Forbes-General Motors Is Headed For Bankruptcy

[440Magnum]

While I've always begrudged Fiat's involvement with Chrysler, in truth I prefer that to the situation GM is in. The government shouldn't be owning a stake in companies, period.

As far as the article- I think its a bit overblown for drama, but it is a real concern. And they didn't even address future Chrysler/Fiat D-segment competition to GM in the article, and while it might not be as much market share as Toyota... its still another chunk of a diminishing-sized pie.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: itguy08
They need to get their stuff together like Ford and Chrysler


I agree with you about Ford, but Chrysler? I'm still laughing about that one!

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: itguy08

Outside of the Camaro (which is starting to look dated), what great product has GM introduced? Volt sales are lagging, the new Impala looks like another Rental Queen.


I don't think the Camaro looks dated, I think it looks like it got stepped on by Optimus Prime. But ugly or not, its selling like mad. And its already slated for a new platform, though I think the benefit "new platform" is overstated. The Chrysler LX/LC platform is positively ancient by modern standards at 7 years, but it *still* is the best or near-best in its segment when objective performance tests are used. Its the one good thing Chrysler got from Benz.

Cadillac is on fire compared to the way we'd written it off completely in the 90s. But admittedly its a flagship brand and will never be the biggest revenue stream for GM.

GM/Chevy trucks are rock solid, and the D-max has done a lot better than I ever expected it to do against the Cummins Ram and Ford (although the Ford 6.0/6.4 may have been the D-max's biggest friend rather than a competitor :-/ ). I've gone on record here as saying that the D-max has the best handle on the new diesel emissions systems of any of the big 3. Truck sales are a big profit center for all of the big 3, which is why Toyota has been trying so hard to break into that segment.

Lagging sales or not, the Volt is one of the best plug-in hybrids out there. The Prius has a longer track record overall (though not as a plug-in), but it rides and drives like its got 80s Tercel suspension tech under it. The volt, at least, feels like a higher-end product. If they can knock the Volt price down, it will take off. And some of the features it has through Onstar have a high nerd-appeal.

I've still got concerns about GM, but I think you may be overstating the bad and overlooking some of the better parts of the lineup.

 

[4x4chevydude]

GM seems to be doing fine, Forbes is just bashing the one GM car that they apparently think is lacking...they neglect to mention that the GM trucks get the best MPG of their competitors....i think this was poorly written and they should actually research before they write something although I do believe its true that they just wanted to bash Obama for the bailout so they used this....wonder how many people will buy this [censored]

 

[NateDN10]

I do think he has a point about the '13 Malibu and Akerson vs. Lutz.

However, I think he went way overboard in his prediction of another bailout within 4 years!

 

[VicVinegar]

Here is the thing though. For GM to survive:
- They don't need the Corvette to be a world beater.
- They don't need the Camaro to beat the Shelby GT500.
- They don't need to sell a ton of Volts. It was really just a "look what we can do" exercise. Hopefully the tech can be used elsewhere.
- The Caddy "V" cars don't need to compete with AMG and //M.

What they need to do is continue selling a ton of Silverados, Equinoxes, Cruzes, Malibus, and Impalas; and keep selling a bunch of Buicks in China. It seems like they are doing that.

In the area I live in, people seem to avoid domestic cars. I probably see more Audi A4s on an average day than Chevy Malibus. Yet I realized the other day that I am seeing Cruzes everywhere. It seems that people like me who have a long commute seem to be ditching the Honda/Toyota and getting a Cruze.

As a bonus, they finally have pumped some life into Buick again and the Caddy ATS looks like a winner.

I'm just saying that Toyota was/is successful because of the Camry, not the Supra. There are plenty of people out there who need a sedan and are only buying domestic, and while the Fusion may be cooler looking, they may like the Malibu better. I've seen the new Malibu since someone in my neighborhood works at a Chevy dealer, it is a nice looking sedan. Its looks certainly won't lose any sales.

All of the domestic brands are doing better IMO. I've usually leaned Japanese when considering cars for myself, but if I had to buy today, I'd have to check out a Ford and Chevy dealer before making my decision. I wouldn't have said that with the previous Focus/Fusion or Cobalt and Malibu before the outgoing model.

 

[stephen9666]

Originally Posted By: Smoky14
I was disappointed to hear that GM, post bailout moved 70% of operations to China.


I would need to see some reliable information before I believe this. This seems very inaccurate to me.

Got any links to reliable web sources?

 

[sleddriver]

Opel in Europe is GM's financial albatross:
http://nlpc.org/stories/2012/08/16/auto-bailout-legacy-gms-european-nightmare.

Interesting how management wanted to sell it off but was 'influenced' not to.

 

[antiqueshell]

Some of the best development and engineering comes from Opel that is a primary reason why GM decided not to unload it.

See, you many of you guys are short term thinkers, just like most business types in the USA, in the long run once they stream line Opel it will be a very important asset and of course GM still sells tons of cars in Europe that are Opel products.

Short term thinking by management led to GMs troubles in the first place.

 

[artificialist]

I knew this was going to happen years ago.

Anyway, there is only so much GM can do when they have a large number of the following people:
1. People who were sold a bad car in the past, and take no chances in the future.
2. People who don't like corporate welfare.

The other thing that bothers me that that state owned enterprises and business bailouts are fascism, but nobody wants to talk about that element of fascism.

 

[sleddriver]

Quote:
Opel..has not been profitable for more than a decade

Quote:
And as if the misdeeds and mistakes couldn't get worse, GM tied itself up in an equity alliance with the only other automaker in the region in as bad or worse shape than Opel, Peugeot. GM just made the shocking admission with an SEC filing that it will likely have to write-down the investment as a loss since Peugeot's stock price has also fallen off a cliff with little or no hope of recovery.

 

[rshaw125]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Some of the best development and engineering comes from Opel that is a primary reason why GM decided not to unload it.

See, you many of you guys are short term thinkers, just like most business types in the USA, in the long run once they stream line Opel it will be a very important asset and of course GM still sells tons of cars in Europe that are Opel products.

Short term thinking by management led to GMs troubles in the first place.



That's not the reason they did not sell it. The facts of the bailout slowly trickle out. Now it is just a matter of how many billions the taxpayer was duped out of. We'll probably never know.

 

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: VicVinegar
Here is the thing though. For GM to survive:
- They don't need the Corvette to be a world beater.
- They don't need the Camaro to beat the Shelby GT500.
- They don't need to sell a ton of Volts. It was really just a "look what we can do" exercise. Hopefully the tech can be used elsewhere.
- The Caddy "V" cars don't need to compete with AMG and //M.

What they need to do is continue selling a ton of Silverados, Equinoxes, Cruzes, Malibus, and Impalas; and keep selling a bunch of Buicks in China. It seems like they are doing that.

In the area I live in, people seem to avoid domestic cars. I probably see more Audi A4s on an average day than Chevy Malibus. Yet I realized the other day that I am seeing Cruzes everywhere. It seems that people like me who have a long commute seem to be ditching the Honda/Toyota and getting a Cruze.

As a bonus, they finally have pumped some life into Buick again and the Caddy ATS looks like a winner.

I'm just saying that Toyota was/is successful because of the Camry, not the Supra. There are plenty of people out there who need a sedan and are only buying domestic, and while the Fusion may be cooler looking, they may like the Malibu better. I've seen the new Malibu since someone in my neighborhood works at a Chevy dealer, it is a nice looking sedan. Its looks certainly won't lose any sales.

All of the domestic brands are doing better IMO. I've usually leaned Japanese when considering cars for myself, but if I had to buy today, I'd have to check out a Ford and Chevy dealer before making my decision. I wouldn't have said that with the previous Focus/Fusion or Cobalt and Malibu before the outgoing model.


I'm noticing the same thing around here.

So I asked someone I know who works at a GM dealer, yep they are pushing a lot of product. the Cruze and 2012 Regal are very popular.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: rshaw125
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Some of the best development and engineering comes from Opel that is a primary reason why GM decided not to unload it.

See, you many of you guys are short term thinkers, just like most business types in the USA, in the long run once they stream line Opel it will be a very important asset and of course GM still sells tons of cars in Europe that are Opel products.

Short term thinking by management led to GMs troubles in the first place.



That's not the reason they did not sell it. The facts of the bailout slowly trickle out. Now it is just a matter of how many billions the taxpayer was duped out of. We'll probably never know.


What about the corporate welfare at Lockeheed Martin, Boeing, various defense contractors, no different and that nonsense has been going on far longer than the GM issue. I'm not saying I happy about it, but economic fascism has been occurring in the US for a LONG LONG time.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: VicVinegar
I'm just saying that Toyota was/is successful because of the Camry, not the Supra. There are plenty of people out there who need a sedan and are only buying domestic, and while the Fusion may be cooler looking, they may like the Malibu better.


This is a real gem, you understand the car biz. All the "buzz worthy" cars are just a halo effect. The boring mundane people movers are what makes real profits.

My good friend Neil just got a new 2012 Malibu and I must say it seems impressive after a short drive.

 

[mrsilv04]

Originally Posted By: stephen9666
Originally Posted By: Smoky14
I was disappointed to hear that GM, post bailout moved 70% of operations to China.


I would need to see some reliable information before I believe this. This seems very inaccurate to me.

Got any links to reliable web sources?


Here's as close as I was able to get to that claim:

"Already 72% of the company's vehicle sales already are generated outside the U.S."

http://money.cnn.com/2010/08/25/autos/gm_overseas_expansion.fortune/index.htm

"Dan Akerson, CEO of GM, says that seven out of 10 GM automobiles are built outside the U.S."

http://www.tradereform.org/2012/06/gm-producing-70-of-autos-outside-us/

 

[Hootbro]

Government just needs to get out of propping up these car companies. It is very simple economics, either they build a product people will buy or they go under failing.

Companies rise and fall all the time. This "to big to fail" stuff is just shoring up the Union vote on the tax payers dime and nothing else.

 

[rshaw125]

Originally Posted By: Hootbro
Government just needs to get out of propping up these car companies. It is very simple economics, either they build a product people will buy or they go under failing.

Companies rise and fall all the time. This "to big to fail" stuff is just shoring up the Union vote on the tax payers dime and nothing else.


You're right. The taxpayer stock should be sold and Congress should pass a law that forbids the Federal Government from bailing out any entity in the future.

 

[440Magnum]

Personally I think as many or more good ideas are coming from Holden than from Opel. And Holden was (quietly) remaining profitable all through the bailout. I'm not saying "ditch Opel," but its getting close to that point.

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: 4x4chevydude
they neglect to mention that the GM trucks get the best MPG of their competitors


Not neglect, fact. With the new engine lineup, Ford has the MPG race won. You can see that at www.fueleconomy.gov.