just don't want something that big these days.