For the traffic enforcers out there

PRND3L · Jul 25, 2006

a very nice local officer let me off with a verbal warning for doing 20 over the speed limit a couple of weeks ago. I felt fortunate.

Others LEOs in the past haven't been so pleasant towards me. I understand that they deal with liars & general scum every day and that it hardens them to everybody.

Totally agree with Groucho -- "yes sir, no ma'am" is the only way to go.

user00000 · Jul 25, 2006

quote:

The Lousy Cop

"Well, Mr. Citizen, it seems you've figured me out. I seem to fit neatly into the category where you've placed me. I'm stereotyped, standardized, characterized, classified, grouped, and always typical. Unfortunately, the reverse is true I can never figure you out.

From birth you teach your children that I'm the bogeyman, then you're shocked when they identify with my traditional enemy ... the criminal!

You accuse me of coddling criminals......until I catch your kids doing wrong.

You may take an hour for lunch and several coffee breaks each day, but point me out as a loafer for having one cup.

You pride yourself on your manners, but think nothing of disrupting my meals with your troubles.

You raise **** with the guy who cuts you off in traffic, but let me catch you doing the same thing and I'm picking on you. You know all the traffic laws...but you've never gotten a single ticket you deserve.

You shout "foul" if you observe me driving fast to a call, but raise the roof if I take more than ten seconds to respond to your complaint. You call it part of my job if someone strikes me, but call it police brutality if I strike back.

You wouldn't think of telling your dentist how to pull a tooth or your doctor how to take out an appendix, yet you're always willing to give me pointers on the law.

You talk to me in a manner that would get you a bloody nose from anyone else, but expect me to take it without batting an eye. You yell something's got to be done to fight crime, but you can't be bothered to get involved.

You have no use for me at all, but of course it's OK if I change a flat for your wife, deliver your child in the back of the patrol car, or perhaps save your son's life with mouth to mouth breathing, or work many hours overtime looking for your lost daughter.

So, Mr. Citizen, you can stand there on your soapbox and rant and rave about the way I do my work, calling me every name in the book, but never stop to think that your property, family, or maybe even your life depends on me or one of my buddies.

Yes, Mr. Citizen, it's me...the lousy cop!"

Author Unknown

[ July 26, 2006, 11:14 AM: Message edited by: user00000 ]

adam123 · Jul 25, 2006

I dont mind cops in general at all. I just can't stand DOT's they always wanna hassle me every freaking time. I got pulled for 1mph over the speed limit just enough so they could hassle with me for about an hour. That was last week.

adam123 · Jul 25, 2006

Nice story tho I must say.
wantin150 - Sorry for the losses.

mechtech · Jul 25, 2006

We can not get away with a crappy attitude toward cops.
They can and do get away with crappy attitudes toward us.
In a court of law, their opinion is upheld over a civilian's, all other things equal. That's a tremendous advantage to have in court, and this 'never wrong' attitute is often displayed to the public on the street.

wantin150 · Jul 25, 2006

quote:

Originally posted by mechtech:
We can not get away with a crappy attitude toward cops.
They can and do get away with crappy attitudes toward us.
In a court of law, their opinion is upheld over a civilian's, all other things equal. That's a tremendous advantage to have in court, and this 'never wrong' attitute is often displayed to the public on the street.

Not speaking at/to anyone in general.

Here again, we are reminded of the "all powerful" officer. How many times does the average citizen go before a judge? Once, twice? How many times does the average officer go before a judge? Fifty + at a shot!

I used to write, on average, 100 cases for a court date. Of that 100, 50 might pay, 25 would fail to show, and 25 would appear. There is something called "credibility". My conviction rate was probably 95% + with the 5% being nol pros or accident dismissals and a few bench trials or jury trials I lost. We prosecuted every one of our cases except General Sessions.

And FYI, cops don't "get away" with attitudes. They get complaints and then they get lashed at by their supervisors. Too many complaints and it could be IA or suspension or dismissal. And to try to set something straight, many of those "complaints" are just a way to try to get the officer in trouble because the person got ticked they got a ticket. I had someone try to ruin my career over such a complaint. Video and audio don't lie.

And for the record, my decision to write a ticket or warning was made before I even walked up to the car. Your attitude made little difference. My "goal", if you will, was to make you feel stupid for acting like an idiot when I wrote you a warning. And please understand that a ticket is a "polite" summons to answer a charge. There are other alternatives. It isn't a conspiracy folks. The cops aren't out to get you, sorry to burst a bubble. If you feel so strongly about your case, take it to a jury. That's why the system is designed that way. If you feel that you were treated unjustly, file a complaint. Just don't sit there and bad mouth those people you pay to protect you unless you plan to go the whole way and follow through.

OriginHacker21 · Jul 25, 2006

I've been pulled over twice. First time was a citation for the "tinted" windows (didn't go on record) - California Highway Patrol. Cop was normal - very calm.

Second time pulled over by a small town cop in Iowa going 32mph in a 30mph. She was obviously looking for drunks as I got a flashlight in the face for a minute. Only got a warning.

After hearing stories from friends - it seems to me that most police officers respond to your attitude - the first impression. If you are upset or angry - they'll probably return the favor. In my cases - if you are respectful, polite - you get treated the same way. Obviously, this doesn't apply to corrupt cops. Maybe departments don't do enough to weed these power hungry people out?

I have great respect for the police in general - many good friends are police officers. There are always horrible people in every branch of work...

ShortBuSX · Jul 25, 2006

quote:

You guys have bad days? Yep, that's right, cops do to. Maybe the guy had an important case thrown out because someone forgot to cross an "i" or dot a "t". Maybe the guy just found out that one of his buddies was hurt, killed, assaulted, etc while on the job. Maybe he didn't even get a chance to eat lunch or dinner that night. Maybe he just spent 2 hours doing a report for a $5 mailbox. Maybe he just worked a bad accident where a child was injured or a family was destroyed.

Boohoo!
Yes we all have bad days...we usually get tickets on those days(late for work, etc.)...the law isnt on our "side" on OUR "bad days" though.

When we have bad days, its not like the first thing thats asked, "are you having a bad day?"...and if I was, would you let me off?

When you goto a convience store and your service isnt as pleasnat as youd like, certainly "having a bad day" isnt relivent, is it?

What if the clerk is new, and doesnt realize you are a cop and denies your free coffee? Do you criticize the service? Is this not your "right"?

What is it that makes police feel that they should be free of critisizm or critics?

In general people dont like cops...this is nothing new, you knew this as child/kid/adolecent...so why is it a surprise to you as an adult, now that youve made this your carreer?

"Saving lives"? Come on now...its not like you are firefighters. "Saving lives" is a SMALL portion compaired to the arrests for victumless crimes.

Interupt your meal? Would this be a free or reduced meal? I know doctors and firefighters usually pay full price...and I doubt theyd complain, after all its part of the "oath"!

Police cars...there have got to be over 20%(if not 50%) more police cars here in the US than ever before...how come I see fewer on patrol than ever before? Certainly there is an officer(or more) per car? One might expect to see one on "every corner"...but instead I see more and more at residences, parked in reverse, at home.(I have to pay for my commute)...being able to take a car home often gets the cop tenant a reduced rate on rent...AND a free commute???

And my final rant about police, is the PBA!!! Police Benevolent Association!!! Telemarketers calling for handouts for the police!!! In the guise of "benifits" for officers, ***? Police officers retire pretty **** good! Why would I pay for cop benifits? And why would anybody pay somebody full time wages to call around and ask for money?

Who pays for the "police olympics"?
Is a "Police Hall of Fame" really necissarry?

Im sorry for my rant, I totally appologize for breaking forum rules...but it makes me upset, there is nothing a citizen can do(vote? Give me a break!)...and as a citizen, do you feel that you can take your critisizms and complaints to anyone? And feel that they will be addressed without any reprocussions? As police, you are (almost) above the law...and there is very little that can be done to control the machine.

Rant over...and sorry.

PS They are still using empty cruisers as decoys on I-95, 4 months later!!!

Once again sorry for the critisizm, but these are agencies in dire need of reform!

...and I have nowhere else to vent my frustrations about this...so sorry.

wantin150 · Jul 25, 2006

Jimbo,

If you define police misconduct as "bad attitude", then our definitions are quite different. Society needs people to complain and help weed out the bad officers...without a doubt. My definition of misconduct is criminal activity, not bad attitude.

Law Enforcement has it's issues and yes, they start at the top. Proper training is a big step in preventing some of the major issues with misconduct. The unfortunate thing is that sometimes the good officers are the ones who leave because of these issues, pay, family or whatever. The bad officers don't care and will continue their ways until someone speaks up.

My big thing is that you have no reason to gripe about officer's attitudes unless you are willing to follow through.

I am not excusing anything

Gary Allan · Jul 25, 2006

quote:

Originally posted by GROUCHO MARX:
"Yes officer" and "no officer" are the best way to handle any dealings with police.

I hate to say it, but responses that fall short of this could get you into a large hassle.

I try to impress this upon all younger people in my life. It hasn't gotten through 100% and some hard lessons have been learned.

This tends to work well. I was always a "yes sir" type guy. Usually immediately pulled over when I saw the car tailing me (why wait for the lights

). It's served me well as a youngster. One Maryland State Trooper liked me so much (talk about speed enforcement in the 70's) he gave me a token to get back on the highway. I was a very polite dirtball. I usually got out of the car right away. They never seemed to object. I assume it was since they could see upfront that I was unarmed

I don't know if I'd do that now, though.

I guess I'm just getting grumpy in my advancing age. You stack up a bunch of "why did I put up with that"'s about now.

user00000 · Jul 25, 2006

ShortBuSX,

I'll address only this part of your rant since you are painting with a very broad brush and, since it's time to get ready to go to work, it would take too long to rebut each point properly.

quote:

What if the clerk is new, and doesnt realize you are a cop and denies your free coffee? Do you criticize the service? Is this not your "right"?

No, it is not a right and I don't take freebies, even when it means throwing the money onto the counter of a clerk who insists that I don't pay. It's actually very amusing because the veteran clerks at my regular coffee joint tell the new clerks that "he's the one that insists on paying for his coffee".

Please don't paint all of us as bad guys unless you are willing to have the same done to you by all cops. While paying for my coffee doesn't automatically qualify me as a good guy, it might be an indicator that not all cops are out there only to see what they can get away with.

ShortBuSX · Jul 25, 2006

quote:

And FYI, cops don't "get away" with attitudes. They get complaints and then they get lashed at by their supervisors. Too many complaints and it could be IA or suspension or dismissal. And to try to set something straight, many of those "complaints" are just a way to try to get the officer in trouble because the person got ticked they got a ticket. I had someone try to ruin my career over such a complaint. Video and audio don't lie.

quote:

Originally posted by wantin150:
Jimbo,

My big thing is that you have no reason to gripe about officer's attitudes unless you are willing to follow through.

Why complain or follow through? When its a "cops word" against the accused? Its already been stated that in a court of law everybody takes the cops word over the person who "rarely even sees a court room" or doesnt know the workings of the system...you even have the ability to speak in public on your side.

And who would take a person whos being arrested or ticketed's testimony over a cop? Youd totally have to be innocent, never convicted, never arrested...youd have to be a nun or a monk!(or a real moron!)

I take your challenge "to follow through" almost a taunt, a thumbing of the nose...a future plan of revenge/retalliation for the complaint. Really, whos going to complain but the insainly stupid?

And for the cop who said "its not like we are out to get you"...that statement is truely laughable in soooo many ways!!!

Gary Allan · Jul 26, 2006

Well, I can't say that this is always true. I was caught speeding. The guy waited until the speed zone dipped to 35mph so he could write a larger ticket. I went to the court. He brought the expired certification for the vehicle. He asked for a continuance to get the proper document. I objected stating that he had ample time to prepare. The JP agreed ...case closed.

Now if it came to "he says vs. you say" ..sure. It's going to typically go in his favor. The judge has the reasonable expectation that the officer just didn't stop you for no good reason. This would be very hard to rationalize any other way. Now how you act can surely impact the officers disposition toward a sympathetic JP. That is, the judge may be willing to reduce the fine ..depending ..but if the officer is determined to not allow this to occur ..the judge typically will not buck his feelings in the matter. At that point you're arguing a "lessening of guilt" ..i.e. getting a break.

One odd thing ..and this will tell you that you can surely make enemies within your dept ..I was broke down and a state trooper, on way to a hearing, stopped ...had the dispatcher make a call home for me. I wrote a letter to the barracks commander telling how helpful he was (I read name tags). About two months later, we get a call asking if he was abusive or whatever. Obviously the letter had made it in his file and they referrenced it in an attempt to gather evidence to **** can him for some reason.

Gary Allan · Jul 26, 2006

quote:

Police officers retire pretty **** good! Why would I pay for cop benifits?

Because it's part of the costs of an orderly society. You've got to get someone to do the work and the mortality rate, although not high, is a tick above being a janitor or librarian. I would imagine that there can be some stress related side effects that can clip a few years off the top end. I imagine that a "satisfactory" retirement is one of the incentives to go into such work by those who truly belong there (a serious, committed, individual ..no matter what they went into). The ones that don't belong there don't see those as benefits. They see the cars, lights, carrying a gun, and having authority as the main perks. They would do it for nothing if it was legal ..but if you can get paid for it ...great.

wantin150 · Jul 26, 2006

quote:

Originally posted by ShortBuSX:

quote:

You guys have bad days? Yep, that's right, cops do to. Maybe the guy had an important case thrown out because someone forgot to cross an "i" or dot a "t". Maybe the guy just found out that one of his buddies was hurt, killed, assaulted, etc while on the job. Maybe he didn't even get a chance to eat lunch or dinner that night. Maybe he just spent 2 hours doing a report for a $5 mailbox. Maybe he just worked a bad accident where a child was injured or a family was destroyed.

Click to expand...

Boohoo!
Yes we all have bad days...we usually get tickets on those days(late for work, etc.)...the law isnt on our "side" on OUR "bad days" though.

When we have bad days, its not like the first thing thats asked, "are you having a bad day?"...and if I was, would you let me off?

When you goto a convience store and your service isnt as pleasnat as youd like, certainly "having a bad day" isnt relivent, is it?

What if the clerk is new, and doesnt realize you are a cop and denies your free coffee? Do you criticize the service? Is this not your "right"?

What is it that makes police feel that they should be free of critisizm or critics?

In general people dont like cops...this is nothing new, you knew this as child/kid/adolecent...so why is it a surprise to you as an adult, now that youve made this your carreer?

"Saving lives"? Come on now...its not like you are firefighters. "Saving lives" is a SMALL portion compaired to the arrests for victumless crimes.

Interupt your meal? Would this be a free or reduced meal? I know doctors and firefighters usually pay full price...and I doubt theyd complain, after all its part of the "oath"!

Police cars...there have got to be over 20%(if not 50%) more police cars here in the US than ever before...how come I see fewer on patrol than ever before? Certainly there is an officer(or more) per car? One might expect to see one on "every corner"...but instead I see more and more at residences, parked in reverse, at home.(I have to pay for my commute)...being able to take a car home often gets the cop tenant a reduced rate on rent...AND a free commute???

And my final rant about police, is the PBA!!! Police Benevolent Association!!! Telemarketers calling for handouts for the police!!! In the guise of "benifits" for officers, ***? Police officers retire pretty **** good! Why would I pay for cop benifits? And why would anybody pay somebody full time wages to call around and ask for money?

Who pays for the "police olympics"?
Is a "Police Hall of Fame" really necissarry?

Im sorry for my rant, I totally appologize for breaking forum rules...but it makes me upset, there is nothing a citizen can do(vote? Give me a break!)...and as a citizen, do you feel that you can take your critisizms and complaints to anyone? And feel that they will be addressed without any reprocussions? As police, you are (almost) above the law...and there is very little that can be done to control the machine.

Rant over...and sorry.

PS They are still using empty cruisers as decoys on I-95, 4 months later!!!

Once again sorry for the critisizm, but these are agencies in dire need of reform!

...and I have nowhere else to vent my frustrations about this...so sorry.

Your point:

1-2. When you go to the...insert place...here, and you get bad service, do you not still get your service? Yep. You may not like it but you still got it. You may not like how your interaction with the police went but the outcome was the same.

3. I never went into a store w/out the money to pay for ANYTHING. Although some stores give you free refills or free coffee, this should not be expected and therefore is not "my right" to complain.

4. Huh? I am only attempting to explain some of the behavior and reasons for it. My real gripe here is that we are only hearing one side of the story. As everyone knows, some things get embellished a little. Before you critize on some issues, I feel that it is your duty to atleast partially understand them. Also, many times officers are critized for a split second decision by a group of people who have had months to analyze every angle. I'm not saying that the cops have a right to not be critized.

5. Do you have children? If so, who do YOU tell them to go to when they need help? Who do YOU call for help? Today's Law Enforcement is the "kinder" and "gentler" kind actually and are not nearly as "brutal" as days past.

6. Absolutely ridiculous statement. No crime is victimless. Read up a little on this one. I potentially saved a life with every car I stopped, especially for a moving violation. It depends on your point of view.

7. See answer to #3. If the restaurant saw fit to "give" us a meal, then the waitress got a really good tip. And by the way, this practice is "allowed" as long as the "vendor" provides the same service to all Law Enforcement and EMT's and Firefighters.

8. Quote your stats but they mean nothing without something to back them up. I had a "take home" car but I was also subject to call 24/7. Twelve hour shifts let people "see" the car more during the off period but unless you have some scientific proof of this phenom, then post it. Every state is different, as are jurisdictional boundaries.

9. I have no comment as this is specific to your state. Most fundraisers are just that. Do you get that bent out of shape when your local politician comes calling? The cops in your state may retire well but would YOU put your life on the line for $12.22 an hour? A lot of people do. A police Hall of Fame is more than justified, IMHO. Like a War Memorial or Tribute to 911, these officers gave their lives so that you can have a somewhat, albeit not perfect, better world.

Cops are not perfect and I am not arguing that they are, by any means. There are bad apples and they need to be weeded out.

wantin150 · Jul 26, 2006

quote:

Originally posted by ShortBuSX:

quote:

And FYI, cops don't "get away" with attitudes. They get complaints and then they get lashed at by their supervisors. Too many complaints and it could be IA or suspension or dismissal. And to try to set something straight, many of those "complaints" are just a way to try to get the officer in trouble because the person got ticked they got a ticket. I had someone try to ruin my career over such a complaint. Video and audio don't lie.

Click to expand...

quote:

Originally posted by wantin150:
Jimbo,

My big thing is that you have no reason to gripe about officer's attitudes unless you are willing to follow through.

Click to expand...

Why complain or follow through? When its a "cops word" against the accused? Its already been stated that in a court of law everybody takes the cops word over the person who "rarely even sees a court room" or doesnt know the workings of the system...you even have the ability to speak in public on your side.

And who would take a person whos being arrested or ticketed's testimony over a cop? Youd totally have to be innocent, never convicted, never arrested...youd have to be a nun or a monk!(or a real moron!)

I take your challenge "to follow through" almost a taunt, a thumbing of the nose...a future plan of revenge/retalliation for the complaint. Really, whos going to complain but the insainly stupid?

And for the cop who said "its not like we are out to get you"...that statement is truely laughable in soooo many ways!!!

Re-read that last line: "Video and audio don't lie." Although not all officers have them yet, many do. If your complaint is valid, it will be on tape. There are citizen watchdog groups out there. Use them.

And a point to ponder: Do you really think I am going to waste my time setting up on you? Man, I had a whole county to patrol. Not "you", you, but you really mean nothing to me. You are a statistic. Do you know how many people I interacted with on a daily basis? Do I really care to remember you? See, I made notes on my tickets, just so I could even try to recall your attitude and/or behavior. I was particular about certain things. It is amazing how things change over time and the number of people you relate a story to. Many of the people who showed me attitude then came to court wanting my help. Why did I help them, because this isn't personal, just business. They may have just had a bad day.

You are also confusing the system. A JURY trial is a JURY of your peers. There are either 6 or 12 people, JUST LIKE YOU, deciding your fate. Hmm... looks like better odds than 1 Judge.

Gary Allan · Jul 26, 2006

Video and audio don't lie.

I think this has reigned in many would be brutes. It's kinda hard to argue with from either end of it. Big Brother is watching both of you.

farrarfan1 · Jul 26, 2006

I only stopped in to see if there was any update to Bio-T's medical conditon and then saw this topic. The only thing I got from this "discussion" is that starting a pointless topic based on incomplete, unverifiable data, presenting one side of the issue ( second hand from neighbor and son) and asking a question that has no answer in order to draw out angry responses and blanket condemnation to affirm your (belief?) (feeling?)towards a segment of society (police officers) isn't limited to the new members.Apparently veteran members are willing to look at half the story and draw conclusions.

Yes I've been there. State Trooper for 27 years.

Wantin150 you have much more patience than I do. Stay safe and save your energy for the next shift.Your wasting a lot of it trying to make your points.

XS650 · Jul 26, 2006

quote:

Originally posted by farrarfan1:

Wantin150 you have much more patience than I do. Stay safe and save your energy for the next shift.Your wasting a lot of it trying to make your points.

Quite a few of us have been around long enough to have experianced at least one richard cranium cop. Unfortunately, they are much more memorable than the majority who are doing a decent to danm good job.

To those of your serving honorably

ShortBuSX · Jul 26, 2006

quote:

Originally posted by wantin150:
6. Absolutely ridiculous statement. No crime is victimless. Read up a little on this one. I potentially saved a life with every car I stopped, especially for a moving violation. It depends on your point of view.

If thats what you have to tell yourself to make it through the day then so be it.*shrug*

Conversely on the "moving violations" bit...then how do you explain high speed pursuits? Potentially saving lives or endangering them?

quote:

7. See answer to #3. If the restaurant saw fit to "give" us a meal, then the waitress got a really good tip. And by the way, this practice is "allowed" as long as the "vendor" provides the same service to all Law Enforcement and EMT's and Firefighters.

The statement wasnt a reflection on how well of a tipper police officers are, but moreso the world is your oyster, given gifts and charities abroad.

quote:

8. Quote your stats but they mean nothing without something to back them up. I had a "take home" car but I was also subject to call 24/7. Twelve hour shifts let people "see" the car more during the off period but unless you have some scientific proof of this phenom, then post it. Every state is different, as are jurisdictional boundaries.

YOU were on call 24/7...but that says nothing for the rest...and the burden of proof that you require is not unlike the cop who runs the red light..."prove it"...and your "jurisdictional boundries" tells me that many jurisdictions allow this...and my ex girlfriend's parent that worked at the jail as a guard, or a distant relitive of mine which is a Sherrif.

quote:

9. I have no comment as this is specific to your state. Most fundraisers are just that. Do you get that bent out of shape when your local politician comes calling?

Are you telling me you are not familiar with the PBA? You know the people that give away the "get away with speeding for free" stickers?(not that they actually work as desired)

quote:

The cops in your state may retire well but would YOU put your life on the line for $12.22 an hour? A lot of people do.

Starting pay??? Certainly youre not topping out at that...so the point is moot. Does this $12.22 include any benifits? Sick days? Vacation time? BTW officers arent "drafted"...its a choice thats made, if the pay aint great, dont apply.*shrug*

quote:

A police Hall of Fame is more than justified, IMHO. Like a War Memorial or Tribute to 911, these officers gave their lives so that you can have a somewhat, albeit not perfect, better world.

Ironiclly, the PHofF is corrupt and has a problem managing thier monies.(dont believe me, google it.)

As for the Police Olympics, get back with me on that one...I know police officers from all over the country come to Florida to compete. Now Im gonna say, I dont know about this, but I seriously doubt all of these cops are taking the week off, unpaid, and that the week isnt all inclusive.(this is an assumption though)

quote:

Cops are not perfect and I am not arguing that they are, by any means. There are bad apples and they need to be weeded out.

[/QB]

I know not all cops are bad, and if I needed a cop to come to my house for an emergency that the services would be appreciated...but I still feel that this is an agency that needs reform!

Once again sorry...Im really just looking for a better understanding, and if I am wrong to correct my ill thinking.

[ July 26, 2006, 03:20 PM: Message edited by: ShortBuSX ]

For the traffic enforcers out there

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