For the traffic enforcers out there

[Gary Allan]

My neighbor just got a ticket and the officer acted really mad at him. He got it reduced in the local judge's office at the hearing ..but the cop still just acted "mad".


Now- this attitude I never quite understood. One time, I had a 3 year expired emissions sticker (valid safety inspection sticker) that I had been driving around with for ..well ...3 years. No one cared. PA was scoffing at the feds and there was no pressure to enforce it

.

Anyway ..I happen to be spied by a rookie and I get pulled over. His vetran partner walks up and basically yells at me in some miserable attitude. I'm thinking to myself "There are brands of decaf that taste just as good as the real thing." and basically ignore his affect that had me imagining a perpetual hemeroid condition that was always inflamed. This wasn't a "criminal act". It was a traffic stop.

So, to our finest members, just what makes you treat every traffic stop like you're encounting public enemy #1?

Now to be fair. I've also had a cop see me and another car skin a redlight and I was the last guy through. I got stopped and he says "What do you think I should do here?" ..I respond, "Well it depends on if you need a pinch. You know, it's been a couple of weeks since you've written a ticket ..the Sgt. is on your case so you need a target of opportunity." The guy laughes and says have a good night and don't run anymore redlights.


But this guy was obviously RARE.

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

Gary, I think it's a lot less rare than one might imagine.

It only takes a few cretins to pollute the perception we have of a whole popultion.

I really believe this, but it's only an opinion.

 

[Gary Allan]

Well, I've found this less in larger organizations. For example, in our borough ..every cop is pretty much "calm". Not abrasive at all. Now in the surrounding townships, they tend to be "ramrods". My son was following a friend to his house and when he turned the corner (semi-rural area) his rear tire goes slightly off the road. The guy pulls a 180 and pulls him over. Basically gives him a radical hard time...continually ..repeatedly asking him if he was drinking. A fellow officer shows up and then he shoots the breeze with that guy for about 20 minutes and then hassles my son some more ...and finally lets him go. This served no legit purpose whatsoever ...and merely proved that any kind of maladaptive misfit can be a preditor on either side of the law. These types don't deserve that type of authority.

 

[MarkC]

A uniform, badge, and belt full of weapons can turn the weak and insecure into swaggering tin gods in short time.
Ideally, there are enough of the "good" kind of cop to snatch these degenerates back into reality.

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

Gary and Mark, no doubt that people who crave power should not possess it.

 

[Alcibiades]

I concur with Groucho and would put it thus:
Power does not corrupt; rather, it attracts the corruptible.

By that I do not mean that all cops fit that bill. In fact, I think a large majority do not.

Nonetheless, here is a story about one that fit it perfectly.

I was going to meet some family in Savannah GA, about a 5 hour drive from where I am. About an hour outside of Athens, on the small bypass around a small town, I got pulled over. I knew I was speeding, 68 in a 55 zone, which is exactly what he quoted me from the radar. I told him I had no wish to argue, that I knew I was guilty, that I'd take the ticket and pay it promptly. He asked where I was going and why, and I told him the truth, no excuses. He said he was in a good mood and would only write a warning so I wouldn't have to report it to the insurance co. I said, "Thank you, sir, I appreciate the kindness," and waited for him to do the paperwork. I thought I was just being nice and luckily getting out of a ticket, but evidently he thought I was TOO nice, so when he handed me the warning he asked if I'd ever heard of the problems of gun and drug trafficking. I gave him a confused look, which he took to be suspicious, and he asked if he could search the car. I knew he could impound it and wait for a warrant if I exercised the right to say no, and I knew I had nothing to hide, so I said, "Yeah, sure." I was a very scruffy looking undergraduate driving a filthy '88 VW Fox with probably 50 empty cigarette packs and other trash all over the floor, so it took him over an hour to search through it all, while I stood there chatting with his very amiable partner. During all this, a state patrol car pulled up; they, too, were amiable. When I prodded them as to why they wanted to search my car, they would never say. Of course I knew that to them I probably looked like a weed head and was of course coming from a town famous for its weed heads, and was sure he was looking for some reefer hidden in the car. (Believe it or not, I never was into that stuff.) After a while, he asked for my key so he could open the trunk, and after he had it opened he said, "There's a leak in here." Reflexively, I lurched forward and worriedly said, "You smell something?" As soon as it was out of my mouth I knew how awful it must have sounded, but all I meant was that I was afraid he meant a gas tank leak. It was only dank water from a rain about a week earlier that had leaked into the trunk. Unlike the other three officers present, he struck me as truly menacing, and did not strike me as wise enough merely to ACT menacing. He put a hard look on his face and said, "Why you so nervous, son?" I wanted to SCREAM at him, "Because I'm going to be late for the #*%&^#* Savannah Symphony concert, I've never had my car, house, or any other $*#&% thing searched by anyone before, and I don't know you or why you're doing this! This is like a ******* Kafka novel!" (It ocurred to me in an amusing aside as I was thinking all this that any reference to Kafka might de facto actually land me in the local jail.) Before I could actually say anything out loud, one of the state patrollers said, "Cops just make you nervous?" Wanting to get back on the road, I just said, "Yes." They told me to slow down and let me go. I suppose it could have been much worse, and today I laugh about it, but at the time the one that wanted to search the car really angered me. The other three were quite cool, though.

Sorry this is so long. I just think it's funny.

 

[TheTanSedan]

(That's what comes of naming yourself after a famous turncoat).

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by Gary Allan:
Well, I've found this less in larger organizations. For example, in our borough ..every cop is pretty much "calm". Not abrasive at all. Now in the surrounding townships, they tend to be "ramrods".

---

A neighbors son in on the local police force. This is the third small city he has worked in (all of the roughly 30,000 and low crime areas). The first one was a town about 20 miles away. He said the atmosphere was a real us-vs-them one for no good reason. The top brass were richard craniums and the lower ranks followed their example. His 2nd police job was in a town about 70 miles away. He like the Police force there but didn't want to move and the commute was killing him. He finally got on the local police force and says it's like family. We have good policing in town, but the cops are sane.

 

[Gary Allan]

Now don't get me wrong. My BIL was a cop until the pressure of a large organization on the Mainline (Lower Merion Twp - very high $$ turf) made the demands from the dept more then the demands of being a police officer. He would see another unit on patrol and stop and talk with the other officer and then get asked what was he doing by his watch commander. Very authoritarian organization. I got him another job and he now is an administrator of some type in a Florida Hospital (he advanced to that level on his own from the job that I got him). One of my best friends is a retired Penn State Trooper and I've known many through him.
[side note]

If you want to know what my BIL was like. He was kinda like "Chet" (Bill Paxton) in Weird Science. Torturing his younger siblings as Top Offspring. He kinda liked interacting that way ...became a cop.

[/side note]

But I'm not really talking about the Napoleans with a badge. I was just curious on why some officers insert "anger" into something as routine as a traffic stop. It sure seems like a waste of earnest emotion when there are so many instances of traffic violations. I mean if a cop sets a speed trap ...he knows that he will indeed catch someone (most likely) ..hence I don't understand why he's all that mad about it.

I'm just wondering (and I'm not being funny here) if there's some "official intimidation" course that they take that teaches them how to insert anger into the mix there ..adding a punitive measure to the event

 

[Dan4510]

in my opinion this comes from training that focuses on control to the exclusion of everything else. I have been subject to this. State trooper stopped me and when I signed the ticket, my hand shook because I am diabetic and my blood sugar was low. He then proceeded to drug profile me and asked to search my car. I told him i would not give him permission and he promptly started screaming that i was hiding something. Result, drug dog was run around the car and the cop who did it made the dog bark. The resulting thrash found no drugs, as I knew it would. The trooper kept coming back to the car yelling that i was goign to jail. Kinda hard to do that when you cant find drugs. Took three cops and 2 hours nearly and I nearly passed out from needing food and asking for food i had in my car and was ignored till I went to my knees shaking. I requested badge numbers and names and was ignored.

Another time was stopped for speeding after a car whizzed by me while i was at the speed limit. Got pulled over and cop was yelling at me from teh time he stepped out of the car. I told him he needed to get control of himself or I would be down at his station and have his job. He settled down but still wrote me a ticket, even when i was at the speed limit.

Good cops are good, bad cops stink up everything. When one yells at me and is out of control, it makes me sure that they are just another bulley, but with the power of the state to justify their actions.

THere also seems to be training to make them very aggresive. The problem with this is that it only abuses a normal person and will set off a crimainl. Normal people wont cause trouble and no matter how you act, criminals will do what they want. Leads me to believe that the ability to discern who will do something and who will not is lost and its just "guilty till proven innocent" that rules now.

I used to be a very pro police person, but after these experiences and a couple others not noted, I would not pisss on one to put him out if he was on fire.

Dan

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by Gary Allan:

I'm just wondering (and I'm not being funny here) if there's some "official intimidation" course that they take that teaches them how to insert anger into the mix there ..adding a punitive measure to the event

---

The job attracts power hungry little ********. Some police departments weed them out... and some are run by power hungry little ******** and encourage the lower level officers to be the same.

 

[Alcibiades]

There are jerks, quacks, and ne'rdowells in every profession. I think maybe it APPEARS worse in cops because of the legal authority they can exercise.

There have been some situations in which I was definitely happy to have them nearby.

"That's what comes of naming yourself after a famous turncoat"

--Maybe you're right! Actually, take a close look at Plato's "Symposium." Alcibiades' outburst at the end is classic, and is the only act of truthtelling in the book. That's why I chose the name. Plato was very devious in his writing. Good stuff.

 

[MarkC]

Not that this necessarily epitomizes all police officers, but half a dozen people I went to High School with became cops. In school every one of them was a bully, a loser, or both. About 80% of the ones I used to have in my karate classes were jacks.

 

[Evil Ron]

Law enforcement agencies are aware of "adverse selection". This is when people who desire a particular position are not the best candidates for that position. Occasionally, the weeding processes misses some.

 

[Pablo]

The beatings were much more frequent when I looked like a hippie.

 

[Gary Allan]

quote:

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so it took him over an hour to search through it all, while I stood there chatting with his very amiable partner. During all this, a state patrol car pulled up; they, too, were amiable.

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It may be that if one of the other officers stopped you ..HE would be the nasty one and the other officer, along with the other two, would be the friendly guys. They were trying to falsely befriend you and gauge your reactions to the nasty guy's pawing through your stuff.

It may very well be like a sales organization in the showroom. "Who's up?" for the next customer ..so to speak. Except whomever is the stopping officer is always "who's up". The rest just provide "supporting cast members".

If ever asked if I mind if they searching my vehicle, I really want to respond, "Why, yes, I do mind" ..or just remain silent. Not necessarily wise ..but it really would irk me to be treated like a criminal for wanting to exercizing my rights. Why have them if you routinely surrender them

 

[moribundman]

quote:

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He was kinda like "Chet" (Bill Paxton) in Weird Science.

---

I mostly remember Kelly LeBrock, but also ""How about a nice, greasy pork sandwich served in a dirty ash tray?"

 

[Drew99GT]

Gary Alan mentioned Weird Science (one of my favorite movies).

Gary, you are hella da bomb

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

"Yes officer" and "no officer" are the best way to handle any dealings with police.

I hate to say it, but responses that fall short of this could get you into a large hassle.

I try to impress this upon all younger people in my life. It hasn't gotten through 100% and some hard lessons have been learned.

 

[wantin150]

How many of you who responded are actually cops and have the first hand knowledge and right to respond about who does what and how?

How many of you have been through the "Police Academy" or any type of Law Enforcement training? Any tactical training?

I don't think that this thread started as a true "bash the popo" topic but it has quickly turned to that with the one sided horror stories of the corrupt and the bad and the ugly.

You guys have bad days? Yep, that's right, cops do to. Maybe the guy had an important case thrown out because someone forgot to cross an "i" or dot a "t". Maybe the guy just found out that one of his buddies was hurt, killed, assaulted, etc while on the job. Maybe he didn't even get a chance to eat lunch or dinner that night. Maybe he just spent 2 hours doing a report for a $5 mailbox. Maybe he just worked a bad accident where a child was injured or a family was destroyed.

A friend of mine was murdered during a "routine" traffic stop. He was shot point blank numerous times. He managed to call for help before he died. He was married on 10-31-98 during Patrol School and died on 12-06-00.

http://www.thebloodconnection.org/testimonial_nicholson.htm

This type of situation causes one to re-evaluate his approach and become more cautious (aggressive to some). Another Trooper, Mark Coates, lost his life being "nice". He too, made a frantic call for help while the life blood ran out of him.

Even if the situation isn't within your department or state, every officer fatality or serious assault hits home. ANY day on the job may be your last. This is something all officers accept and understand and do their best to prevent.

We had a road check one time and as I was speaking with the driver of a stopped car, something made me look behind me. As I did so, some drunk failed to notice the check and locked it up. 10 seconds, maybe less, difference and I wouldn't be here typing this. He totalled his truck and the car at which I was standing. I wasn't exactly the nicest or calmest "Officer Friendly" to him.

Some of you guys have NO IDEA what it is like to walk up to a violator's vehicle. And although a speeding ticket may not be a "criminal" act in your minds, it is a violation of the LAW. How many other "criminal acts" resulted from a "routine" traffic stop. How many millions of dollars and tons or drugs taken off the street from cracked windshield or expired inspection stickers or improper tags?

I was lucky, I didn't have to fight much. Never had to shoot anyone and never got shot at. I attempted to deal with people the way I wanted them to deal with a member of my family. I had bad days. We all do. Get over it and move on. We expect these guys to go out and do a tough job day after day. They get cursed at. They stand for sometimes hours in all kinds of weather directing traffic. They get abused in court. And they are supposed to do this with a smile on their face 24/7? I don't think so. I won't apologize for anyone's behavior except my own sometimes but I absolutely can't stand to hear only one side of the story.

And one more thing, It's nothing personal, it's just a job. "You" are nothing more than a number to me. I am not here (in this case) to be your friend. I am not "Pal", or "Buddy", or "Friend". You don't know me. I don't know (or want to know you beyond this stop) you. You did something wrong and I am going to do my job. That's it, nothing more.